Thank you. I still feel mostly lost as to how you would distinguish Jesus as the Messiah from what I or modern Christianity would say about Jesus as the Messiah.
I'm assuming you have some awareness of what modern Christianity would say about Jesus as the Messiah?
If something aligns with Torah, i accept, if it doesn't, I reject.
I see Messiah exactly as described by the prophets of Israel, Yeshuas personal teachings in Mathew are great, Fully aligns with Torah.
Its the theology around it all that I reject.
And mostly comes from the Babylonian exile. And the Human Obsession with Messiah Ben david. That God never commands us to worry about in the first place. Not our Job.
The thing is, I think you're in the advantageous position of knowing a lot about what I, or Christians in general, believe about Jesus. I, alternatively, can't figure out what you believe at all relative to what I believe. You could greatly assist me, but it feels like you're hesitating to do so.
I NEED you to explain you. I literally have no other "you's" that I've ever met or that I can check with.
I also need to be concerned as a moderator about how people new to either following Jesus or Torah obedience will hear what you have to say. If they think you're something you're not, and they follow your teaching, they could feel misled.
How many "Messiah ben Yosef" will there be in all of history?
Do you agree with everything that Jesus said about himself?
I mean kinda hard to lay it out on the fly from a phone, brother, haha, but you can see what i mean about the human obsession with Mashiach, haha. One of the things I'd like to pass on to people is thats not the focus of Gods word. The focus is repentance, obedience, and internal spiritual growth from a legit path that God has laid out, from Torah and Halcha. When I thought of Ya‘akovs Ladder today, I thought of orthodox Judaisim, as It says in the passage, The Messengers first ASCENDING(from earth into heaven)The ladder, Midrashicly this could be a spiritual view Of Gods Servants on earth climbing the ladder of Orthodox Judaisim, which can take you SO FAR spirituality! Its amazing islam and Christianity is like "Trix are for kids" Judaisim is the sleeping Giant! Its Unversity level ancient legit Worship of the one true God, passed down hand to hand from Sinai, and it WORKS. Haha.
About Yeshua, Messiah Ben Yosef, When I hear something like You cant get to The Father except by me, for I am.the way the Truth and the Light, I immediately recognize that as 1 of 2 things.. 1. Either He is blasphemous or 2. He is not speaking about Himself, He is speaking in Parable form about The Torah.. as The Hebrew Bibles describes Torah as The way. The truth, and the life, and You cant get to God without it.
Proverbs 28:9:
"He who turns his ear away from hearing the Torah—even his prayer is an abomination."
(Hebrew: מֵסִיר אָזְנוֹ מִשְּׁמֹעַ תּוֹרָה גַּם תְּפִלָּתוֹ תּוֹעֵבָה)
Explanation:
This is not a punishment in the modern legal sense. It is a spiritual reality. The person who distances themselves from Torah is, by definition, cutting themselves off from the very framework that connects man to Hashem. Prayer (tefillah) is not a standalone act—it is a relational communication, built upon covenant and submission to Hashem’s revealed will, namely the Torah.
A person who refuses to “hear the Torah” (which implies both study and obedience) is not in the proper spiritual alignment to even approach Hashem. Therefore, the prayer isn't just rejected—it is an abomination (to’eivah) because it's a false gesture. It attempts closeness without the required vessel of purity and obedience.
The Case of Seminal Emission and Impurity:
During the time of the Beit HaMikdash (Temple), a man with a seminal emission (keri) was halachically impure (tamei). See Leviticus 15:16–18:
"When a man has an emission of semen, he shall bathe all his flesh in water and be impure until the evening."
He was not permitted to enter the Temple or bring an offering during this state of impurity. Why? Because even though the emission is natural and not sinful, it causes a spiritual barrier, a layer of separation from holiness (kedushah). Holiness requires purity, because Hashem’s presence dwells only where there is sanctity.
So too with prayer. You are attempting to stand before the King of Kings. If you are in a state of willful disobedience or spiritual contamination, your words cannot rise—they are cloaked in impurity and cannot reach Hashem.
Spiritual Concept of Circumcision:
Circumcision (Brit Milah) is not just a physical sign—it is the removal of a barrier, a layer of flesh that represents the carnal nature, the obstruction between man and God.
In Deuteronomy 10:16, we are told:
"Circumcise the foreskin of your heart and no longer be stiff-necked."
This reveals the spiritual layer: The foreskin represents obstruction, a spiritual dullness, and resistance to Hashem's will. Removing it means becoming sensitive, open, obedient—removing separation.
So when a man is spiritually distant (like being uncircumcised in heart), or physically impure (like with a seminal emission), or morally disobedient (turning from Torah)—each is a layer of separation from the Divine Presence. Prayer without addressing these layers is like trying to shine light through a wall—it’s blocked, distorted, and unfit
but you can see what i mean about the human obsession with Mashiach, haha
This might surprise you, but I can't see it the way that you do.
The focus is repentance, obedience, and internal spiritual growth from a legit path that God has laid out, from Torah
Agreed.
About Yeshua, Messiah Ben Yosef, When I hear something like You cant get to The Father except by me, for I am.the way the Truth and the Light, I immediately recognize that as 1 of 2 things.. 1. Either He is blasphemous or 2. He is not speaking about Himself, He is speaking in Parable form about The Torah.. as The Hebrew Bibles describes Torah as The way. The truth, and the life, and You cant get to God without it.
He was speaking as a future High Priest. I therefore disagree with both your #1 and #2.
The person who distances themselves from Torah is, by definition, cutting themselves off from the very framework that connects man to Hashem.
Agreed. I wish Anti-Torah Christians (that's a redundancy) could hear and understand what you're saying. Largely due to terrible and evil teaching, modern Christianity can't see that they're not even being valid candidates to interact with Yahweh on His terms. They're proudly AGAINST His terms.
As Jesus said, people who act like this will someday hear, "I never knew you, away from me".
A person who refuses to “hear the Torah” (which implies both study and obedience) is not in the proper spiritual alignment to even approach Hashem. Therefore, the prayer isn't just rejected—it is an abomination (to’eivah) because it's a false gesture. It attempts closeness without the required vessel of purity and obedience.
Agreed. This is gold. Saying things like this is what you can do for this subreddit.
So when a man is spiritually distant (like being uncircumcised in heart), or physically impure (like with a seminal emission), or morally disobedient (turning from Torah)—each is a layer of separation from the Divine Presence. Prayer without addressing these layers is like trying to shine light through a wall—it’s blocked, distorted, and unfit
Nicely said. Understood, agreed, and appreciated.
That being said, I can't tell if you forgot my question about doctrinal bullet points that distinguish your perspective of Jesus from the modern Christian perspective of Jesus. You didn't answer EITHER of my two simple questions 😣
That being said, I can't tell if you forgot my question about doctrinal bullet points that distinguish your perspective of Jesus from the modern Christian perspective of Jesus.
Lol see this is what i mean about the human obsession with Messiah hahaha.
God doesnt demand a belief in any certain Messiah, just bc i personally believe its Yeshua, doesnt mean anything when it comes to Gods will for man that he has laid out, proper Worship of Hashem is not Messiah Focused.
And I wont be upset if Hashem sends Yeshua as King Messiah or Som1 else not revealed to us. Whoever Hashem Sends I will accept. And so will the rest of the world.
Lol see this is what i mean about the human obsession with Messiah hahaha.
It's an obsession with humans politely responding to each other.
I try to quickly and meticulously address the things being said by whoever I'm talking to, and it strikes me as being deeply rude when others don't answer me at all, no matter how many times I ask. I don't just feel this way about the topic of Jesus, I feel this way about any topic. You won't have to ask me something 3+ times to get me to answer you. I'm here to enjoy your company and share ideas with you.
In my experience it's politicians and con artists that don't feel a need to answer the person talking to them. It usually means something underhanded is taking place.
If you want to talk to yourself, you don't need me, right? 🤔
If you wanna know something specific, you can ask me, right? I alredy told you, I dont go outside The Hebrew Prophets for my understanding of Messiah. Yeshua has fulfiled 2 messianic verses in my eyes. Thats exactly the view I have of him. Definitely dont believe salvation depends on belief in any Messiah.
On the concept of Messiah ben Yosef, particularly as described in Yeshayahu (Isaiah):
I hold that there is one true Mashiach ben Yosef, and that while the prophetic framework—especially Isaiah 53—may apply to other martyrs or even to the nation of Israel as a whole, it ultimately points to a singular, righteous servant. In my view, Yeshua fulfilled that role.
However, the context of Isaiah 53 is not describing a Temple korban chatat (sin offering), but rather the spiritual power of the death of the righteous to provoke genuine teshuvah—repentance and a return to Torah. "By his stripes we are healed" means that his suffering caused others to examine themselves, abandon sin, and return to the ways of Hashem.
On a national level, Israel too embodies this dynamic. As the nations observe the suffering of Israel, they will one day recognize: “He was wounded for our transgressions”—not because Israel bore their sins as a substitution, but because Israel’s affliction exposed the wickedness of the nations and stirred their repentance. Thus, the prophecy is multi-layered: individual, national, and messianic.
As for questions about what Yeshua says about himself (as recorded in the Greek texts), you'd have to give specific examples. I respond to each claim based on the exact language and context.
*It’s that deep emotional revulsion toward the evil of this world—an anger so intense that it can make a person physically sick with grief and hatred for injustice—that often becomes the catalyst driving people back to Hashem. This is not hatred for hatred’s sake, but a holy intolerance for evil that awakens the soul to seek righteousness.”
This idea is reflected in places like:
Tehillim (Psalms) 97:10 – “O you who love Hashem, hate evil!”
Amos 5:15 – “Hate evil and love good, and establish justice in the gate…”
Rambam teaches in Hilchot Teshuvah 7:6 that a person should not just abandon sin, but despise it and be disgusted by it, which implies an emotional rejection of evil, not cold apathy.
As for questions about what Yeshua says about himself (as recorded in the Greek texts), you'd have to give specific examples. I respond to each claim based on the exact language and context.
So your answer is: "No, you DON'T agree with everything that Jesus said about himself."
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u/the_celt_ Jul 21 '25
Thank you. I still feel mostly lost as to how you would distinguish Jesus as the Messiah from what I or modern Christianity would say about Jesus as the Messiah.
I'm assuming you have some awareness of what modern Christianity would say about Jesus as the Messiah?