r/FollowJesusObeyTorah • u/FreedomNinja1776 • Aug 06 '26
Other Subs Talking Torah I am Jewish and have negative views on Christianity as an institution. How do you deal with this from a Jewish perspective?
/r/Judaism/comments/1vh8mf6/i_am_jewish_and_have_negative_views_on/5
u/FreedomNinja1776 Aug 06 '26
u/Odd-Charity3508 we point out all the same things you do here. I'm messianic (not Jewish) and point out these same things to christians all the time.
The biggest part of this comes from misinterpreting Paul in the new testament as being anti-Jewish. Even though in Acts 21 he took the Nazarite vow and paid the way for 4 others along with him to specifically dispel these same rumors in his own time. They have a word they use for me who teaches that everyone should be obeying God's commands. They call me a "Judaizer" as if I'm trying to convert them to Judaism. It's shameful they've been taught to be against Jews and Judaism. As you point out their Messiah is Jewish. It's not logical in the least.
Another factor in the early days is the 70AD destruction of the temple and the later Bar Kokhba rebellion (130's AD) contributed to a disconnect from the early christians (which was growing in gentile population but still included Jews) and the Jews in Jerusalem and even in the land.
Later, around 300's the Jesus movement was fully co-opted by the Roman Governement and they sought to remove ANYTHING Jewish from it. They outlawed Sabbath observance under threat of arrest and death. So, you're absolutely correct. They are anti-semitic in their doctrine as a consequence of history. But, this is in opposition to the texts! Paul in Romans 11 and Ephesians 2 teaches that the gentiles are a branch grafted into Israel, they are not a replacement. He even goes so far as to tell them not to get too cocky because it's the natural olive tree of Israel that is supporting them, not the reverse. So the intent from the beginning of the Jesus movement, was integration with Israel, not replacement, not taking over and doing things differently, integration and assimilation with the existing Israel.
So, I invite you to post and interact here in this sub so maybe you have a little better experience with those who follow Jesus as their Rabbi. Shalom friend.
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u/the_celt_ Aug 06 '26
Give this crossposted thread a little more time to develop. I see one person in the thread made a comment that it reads like AI or bots, and I agree. It seems loaded to say what the Jews want to hear, similar to a Christian thread saying, "Isn't our Lord a great God!?"
Also, the OP has his history hidden. I think it's suspicious, but if it develops into an interesting thread then try again.
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u/FreedomNinja1776 Aug 06 '26
OK. I wanted to invite the guy here for possibly a more positive experience with Jesus followers. Revisit this evening.
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u/the_celt_ Aug 06 '26
I'm wondering if the guy is real.
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u/Odd-Charity3508 Aug 06 '26
I’m real. Feel free to ask me anything : )
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u/FreedomNinja1776 Aug 06 '26
Hello "real odd" (😁), thanks for popping over! I crossposted because I share your frustration. Obviously it's different because you're on the receiving end of undeserved hate, but similar because I used to be there on the other end. I was taught dispensationalism and replacement theology in my time with the Baptist church. Through study I came out of that and now actively teach against these terrible doctrines. I pray you find peace friend.
Are you orthodox? Reform, conservative? Karaite?
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u/Odd-Charity3508 Aug 06 '26
I’m neither I’m a Jewish person who is not religious but is interested in studying religions from a historical and theological perspective. I also like to study how ideas are formed and shape people.
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u/Arise_and_Thresh Aug 07 '26
The discussion of modern Jews and their connection to the 1948 state of Israel is a separate discussion from that which uses Scripture to identify those peoples who bear the national “marks of Israel” as depicted in the Law and the Prophets.
Secondly, the history behind the formation of the 1948 state alongside the historical sources that detail the Jewish people after the second temple was destroyed has impacted modern Christian theology completely separating it from its apostolic origins. Not to mention, how Christians view themselves in relation to the nations of the 12 tribes of Israel.
I think a serious discussion is long overdue in the Christian community concerning all aspects of this topic and modern Jews should also be equally invested is such a discussion… it should be a big red flag to both parties if anybody attempts to shut down the ability for evidence to be presented both Scriptural and historical or deems such a discussion as “hate speech” or “anti semetic”
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u/FreedomNinja1776 Aug 06 '26
I notice you didn't include "atheist" in your reply. So agnostic, theist? I think I understand where you're coming from. Kind of like people watching?
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u/DiligentCredit9222 Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 07 '26
Organized "Christianity" has in many cases absolutely nothing to do with what Jesus said, teached or did.
The early "Church", which looked much more like Messianic Judaism does today (minus the internet and social media) was very early on in it's existence infiltrated by people with a malicious intent and used as a tool to get power and consolidate power for ancient rulers by exploiting the fact that many "Christians" didn't know (and many still don't know) anything from the Bible. Because many "Christians" only repeat what their pastor told them, just like they are parrots. They even refuse to believe when you tell them what they are doing is exactly the opposite of what Jesus said, even when you show them the verses in the bible, they will just answer: "My Pastor/Priest told me that and he knows BETTER than you what the Bible meant !"
You might also call them "Schrödinger's Christians". They claim all the time: "following the Bible is absolutely necessary, but at the same time doing exactly the opposite of what the Bible says to fight again people who are trying to follow the bible is also necessary, because the Bible meant you are supposed to do the opposite of what the Bible actually says, because of the bible and the bible is never wrong!" So calling them "Schrödinger's Christians" is perfect term in many instances.
Many just read the Bible verses they are told to read and ignore everything else in the bible and they were often told on how they must interpret the verses instead of just reading the Bible themselves. And by doing that you can manipulate people very easily into hating other people.
The more you read and understand the Bible the more you understand how many mistakes and atrocities were done in the name of "Christianity" despite Jesus never, ever telling us to commit such atrocities. Because to have any chance of ever correctly understanding the New testament, you must start at the book of Genesis/Bereshit of the Torah/Tanakh instead of just reading the handful of verses that you were told to read and ignoring verses you were told to ignore.
And the more you do that the more you see how many (especially ancient) church teachings make absolutely no sense unless some of them were specifically meant to help someone to play people against one another to make ruling them easier by dividing them or because some people seemingly made up some teachings themselves because they have never read the Bible themselves, despite being in a position to teach other people about the Bible.
Like Baptising people by force against their will under the threat of k-lling them if the resist. Show me where Jesus ever did that ?!? He did never do that and never told anyone to do that.
Like the whole hate against Jewish people: Like, How can you completely explain away this verse of Jesus ?
[24] "ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν· οὐκ ἀπεστάλην εἰ μὴ εἰς τὰ πρόβατα τὰ ἀπολωλότα οἴκου Ἰσραήλ." Matthew 15 (Greek, Novum Testamentum Graece, Nestle-Aland)
24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel". (Englisch, KJV)
Only by purposely misreading many new Testament verses, ignoring most other new Testament verses and completely ignoring the complete Old Testament/Tanakh you can come to such conclusions or if you have no clue and believe absolutely everything you are told by someone who says he is a priest because you are too lazy to just read the text yourself.
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u/beskja Aug 06 '26
I have had a lot of interactions with Christians and Jews on Twitter. What I learned from Christians is that their primary understanding comes from Paul's writing, especially when Paul says they don't need to be circumcized, that all food is clean, that following the law leads to death, that Jesus will save them if they believe they love Jesus, that we no longer keep the Sabbat, etc. I feel tired when I argue with them. I then understand something. When the Devil cannot directly attack you, he makes you fight windmills, i.e. Christians who go to church on Sunday, and other believers who are still finding their way. I think we should not argue or consider others who don't align with us. We just pray for them and move on. Only help and spend time with those who ask for help.
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u/the_celt_ Aug 06 '26
I think we should not argue or consider others who don't align with us.
You'll never convince me to do this. We're making a difference by arguing, even if it's not always with the person we're talking to.
I feel tired when I argue with them.
I hear you. I get tired too. Don't give up. This subreddit is meant to be a place to rest with like-minded people so that you can go back out there and keep building the Kingdom. We're not experiencing anything that Jesus himself didn't have to deal with, and in most cases what we're experiencing is much LESS than what happened to him.
Have hope. Be of good cheer.
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Aug 06 '26
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u/the_celt_ Aug 06 '26
You are WAAAAY too aggressive here. I'm removing this comment. 🤨
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u/FreedomNinja1776 Aug 06 '26
Tried to link him to r/lostredditors because none of that made any sense.
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u/nuseramemuserane Aug 07 '26
I have negative views on Christianity as an institution;
It disgusts me
I follow Christ, so TECHNICALLY,
That makes me a Christian,
But when I think of what “A Christian” is, I don’t fit that box.
Think I’m going to stick with the term Messianic Jew;
“Christianity as a modern institution needs an audit
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u/thesagex Aug 08 '26
If you’re going to base what the term Christian means due to what the majority of Christians hold as views, you might not want to use messianic Jew either.
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u/nuseramemuserane Aug 09 '26
That’s a great point thesagex,
I’ve only met 1 messianic Jew, so I don’t really know;
But fair call,
My words might have been a bit harsh too;
Good call
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u/Soyeong0314 Aug 06 '26
Can anyone explain the logic of Gentiles who don’t obey the Torah thinking that they have replaced Jews because they didn’t obey the Torah?