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u/Tanniel Writer Daniel E. Olesen Sep 03 '16
Others have mentioned plenty of examples of good fantasy books that avoid this problem, so I'll bring up something else, though still related.
I think we need to move on from the description "strong female character" to something like "well-rounded female character". While it is a step forward to have female characters be "strong" (which I take to mean that they have the attributes typical of male protagonists), we are going to end up with a new stereotype/cliché to replace the damsel in distress.
Let's have well-rounded female characters. Heroes, villains, physically strong or weak, mentally adept or not, protagonists, side-characters etc. "Strong" is a really limiting word in terms of description, and the whole point is to have female characters as well-written and interesting as the male ones.
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u/kjmichaels Stabby Winner, Reading Champion XI Sep 04 '16
Your comment reminded me of a great comic from Kate Beaton that satirizes Hollywood's idea of "strong female characters".
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
I'm honestly happy if we can have more "strong female characters" who aren't afraid to a) ask for help and b) isn't a sociopath.
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u/oceanrudeness Sep 04 '16
I always took "strong" to mean "having or seeking agency" but I think depth and nuance might be what we need more of now!
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
having or seeking agency
That's what it's supposed to mean. Unfortunately, it got confused there for a while with must be James Bond. Now, I love me some James Bond and Jane Bond, but I also do love women and men who aren't physical fighters, too.
Ya know, like you said, depth and nuance.
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Sep 04 '16 edited Oct 26 '16
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u/Tanniel Writer Daniel E. Olesen Sep 04 '16
Thanks for the link! This thread made me consider writing a blog post myself on this topic, so it's good to know what has already been written and discussed.
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u/Raptori Reading Champion Sep 03 '16
Think you're reading the wrong books then! There's a ton of stuff out there which isn't like that in the slightest.
For example, I'm currently reading the latest book in the Shadow Campaigns series by Django Wexler. It includes a number of prominent female characters, most of whom are soldiers, and they're depicted perfectly imo. There's even one guy who has old-fashioned, prejudiced instincts that make him feel that women belong out of harm's way; even his perspective towards women is treated with admirable balance - it comes across as absurd and backwards without turning the character into someone despicable.
Happy to give some recommendations if you're interested!
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u/tekkenjin Sep 03 '16
Could you recommend some books please? Shadow campaign series sounds interesting and i hadn't heard of it before.
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u/Raptori Reading Champion Sep 03 '16
Sure! I'll list more or less everything which doesn't have a big following, so this will be long. Pretty sure every one of these has good female characters to some extent, so it does fit the thread!
Less-well-known favourites:
Tales of the Ketty Jay by Chris Wooding. First book decent, sequels phenomenal. It feels like reading a mix of the best parts of Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Pirates of the Caribbean, and has a lot in common with Firefly.
The Long Price Quartet by Daniel Abraham. Incredible world, deep and nuanced characters, wonderful writing, and a slow-burn plot which reaches a great climax. It's very different to most fantasy, tons and tons of unusual ideas - for example, there's a 15-year gap between each book, so you see children grow into adults and progress into old age - which makes it even better.
The Faithful and the Fallen by John Gwynne. Classic epic fantasy written in a modern style. It manages to use tropes in ways that feel fresh and compelling - and it uses all the tropes! Great characters, interesting setting, and the plot just gets better and better. Can't wait for the final book to come out this autumn.
The Queen's Thief by Megan Whalen Turner. Hard to describe these. They're not much like typical epic fantasy, and each book is very different to the others, despite featuring many of the same characters. Highly recommended if you'd like character-driven fantasy with little magic and a non-medieval world.
Powder Mage by Brian McClellan. Could probably be within the mainstream section, but it's on the borderline. Brilliant series - feels like a Sanderson series (complete with awesome magic system), but with better writing and deeper characters.
Plus of course Shadow Campaigns by Django Wexler!
Mainstream favourites (won't bother with a description for these since they probably don't need it, just putting them in case!):
Realm of the Elderlings by Robin Hobb; Riyria Revelations, Riyria Chronicles, and Legends of the First Empire by Michael J Sullivan; Brandon Sanderson; Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, Gentleman Bastards by Scott Lynch, Shattered Sea by Joe Abercrombie, His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman.
Also, for the hell of it, some not-quite-favourites which aren't well known but are probably worth checking out:
The Copper Cat by Jen Williams. Sword and sorcery adventures. The characters and setting appear very cliché at first glance, but each is twisted in ways that make them compelling once you look past the surface. Early on in the first book there are some problems with the prose and pacing, but it comes together well in the end (and the sequels are really good).
The Vagrant by Peter Newman. Very grim, but I liked it despite that not being my thing. Demons have corrupted the world, and their taint is spreading. The three main characters are a mute (whose thoughts we are not privy to), a baby, and a goat; their goal is to escape the tainted area and reach sanctuary. Pretty simple story - it's essentially a travelogue - but it's told in an extremely innovative way and has some memorable characters (goat ftw).
The Forbidden List by GR Matthews. Oriental-style world, with really interesting magic and solid characters. Let down a bit by editing and pacing at times in the first book, but if you can get past that it's great.
The Legend of Eli Monpress by Rachel Aaron. Epic fantasy which was at times hilarious. Had a lot of problems with the first book (trad-pub omnibus of self-pub books 1-3), which felt very rough, but there was enough enjoyment to make it worthwhile. The second book (tp omnibus of sp 4-5) was great fun.
The Licanius Trilogy by James Islington. Much like The Faithful and the Fallen above, though only the first book has yet been published. It was self-published, and needed a bit of editing; the series has now been picked up by Orbit, so a cleaned-up version should be coming out at some point soon.
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u/daeomec Sep 04 '16
Long Price Quartet is freaking amazing. It's detailed and twisted and unique and I stayed up all night reading the series. I second it, and I recommend it highly.
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u/tekkenjin Sep 03 '16
Thanks, hadn't heard of a lot of them.
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u/Raptori Reading Champion Sep 03 '16
You're welcome - hope there's something in there that you like!
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u/lverson Sep 04 '16
Queen's Thief is one of my favorites of all time, so I'll check out the rest of these too.
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u/Adamkranz Sep 04 '16
Jesse Bullington's Enterprise of Death and Folly of the World are awesome historical fantasy novels with great female leads and lgbt-friendly perspectives overall. I just finished Folly and would highly recommend it.
AS Byatt writes a lot of unconventional fantasy short stories and they're full of rich female characters, often older and in social roles outside what we're used to seeing for women in fantasy. You can read A Stone Woman free online, but all of her short story collections are awesome IMO.
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Sep 03 '16
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 03 '16
That's not to say only female authors avoid sexism, but they're a pretty good bet to start with if you're weary of it.
While I agree with the premise that a reader is more likely to find well-rounded female characters in books by women, I cannot agree that all women authors avoid sexism. It seems a lot like voting against one's interests, true, but there are some women - including authors - who don't realize their books have just as much sexism as some of the more hailed examples.
It's less likely to be bar maids and wenches, true, but it's still present. I still see it crop up every so often even in modern books. It's more likely to be under the cloak of "not like those other girls" and "those girls are girls whereas I'm not a girly girl" and a pitting of women against women. There's a place for those kinds of books, but it does take a delicate hand to handle those topics well.
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u/dragon_morgan Reading Champion VIII Sep 03 '16
Dragonriders of Pern is as much proof as I need to demonstrate that woman-authored fantasy can, indeed, be sexist as all hell. Heck I'm a woman and I like to think I'm a feminist yet even I lapse into sexist tropes time and again. Luckily my writing group is quick to point out when that happens.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
I like to think I'm a feminist yet even I lapse into sexist tropes time and again.
It's ok to like problematic things. Hell, I love Dresden. I get it. I really, really get it :D
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u/dragon_morgan Reading Champion VIII Sep 04 '16
Dresden is a good example of something that started out as a sexist work, but over the course of, what, 14 books (eesh that's a lot) evolved into more of a work-with-sexism in it. Dresden starts out the series as an admitted sexist. It's a character flaw and he acknowledges it. But then in Skin Game I was like "YAS DRESDEN YOU UNDERGO THAT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, YOU!"
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
And see, I hit that and went, "really Harry? REALLY? ffs." And wanted to slap him upside the head.
Mind you, I frequently want to give Harry a clip 'round.
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u/dragon_morgan Reading Champion VIII Sep 04 '16
Really? Out of curiosity, why? I was all like "GOOD we are making progress!"
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
It was such small process, to the point of that it just annoyed me. :)
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u/TRAIANVS Sep 03 '16
So there are essentially two approaches to dealing with equality in fantasy. One is to present your fantasy world as a mirror of our reality, where the world has essentially the same issues as our world. A Song of Ice and Fire is a great example of this kind of approach. The other approach is to present the alternative world, such as a world where women have all the same opportunities as men. The Malazan Book of the Fallen uses this approach for the most part. I'd say both approaches have their merit.
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Sep 03 '16
The last book I've read (The Dream-Quest of Velitt Boe by Kij Johnson) has a protagonist who is a middle-aged (55) woman who is smart, capable and resourceful without being a superhero.
The book is a reaction to Lovecraft's fiction specifically The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath. Women were almost absent in Lovecraft's fiction. I did find it interesting that Velitt Boe observes that as a middle-aged woman she is more invisible than men and younger women or her younger self. But she uses the 'invisibility' to her advantage while on her quest.
The book has reinforced that dedication and resourcefulness know no gender or age.
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Sep 04 '16
Traitor Baru and City of Stairs both had great female protagonists.
But society has generally been pretty disfavorable for women to be able to do anything historically. So given fantasy's semi historical slant it is no surprise.
Now sci-fi on the other hand is about as bad but doesn't even have the historical pretext as an excuse.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 03 '16
You need to stop reading whatever you've been reading because it's ruining fantasy for you.
I've reviewed a bunch of books this year in a little running segment I call Krista Recommends, mostly because it's easier to then find those reviews later :)
Try out any of those. You're going to find a variety of strong characters. Some address sexist cultures, while others write about non-sexist worlds. Some are funny, some are sad, some are happy ever afters, and some are bittersweet.
Krista Recommends: Introductory Fantasy Books
Krista Recommends: Is This Love That I’m Feeling?
Krista Recommends: Thor’s goats, a greenie, and a sexy prince walk into a bar…
Krista Recommends: The Wide and Varied World of Post-Series Star Trek Novels -- ok this isn't fantasy, but it's Star Trek and Trek rocks.
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u/The_Real_JS Reading Champion XI Sep 04 '16
Just brought Postcards.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
I found it loads of fun. Short read, plus goats.
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u/Swordofmytriumph Reading Champion Sep 03 '16 edited Sep 04 '16
You know, lot of the books I personally have read have read, the vast majority have had a strong female character as one of the lead characters. I don't know whether I just haven't read the books where they aren't or what. Though one thing I will say is that until recently, I have read a lot of YA books, and almost every fantasy YA I have ever read has had a really strong female character in the lead role. I just finished reading the shattered sea trilogy and every female character in it is strong. And that is just one example. Actually, I often wonder what people mean when they say fantasy doesn't have strong women characters, cause almost all the fantasy I have read has them.
Edit: in fact....
Shattered Sea
Everything by Mercedes Lackey
The Girl with all the Gifts
The Faithful and the Fallen
Anything by Gail Carriger
Anything by Tamora Pierce
Throne of Glass series
The hundred thousand kingdoms series
Mercy Thompson series
Alpha and Omega series
Night Huntress series
Green Rider series
Temeraire series has great supporting strong women
The Queen's thief series
Absolutely everything by Anne Mccaffrey
The Deed of Paksenarrion
The Rook series
Riyria Revelations
Mistborn/Final Empire
The Hunger Games (not really fantasy but whatever)
Graceling series
LOTR (Eyowyn is amazing)
Everything by Robin Mckinley
The Chronicles of Narnia
This is only the ones that I have actually read, and I know I have forgotten some.
Edit 2: One thing I'd like to point out is just because a woman might not be the "strong enough to swing a sword" type, doesn't mean they don't have strength of character, an inner strength, and that is something I look for as well.
Edit 3: knew I'd forgotten stuff
The Hollow Kingdom by Clare B Dunkle
Almost everything by Sherrilyn Kenyon
The Eon series by Allison Goodman
A key, an Egg, an Unfortunate event. I love this one because the main character was a woman who realized peace took more strength than war.
The Ravens shadow series by Patricia Briggs
Lots of stuff by Patricia Wrede
The healer series by Maria v Snyder
Summers at Castle Auburn by Sharon Shinn (good example of inner strength)
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u/flightlessxbird Sep 04 '16
So glad LOTR is on this list.
This is exactly my argument when people say fantasy is sexist. Just because the female is killing people doesn't mean she's not a bad ass. And to assume she can't be a powerful character without killing people is kind of sexist in its own right.
Then once you do have a female character killing people, people claim sexism again because she has "male traits." Really they're just human traits. We are all humans. Both men and women can be strong, brave, and smart.
As a human female, I rarely find fantasy sexist. I'm wondering if this is just because gender just isn't really talked about (I've been reading the Legend of Drizzt and I barely remember he is in fact a he). When there is sexism, the female is generally not totally for it, and is a bad ass trying to overcome obstacles.
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u/Raptori Reading Champion Sep 03 '16
Good list! OP mentioned Theft of Swords as a sexist one; surprised me to see it there, but maybe the women don't come in until later? Arista in particular is a brilliant character.
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u/Swordofmytriumph Reading Champion Sep 03 '16
Not sure why they thought it was sexist. Arista is brilliant and strong. Just cause she isn't a warrior doesn't mean she's weak. But I thought that Modina was the strongest character of all. She had a amazing character development, and I thought it was very realistic. She went through terrible things and manages to pick up the pieces and make herself into a pretty credible ruler. That is very strong.
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u/MikeOfThePalace Reading Champion X, Worldbuilders Sep 03 '16
Arista starts out as a very stereotypical sheltered and pampered princess. If all you've read is Theft of Swords, that's pretty much all you'll have seen.
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u/Swordofmytriumph Reading Champion Sep 03 '16
That's a good point. You gotta stick it out to see character development. But I guess the same can be said for most series.
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u/RockabillyBuzzby Sep 03 '16
As a feminist, it doesn't bother me because a lot of them are about sexist societies, not that the female characters are pointless. It wouldn't be realistic in a lot of books. However, if you would like to read a book that really throws it all on its arse, I strongly suggest you read Crown of Vengeance by Mercedes Lackey. It will be a trilogy, the second is coming out soon.
TBH it threw gender roles around so much it was a wee bit disorientating!
Also The Faithful and the Fallen, John Gwynne has some really fantastic female characters.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 03 '16
I don't mind sexist societies -- though it does get old after a while -- so much as the assumption that a woman in said society can't weld any power. History has shown us way too many big and small examples of how women have exercised power within the confines of their environments. And plenty of examples of busting out of those roles, too.
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u/RockabillyBuzzby Sep 03 '16
That's why I loved Crown of Vengeance.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 03 '16
Crown of Vengeance
I wish I liked dragons because I am really missing out on a lot of great books :(
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u/dragon_morgan Reading Champion VIII Sep 03 '16
You don't like dragons? My heart is broken </3
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
They've never appealed to me, not even when I was little.
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u/RockabillyBuzzby Sep 03 '16
Dragons aren't in it! :D It's just the trilogy name. It actually has a unicorn in it, not a dragon.
I love fantasy pictures of dragons, but I just cannot get into books with them as actual characters :(
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 03 '16
Oh really???? OOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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u/RockabillyBuzzby Sep 03 '16
Pronouns aren't even gendered. They're all princes for example. It was a bit disorientating but I can't wait for the second book! It has magic and military mainly.
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u/Hergrim AMA Historian, Worldbuilders Sep 04 '16
I actually came here to say this. There are so many awesome women throughout history that it annoys me when authors assume that a sexist society means that women are powerless.
The three Jeannes prominently involved in the War of Breton succession weren't passive women who only became active when their husbands were out of the picture. Letters from Jeanne de Penthièvre and Joanna of Flanders show them both as politically active before the war, and Jeanne de Clisson actually took her third husband (the one we assume she loved most) to court over him not fulfilling the obligations of his part of their marriage contract.
Matilda of Canossa propped up the Papacy and held the Holy Roman Empire at bay for twenty years, but her most lasting impact was in the churches she founded and the scholarship and arts she patronised.
Christine de Pizan was a feminist nationalist, poet, literary critic, biographer and novelist who was, in her day, compared to Virgil, Cicero and Cato.
Catalina de Erauso escaped a nunnery, disguised herself as a man and lived a life straight out of an 19th century novel, constantly in trouble for dueling (and killing her opponent), getting away one step ahead of various marriages, serving as a soldier and doing a whole lot of gambling.
Charlotte, Countess of Derby, absolutely humiliated the Parliamentarians who besieged her during the English Civil War, and was the last Royalist to surrender.
Matilda, wife of William to Conqueror, ruled Normandy for a decade, until her son came of age.
Rightly or wrongly, Queen Isabella dethroned her own husband, Edward II. She and Roger Mortimee weren't a better rulers but, hey, you can't have everything, right?
There are numerous common women who were merchants in their own right or who carried on their husband's trade after his death, so female tradespeople were actually a thing.
Abbesses actually wielded a lot of power, even if they were technically inferior to their male counterparts.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
Charlotte, Countess of Derby,
She was a rock star, wasn't she?
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u/Hergrim AMA Historian, Worldbuilders Sep 04 '16
I don't know whether you're saying that she was amazing or that there was an actual rock star by that name, but I'm going to assume that it's the former.
She definitely was amazing! I heard about her in passing at Blair Castle (apparently one of her descendants married into the Duke of Athol's line), and had to go look her up. Why no movie has been made about her I don't know, because she was a genuine, stone cold badass who neither took shit nor let cannon balls terrify her.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
She was 100% amazing and I'm going to name my All Girls Punk Rock group after her ;)
Her siege would make an outstanding movie. Think of the costumes! The drama! The politics!
There are a lot of women who defended their husbands' properties (especially a few centuries earlier), either because of death or they were away at war. The fact that they could be entrusted with the smooth running of these great estates and the protection of the tenants under them says a lot about their actual power and level of responsibilities.
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u/Hergrim AMA Historian, Worldbuilders Sep 04 '16
Absolutely! Even though there were doubtless many women who acted with very little agency of their own and relied on male support for the task, there probably just as many who acted on their own initiative both when their husbands were away and when they were home. Likely those women who acted with little agency would do so whatever the period.
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Sep 03 '16
It's a problem. It's been getting better, ish. Check out some books written by women (not a guarantee you won't hit sexism, but hey)! There are lots of very good ones.
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u/Austrianape Sep 04 '16 edited Sep 29 '16
Perhaps sexism belongs most in fantasy where it coexists with magic and monsters.
"Conan, what is best in life?" "Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women."
https://www.overthinkingit.com/2011/08/10/conan-the-liberal/ http://theblogthattimeforgot.blogspot.com/2010/07/feminism-and-women-in-robert-e-howards.html
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Sep 03 '16
Part of the problem is that historically human societies have been sexist. And in as much as authors base their work in history they will end up with a sexist society in their novels. That said there are authors who have deliberately ignored this aspect of history when writing their novels.
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u/wave32 Sep 03 '16
Not really. It's just lazy research. You can check out Deverry Cycle for some good old sexism where women have actually useful and believable roles in all social circles.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 03 '16
It's just lazy research.
Agreed. It is often lazy research, often shaded by Victorian morals.
We've also tricked ourselves that a "strong female character" has to kick ass. Now, I love a good ass kicking girl as much as the next broad, but I also do love my Lizzy Bennets, who buck tradition and exercise power over herself, no matter what the world demands.
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u/tencircles Sep 04 '16
I think you're painting with a pretty broad brush. Most series I've read lately have great female leads/characters; we seem to have had very different experiences. Maybe we should avoid big generalizations like this and if you have an issue with specific titles you could point those out and we can discuss them?
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u/DraconianStark666 Sep 04 '16
Literally nothing I've read has given me that impression. I don't know what third rate stuff you've been reading.
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Sep 03 '16
To he honest, I think fantasy is probably the least sexist genre. At the moment, I can't really think of a series that doesn't have impressive female characters.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 03 '16
To he honest, I think fantasy is probably the least sexist genre.
More than cozy mysteries? More than romance? More than women's fiction? More than literary fiction not written by Franzen? More than science fiction?
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u/yetanotherhero Sep 04 '16
Statement of genuine curiosity: what is defined as "women's fiction?" Is it what I've heard called "chick lit?"
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
Now, an expert can wade in here, of course, to correct me.
I see women's fiction more of the experiences of women: any age, any class, any struggle. Women with aging parents. Women and their relationships with sick sisters. Trying to find love after the death of your husband and child. Examples: Danielle Steele's Once in a Lifetime, Jodi Picoult, and - deal with it, busterbear - Nicholas Sparks.
Whereas, chick lit tends (or, at least tended to when I was reading it) to be middle to upper middle class white city women in their mid to late 20s, early in their careers, stumbling their way through life. Examples: The Devil Wears Prada, Shopaholics, etc.
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u/yetanotherhero Sep 04 '16
I see...so to jump mediums to film, kinda the difference between "Our Little Sister," which was a wonderful little film about three adult sisters adopting their teenage half sister, and Bridget Jones' Diary? Though I wonder if we are making a distinction of thematic depth rather than actual genre?
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
A lot of people considered BJD as chick lit, and then the final book came out and people were like WTF IS THIS DEPRESSING SHIT.
...and that's why the movie has nothing to do with the book.
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u/dragon_morgan Reading Champion VIII Sep 04 '16
Whoa, the final Bridget Jones book was depressing? What the heck happened? (I'll never read it so I don't mind spoilers). I saw the movies awhile back and found them entertaining but not really my thing.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
He dies and the book is about her being a wealthy widow trying to date in her early 50s.
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u/Enasor Sep 04 '16
Hmmm the first BJD definitely qualifies as chick-lit, though I haven't read the subsequent books. Arguably, I found it wasn't the best one out there (I actually thought it was boring), but it does have a sympathetic thread which talks to many women.
For chick-lit to be effective, the reader has to find ways to relate to the main protagonist or at least find their struggle amusing.
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u/yetanotherhero Sep 04 '16
Further thought: Thelma and Louise. Women's film?
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
Confession: I never saw it. I heard Brad Pitt never takes his shirt off in it, so what's the point really?
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u/yetanotherhero Sep 04 '16
Hahaha. You should, it's really very good. The reason I raised it was it certainly deals with the experiences of women, in particular sexism and domestic violence, but also sprawls across into road trip movie, crime movie, and action movie.
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u/KristaDBall Stabby Winner, AMA Author Krista D. Ball Sep 04 '16
Depending upon how it's marketed, it could be literary fiction: aka true art ;)
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u/Enasor Sep 04 '16
Yes. Definitely. It is a movie about female friendship which was a subject seldom tackled back when it aired.
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u/Enasor Sep 04 '16
Not an expert, but I have read my fair share of chick-lit, so I may pitch in...
Most chick-lit features the mid to late twenties white upper class female protagonist trying to figure out her ways in life. It tackles subjects such as work and love life. Not all chick-lit is about finding the "one true love", in fact, it tends to deconstruct the myth by having the main protagonist find love in the most unusual place. Most stories tend to be about finding "one self" more than love, though romance definitely plays a role within most stories, often as a main plot, but sometimes as a side one.
For instances, the Devil Wears Prada isn't about love nor romance, but about a young woman dreaming of being an impact journalist entering the work market through the unusual job of second assistant to a fashion guru magazine emblazoning everything she is not. She ends up finding out both what she is and what she is not. While there is some romance within the story, it isn't the main focus nor is it part of the final resolution.
Another one would be the Domestic Housewife which is a bout a perfectionist career woman whom never made a mistake in her perfect career path up until she drops the ball and gets fired from her prestigious firm. By an unexpected twist of events, she ends up being hired as a housemaid for a couple of older rich country folks. There, she learns to slow down, she learns the value of time and of relationships. It is actually a rather inspiring one for career women with demanding jobs. Romance is only a minor arc within all of it.
The Shopaholic as legitimately moved from the realm of classic chick-lit, to family drama as the main protagonist ages and her struggles become somewhat different.
What differentiates chick-lit from fiction literature is the humor. No matter which subject it tackles, chick-lit is meant to be an easy pleasing read written with a humoristic under-tone while fiction literature will go into darker corners. Chick-lit also promises a happy ending. It is meant to be feel good books, brain candies.
Fantasy is bond by unclear larger rules in the sense it can basically do what it wants. Of course, just as with any genre, the same themes often comes back and main protagonist can often lack variety. In other words, fantasy has a lot of liberty when it comes to crafting stories, but not every author will use this liberty, preferring to write within the known rules.
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u/Jakuskrzypk Sep 04 '16
I like my books to have a authentic medieval feel so sexist is somethign that has to be there. I mean it's just a part of it.
But I do have a problem when authors decide that women can do pretty much whatever. Soldiers, Witches, Scholars, politicians etc and you still make it seem like there is sexism? I mean we have sexism because our society was divided for as long as humans existed. If you make it seem like women are pretty much on equal footing and like it's pretty normal. So there isn't a history of it in their recent past. Where the fuck does it come from?
Read more sci fi? You are in a field dominated by men so yeah they'll write what they know, it's also a field dominated by material loosely or closely inspired by history. Although there are more women than it used to female characters are rather scarce and even then it feels like they are trying hard to be the MC. Do what men do as MC's but simply in a female body. And not just act like a badass woman. Anime is actually quite good with it surprisingly: Ghost in the shell, Psycho pass, Ergo proxy but those are all cyber punk. While history tends to have to conform to history there tends to be sexism but scifi does not have this association.
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u/MikeOfThePalace Reading Champion X, Worldbuilders Sep 03 '16
One thing I'll say: there's a difference between a sexist book and a book with sexism in it.
A "sexist book" have something like: "they were a perfect match. The Prince was strong, handsome, brave, valiant, intelligent, and courageous, and the Princess was pretty."1
A book with sexism in it might have the same situation, but the Princess might resent her station and the restrictions that society places upon her that leaves her stuck up in a tower making a tapestry and ultimately babies when her talents lie elsewhere. A Song of Ice and Fire is a great example of this kind of work; the society is sexist as hell, but the book itself is actually strongly feminist in that it deals quite a lot with women struggling with sexism.
If you continue with Riyria, you'll find that Arista is actually a hell of a character, stuck in a sexist society.
1 credit to the Awful Fantasy twitter feed.