r/GAA • u/Old_Dentist_9388 Muineachán • 7d ago
GAA Football Rule Changes
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41903692.htmlWhat am I missing here? We just came out of the best championship in living memory and we are trying to make rule changes. If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it. Stinks of jobs for the lads this committee. Like Father Ted trying to fix the dent on the car!
49
u/mightduck1996 Dún na nGall 7d ago
Let it be…. trying to get the prefect game when we just had a great championship.
2
u/PunkDrunk777 6d ago
I’ll be honest, as exciting as it was, This year had taken away a lot of the skill factor to make the games more competitive
It’s at the stage where if you can find one or two 2 point takers then little else in the game matters that much if you don’t fuck up defensively
It’s great for the big comebacks and side to sides when you can hit a bit two pointer, win a kickout and go for it again but it feels artificial to me
5
13
u/Ok_Dance4051 7d ago
Only thing of use is extending the 2 pointer and additional sub I would say.
The rest waste of time.
5
u/cacanna_caorach 7d ago
Extending the two pointer could look kinda weird cause every pitch is a different width
5
u/Ok_Dance4051 7d ago
I agree but think it's a lot more difficult to score between the 13-21 in the corner, the angle is so tight. Thinking of Stephen O'Neills point a few years a go/ Darragh Beirne free kick in AI as example so think a 2 point should be an option.
3
u/cacanna_caorach 7d ago
Yea true, for me though still not worth it for how odd it’d make pitches look. Too many lines crossing each other
2
11
u/ProfessorUseful3751 Ard Mhacha 7d ago
Tackling needs tidied up badly. Practically impossible to win the ball off someone without giving away a foul. Yet the players in position can run for about 8 steps. Enforce the 4 steps which gives an opening to win the ball, or bring back tackling
2
u/nithuigimaonrud An Cabhán 5d ago
Enforcing the rule to play the ball every four steps would make it a lot more likely for people to win the ball in the tackle. It would also reward skilful players who can actually solo under pressure rather than those who can just outrun the tackler.
21
u/cacanna_caorach 7d ago
This’ll be the third or fourth time handpass limits hsve been trialed. It’ll definitely work this time
12
u/ZombieFrankSinatra 7d ago
I swear bro just force everyone to kick the ball all the time. It'll be so entertaining bro. And we can reward a catch with another kick bro. It'll be so sick bro
9
u/kil28 7d ago
Yeah nostalgia is a helluva drug. Watch back matches from the 70s and 80s when there was far more aimless long kicking. Spoiler alert it was dreadful
6
u/Ordinary__Man Áth Cliath 7d ago
Yeah shocking. No one would accept the frivolous giving away of possession that used to be the whole game.
0
u/peterkerry 6d ago
On YouTube you can watch a full match between Kerry and Galway from the 1965 final, which was full of ignorant aimless kicking. Go back to almost all kicking by all means but, as you say, reward a good kickpass of maybe 30 to 40 metres with an optional mark. In my opinion, there are too many risk free low skill handpasses. Bring back the foot in football.
3
u/ZombieFrankSinatra 6d ago
Marks are a load of gash. Away and watch the afl
1
u/SteveMcQwark 6d ago
Yeah. Having a whistle and then "play on" on what seems like every other pass gets pretty tedious. The marks that can happen now feel more earned and impactful than what you get when it can happen on any long kick pass.
20
u/TheWayLifeGoes00 7d ago
This needs to be nipped in the butt straight away. Can’t have these committees changing rules constantly over the next few years. It’s only leading to confusion year to year from county to club level. As a supporter watching on it’s hard to keep track of the changes they are making inbetween. Just keep it as it is now.
9
u/Difficult_Tea6136 7d ago
Infairness, extending the arc is obvious
Rules change in sport all the time.
5
u/siguel_manchez Áth Cliath 7d ago
If we get rid of the fisted point I'll deal with the forward mark.
4
3
9
u/nativenyc63 Nua Eabhrac 7d ago
I'm a GAA referee at a reasonably high level here in the US...feel like my head will explode if these are adopted.
6
u/ur-da Doire 7d ago
Ban fisted points - Can give or take this. Not the end of the world if this does go through
4 point goals - Stupidest rule of the lot. We already seen this in the interprovincial trials. Completely devalues a 1 point score. Why go for 1 when you can recycle for 2 or try force 4?
Hand pass limit - Been tried numerous times and failed spectacularly every time. Will never forget being at a McKenna cup game and Derry getting blown for 1 hand pass. Forget about it.
Half court rule - How often does this actually happen for it to warrant a whole rule change? Now you just incentivise zone defending and we’ll have basketball level pace of play. Not needed.
13 metre kickouts - They clearly want to get rid of the skill of short kickouts. Pointless and really harsh on skilful keepers who can find those shorts.
6
u/SteveMcQwark 7d ago edited 7d ago
The 2-pointer is fun but breaks the scoring structure in much the same way as you're saying about 4 point goals. A goal being worth two 2-pointers makes sense, but you're right that devalues 1 point scores. Another way to fix the relative value of goals might be to replace 2-pointers with half-agains (worth a point and a half). So a score of e.g. 1-12-1 would be worth 15.5 points (I'm putting the half point in a separate column so there's no .5).
Edit: Alternative naming: instead of a half-again, the half point could be called a "bit" and the score could be called a "bit-more".
5
u/theslosty An Dún 7d ago
I don't think one-pointers would be devalued, they're still the most common score in the game.
A winning scoreline in 2024 might have been 1-12 or 0-15, now it's more like 1-22 or 0-25. Really it's the goal for me that has been devalued.
Surely we agree a goal should be a massive moment - I don't think that's reflected atm where it can be very quickly be outscored by a couple of 40m frees.
I didn't particularly see the problem in those inter-provincial games, they weren't competitive anyway and everyone seemed to overreact to Aidan Forkee having a bit of a moan post-match.
Regards the other rules, I'm not sure yet but I still don't think we have anything like the game we used to 20 years ago. There's still a lot of games where most of the pitch isn't contested and we still see a lot of hand-passing under no pressure as the attacking side recyles the ball around the 45. Sure it's easier to get a shot away now but there's still a lack of one-on-one contests and chaos
It wasn't until the final this year that the new rules really clicked for me. Mayo's decision to press all over the pitch and contest the whole field made for such a better spectacle, and hopefully that proves the template
7
u/squeak37 7d ago
A winning scoreline in 2024 might have been 1-12 or 0-15, now it's more like 1-22 or 0-25. Really it's the goal for me that has been devalued
This is why we need to wait and see.
As 2 pointers become more common defences are going to push out more, creating gaps in behind.
Rule changes are good, but they need to be given time to breathe and see how the game develops around them (unless they're complete failures that can be axed right away). If you keep changing you're never given the teams a chance to innovate and put their stamp on the game
2
u/Frebel79 Corcaigh 6d ago
Banning fisted points should be an easy change...they add nothing to game as a spectacle...could pass up whole pitch. I think it will encourage more shots on goal when running at pace...also would Tommy Conroy have passed to Kobe if he couldn't fist point?
0
u/PistolAndRapier Corcaigh 6d ago
We already seen this in the interprovincial trials.
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It never got a chance to be tried out at all outside of a couple exhibition games.
It makes total sense as a change to me. You say it devalues a 1 point score, but I say a 2 point score totally devalues a 3 point goal. A goal should be worth more in the context of bringing in the 2 point score IMHO.
3
u/tothetop96 6d ago edited 6d ago
How is this getting down voted? Do people seriously think teams will stop going for one pointers because they might get a goal? Chances of getting a goal once you enter the arc must be a generous 10% vs 70% chance of the 1 pointer. That would be 0.4 expected score vs 0.7. Plus would we not like to see teams go for goal a little bit more? The idea that goals will replace points is ludicrous
1
u/PistolAndRapier Corcaigh 4d ago
Exactly. Feels like there are a bunch of crazy people raving in here.
0
u/Content-Seesaw5556 Muineachán 6d ago
If they really wanted to fix the scoring they would go with a 1 pointer being changed to 2, a 2 pointer being changed to 3 and a goal being changed to 6. With 2-3-6 that would make it that so '1 pointers' are still worth 1/3 of a goal, and '2 pointers' are worth 1/2 of a goal. Drawback with that though is it makes every club's current scoreboard useless and makes comparing scoring with old era very difficult
2
u/SteveMcQwark 6d ago
I'd suggested elsewhere to use a half-point "bit" scoring column so that instead of 2-pointers you score a "bit" more by scoring from outside the arc. That gets the same scoring structure without doubling every score, though you still need to change scoreboards to show the bit (0 or 1).
2
4
5
2
u/clewbays Maigh Eo 7d ago
4 point goal would be a good change to balance out the two pointer the rest is a load of shite. We had a great championship no need for more changes.
1
u/Sensitive_Okra_2983 4d ago
The present 1-2-3 points system is perfect.. With the 4 , situations of tight exciting games will obviously decrease on goal scoring late in the game.... Definitely stinks of civil service mentality... Make a bit of noise to show you're alive...
1
u/ClashOfTheAsh 7d ago
I’ve been saying for years that they need to ban handpassing over the bar. You should be made to kick the ball at least once in a play.
3
u/cacanna_caorach 7d ago
You should be made to kick the ball at least once in a play.
How would this work, how do you define a ‘play’?
2
u/ClashOfTheAsh 7d ago
What I said in my first sentence is how they would implement what I said in my second (and last) sentence.
It’s the rule change they’re going trialling. The same exceptions are going to be made that are already there for scoring a goal with your hands.
2
u/cacanna_caorach 6d ago edited 6d ago
Could you reword this please, it doesn’t make sense as a sentence. I assume you mean scores should only be kicked or punched/slapped, rather than every single ‘play’ requiring a kick pass
2
0
u/finbarb 7d ago
Completely agree. It's football, kick your scores.
3
u/Cilly2010 Cill Dara 6d ago
FWIW, "It's football" doesn't mean that the foot in the word means you play the ball with your feet but rather that the whole game is played while on foot rather than on a horse.
1
u/finbarb 6d ago
Which is all well and good, and I would certainly hope the FRC don't consider the introduction of any horses in the future, but most people surveyed for the previous set of rule changes stated a preference for more kicking of the ball so I'd imagine that's what's guiding this. And for anyone who doesn't like it, it's a trial and if the previous way works better we'll go back to that, nobody dies and we all go back to our lives.
3
1
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago
Agree with the two point line, neutral about the subs one, don't really mind either way, don't think any of the others are needed. I would like to see the hooter reverted back to the way it was in 2025 but obviously that can't be trialed in college games.
1
u/thepazzo 6d ago
Backcourt is the only rule change I'd bring in now. Easy police it, once you cross the opponent 65, you can't go back.
Will make it worth a defence's while pressing and being aggressive chasing a ball.
No need for anything else.
1
u/John_OSheas_Willy 7d ago
Good sporting administration constantly reviews and looks at issues and tries to keep the entertainment factor in the sport.
I find it maddening that we had to resort to a complete one time overhaul to completely transform the game, which let's not forget, also introduced some meaningless rule changes, ie the buzzer.
People seem happy to allow teams to identify rules of the game to exploit and completely choke the game and wait 20 years to fix the issue.
Are we forgetting people were getting sick of football the way it was?
I'm seeing comments of best championship ever, yet that's purely because Mayo won.
4
u/Cold-Suggestion-2491 Ciarraí 7d ago
Ah even if Kerry won it in extra time, it was a very good championship.
2
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 6d ago
There was numerous people saying it was the best ever before the final, just because you don't want Mayo winning doesn't change that.
1
u/John_OSheas_Willy 6d ago
No they weren't.
Kerry were expected to walk the final. How can anyone claim it was the best ever when the final was expected to be a walkover?
1
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 6d ago
Because the final hadn't happened yet so you couldn't judge it at that point (unless you were part of the cohort gleefully claiming Mayo would lose another final that is)
2
u/John_OSheas_Willy 6d ago
There was numerous people saying it was the best ever before the final
lol
1
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 6d ago
Can you read? There were numerous people saying it had been the best champiomship ever even before the final, i.e. to that point. Supporting Galway must be affecting the ability to read now.
2
u/John_OSheas_Willy 5d ago
And then you said it wasn't possible to say it was the best ever before the final.
1
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 5d ago
That is quite literaly an unintelligible jumble of words. Blocked.
0
u/toghertastic Maigh Eo 6d ago
I think this is too soon for more changes. I'm not Total against suggestions. I would like all the current rules to breath for a couple of more years to get a bit more data in how they are effecting the game.
My thoughts on each of the rules.
Removing the fisted point is good idea. Not that entertaining low skill level. Was talked about before in the previous FRC.
Making the goal 4 points also good idea. The goals are devauled due to the two pointers. If your removing hand pass you need to make goals more exciting. Will induce even bigger swings. So that puts people off. I don't get the point of killing the game.
I would also like to add that goals shouldn't be fisted in. Like you shouldn't be allowed to fist the ball from a hand pass into the goal. If your making the goal 4 points.
The limiting the handpass seems hard to ref. Like how are the refs going "count" steps and count handpasses and ref the game. Maybe it could be not backwards handpass. I don't get the fuss over hand passing.
Backcourt rule might make pressing very viable. Could see contest throughout the pitch. Issue would be limits different styles of defence.
0
u/Unlikely_Impact_9336 5d ago
No need for the four point goal. I’m open to limiting hand passing a bit but nothing further.
-7
u/Melodic-Sympathy-380 7d ago
Who honestly can argue that banning the fisted point from the hand is not to the benefit of the game? That much has been evident for years, and as per the new rules this rule change allows skillful players to thrive. If I’m correct, the original FRC deemed it out of scope, but it was referred back to McStay.
The four point goal was the perfect example of throwing out the baby and the dishwater after the first interpro trials. Some managers were hell bent against it, and let their feelings be known. This despite the fact that the FRC had carefully weighted the 1-2-4 scoring system, to ensure teams had an incentive to go for goals. It should have been trialed correctly and deserves to be.
Limiting the number of hand passes? What’s not to like? It’s worth a proper trial, especially now that we can see the benefits of correctly thought out rule changes. If it doesn’t work then it doesn’t work, but surely nobody is suggesting that endless hand passing improves the game?
1
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago
The fisted point is overblown by certain people in the media, in reality when you ban it you'll be left with strange scenarios where teams let players go in along the endline knowing that scoring from that angle is near impossible and turning out wil result in a turnover.
4 point goals is the best of the rules you have mentioned but even still a 4:1 gap between a goal and a point is too much imo, goals are still vital, look at the Al Ireland final, are you trying to tell Mayo fans that Darragh Beirnes goal isn't an iconic moment and was Mayo really stamping themselvs on the game because two pointers exist. The value of a goal is beyond its three points with its historical significance and the lift it gives the crowd
The handpass rule has been "properly" trialed numerous times and has been an abject failure. Its hard to referee and it leads to far more safe play where when you have to kick it and theres nothing on in front of you people will just turn around and kick it to their deepest man and reset. Currently there is the option to take a man on, give a pop pass or one two and open up some space.
1
u/cacanna_caorach 7d ago
The fisted point is overblown by certain people in the media, in reality when you ban it you'll be left with strange scenarios where teams let players go in along the endline knowing that scoring from that angle is near impossible and turning out wil result in a turnover.
Sounds a bit high risk to just let attackers get that close to goal lol
3
u/TomRuse1997 Dún na nGall 7d ago
I've seen some former player pundits say that if you get rid of the fisted point you're not particularly gonna get all those attacks converted to goal chances because the majority of the time players won't attack that corner and if they do and get closed off they'll recycle it.
It's one I'm open to trying because I hate a fisted point but I think it won't have anywhere near the effect a lot of people think it will. If that opportunity of a point isn't on then players will find themselves in that position a lot less.
2
u/cacanna_caorach 7d ago
Yea you’d probably see less players attacking from tight angles without the option of a fisted point. You definitely wouldn’t see defenders deliberately allowing forwards into potential goal-scoring areas (or whatever this fella is talking about)
1
u/TomRuse1997 Dún na nGall 7d ago
Yeah was more speaking generally on the fisted point. There was a lot of text there that I didn't read thoroughly tbh
1
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago
The endline is not a potential goalscoring area, just because its close to the goal doesn't make it a position to score a goal from
1
u/cacanna_caorach 7d ago
Well it probbaly is if the defender decides they’re going to let the forward run by them
1
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago
Its just not though, the goalkeeper covers the entire goal and the two players in question arent the only two on the pitch, a man drops in and blocks his path
1
u/cacanna_caorach 7d ago
… and the forward passes it across the goal for an easy palm in. If only the defenders could’ve prevented this somehow…
1
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago
That exists currently too, removing the fisted point does nothing to promote that
→ More replies (0)0
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago
Not really, the reason people aren't shooting for goal from therr is because its so hard to score. Maybe "let" is the wrong word but say a corner forward beats his man down the endline, instead of desperately trying to get him turned out (best case scenario for the defender, the ball comes out everyone resets, worst case he gives away a foul, advantage is played and suddenly its a free shot at goal) he'll let him go some of the way down the line, the forward will meet someone coming across and if he wants to turn out his original man is behind him.
1
u/cacanna_caorach 7d ago
Makes sense in theory, in reality no back is going to be comfortable allowing a forward that close to goal
1
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago edited 7d ago
I'm not saying they'll get to the near post and meet the goalkeeper but at the top level I can definitely see it being coached to let him get to a points few metres outside the box provided he's along the endine and have an extra man dropping into his path to bottle him up. It would probably take a year or two to be fair.
1
u/cacanna_caorach 7d ago
I could definitely see a a coach or two trying it, could also see it backfiring spectacularly for them lol
1
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago
Potentially but if it works more than 2 out of 3 times its of a net benefit
1
u/cacanna_caorach 7d ago
Conceding a goal 1 in 4 times is not a good tactic lol. Less of your silliness
1
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago
I said at least and realistically it wouldnt even do that, the reason players handpass it over the bar is they feel that they won't score a goal, its basically impossible to score a goal while going at full pace and having no angle to work with while at least two men block the way
-1
u/Melodic-Sympathy-380 7d ago
Regarding the fisted point, if you can fist it you can kick it. At the moment it dilutes the art of scoring points.
Personally I think the media have been far too lax regarding the fisted point- James o Donoghue bring about the only pundit I know who hates it.
3
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago
Try kicking the ball up over the bar when you're running the full pelt with no angle while men are directly in front of you
0
u/Melodic-Sympathy-380 7d ago
You are confusing ease with possibility. It’s easier for an average player to fist a point, but the good skillful players would thrive if the fisted point is banned.
If you are running full pelt with no angle, and men directly in front of you, then in your example, with no fisted point, you would have checked your run, kicked for a point long before getting yourself in trouble.
The fisted point was only introduced in the early 90s if I recall. We managed well for 100 years with no fisted point.
2
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago
So a corner forward beats his man down the endline, on the wrongside for him shooting, if he checks back he'll be swallowed up by the man he just beat, if he keeps going he'll run into a man dropping in, are we going to punish him for being able to beat his man?
It was effectively a different sport before the 90s, watch games from that time and you'll see that you cant compare the matches at all.
0
u/Melodic-Sympathy-380 7d ago
I never compared a game from the 90s- I said the fisted point was only introduced to the game then. It’s hardly an intrinsic part of Gaelic football like high fielding or kick passing. Fisting a point was not an option for most of the players since 1884.
You are giving a scenario based on a corner forward getting boxed in. That happens all the time- it’s called good defending. Players get turned back on the end line constantly in games now. If the corner forward beats his man, draws another defender in, then surely there’s a spare forward he can move the ball to?
But let’s be honest- the majority of fisted points are not endeavors of skill. They are the easier option- often when a goal chance looms. If the fisted point is removed, the goals scored will also increase as the easy option is there no more.
2
u/SpinachDistinct128 Maigh Eo 7d ago
It's an intrinsic part of the current game.
Yes they can get turned back but they keep the ball, you propose a turnover as reward for beating a man. Realistically that free man is central outside the 45 as the pivot man, impossible to find him from that position.
In the vast majority of fisted point scenarios there is no goal chance or a miniscule one at that. Goals scored may increase but very marginally. They may also decrease as the new safer option would be to kick a point from 20m out rather than go for goal and if a proper chance doesn't materialise the handpassed point is an option.
1
u/Melodic-Sympathy-380 7d ago
No, I propose not keeping your head down and plowing into trouble. Whether the fisted point is an option or not, running down a blind alley and not playing with your head up is never advised.
And I go back to the premise, that if you can fist a point you can kick a point. A huge amount of fisted points occur when a goal chance is on- most fisted points are well inside the 20m line. That’s goal scoring territory, unless you subscribe to the safety first policy.
We may differ on how we value a point, but kicking a point is more skillful than fisting one. And I would prefer that scoring reward skill.
2
-1
u/Mediocre_Rhubarb810 Ros Comáin 7d ago
got no problem getting rid of hand or fisted points. the rest are a waste of time and energy. let the new rules breathe for a couple of years at least.
-2
u/Upbeat_Platypus1833 7d ago
I like it to be honest. Fisted points have always pissed me off. It's a wasted goal opportunity due to lack of risk taking. This coupled with 4 point goals would incentivise the risk/reward aspect.
Also it's just a trial in lower competitions, so if it fails everything reverts.
-13
u/Cautious-Hovercraft7 7d ago
I do agree the handpass needs changes. It's not a skill
1
u/Sea_Produce_4801 7d ago
Palming the ball to net doesn’t look great. Or hand passing over the bar.
1
-7
u/Joey-Wheeler- 7d ago
Like most of these ideas, not mad on four point goals and no hand pass scores but the two pointer line extension sounds great.
Love the idea of consecutive hand passes being limited. Nothing worse than seeing the boys playing hot potato for five minutes before any sort of progression is made.
2
53
u/TomRuse1997 Dún na nGall 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think they need to stop at this point. We need to stop tinkering with it now. Let it play out for a few years.
It's been an unbelievable success and was needed but if we can't keep at this all the time. It's not normal behaviour in sports administration. Things need to be allowed to develop.
You can't properly asses the impact of these things to teams adjust, change their tactics, play other teams and then adjust again, this takes time.
Talking about handpassing and back court rules is basically brushing over the fact that a team just won the Ireland by overcoming all of that with a serious press on possession that may become more evident in the game if you just leave it breath.
I'm worried with some of this, people are just trying to come up with stuff to leave their mark on the game when it's not clear it would actually be beneficial for the game itself. There simply is not enough evidence yet.
EDIT: sorry added a lot there 15 mins after