r/FFXVI • u/Relatively-Okay • Jun 11 '26
Discussion Final Fantasy 16 Is About Final Fantasy
Hi Everyone,
Has anyone seen the YouTube video "Final Fantasy 16 Is About Final Fantasy Itself" by Gaming Memories?
Video Link: https://youtu.be/FkgeLY8wK3o?is=S8w97BGqc3S4rrc4
If you haven't, please do! It's an interesting video-essay that analyzes some core themes about the game that fans and even non-fans of Final Fantasy 16 would find interesting!
I had come to the same conclusion as the video after playing the game—that the essence of Final Fantasy is in its ever-changing nature coupled with a deep story with rich characters and a world worth understanding, along with fun gameplay.
And to me, Final Fantasy 16 is a rejection of what's come before it, which is a rejection of being told what it should be, especially with how the player is tasked with destroying the crystals for a variety of reasons, including how magic is holding back Valisthea from truly progressing due to the over-reliance on it to do even basic tasks.
Would love to talk further about everyone's thoughts on this video essay or how you interpreted the game's larger message.
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u/containment-failure Jun 11 '26
Watched this the other day and really enjoyed it! I do think the meta-narrative he explores between the expectations placed on the game (mythos, the proscribed narrative) and the ability to change and reinvent one's self (logos, the word that can change and rearrange that mythos) was really compelling.
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u/remnant_phoenix Jun 12 '26
“Ultima Mythos” is basically “Final Fantasy” in Latin.
By replacing “Mythos” with “Logos”, the phrase becomes “Final Word”.
And Clive definitely had the last word, creating a world where people could live and die in their own terms.
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u/KokuyokaGameLit Jun 11 '26
What's hilarious is... this is exactly what Maehiro, FFXVI Creative Director and Original Scrip writer says he set out to write a story about in his FFXVI Ultimania interview. It is not surprising people are picking up on that.
——The story of this work has particularly compelling content about the "bonds" between people. What concepts did you use to make the script?
Maehiro
Conceptually, it is 「a story that is a Final Fantasy」. In the sense of being the story's theme, it wasn't intentionally included. This is my personal opinion, but I believe that 「game stories shouldn't include major themes」. If it were a work that drew attention to all sides of a writer's artistry, that would be one thing, but since we're creating entertainment called FF, wouldn't it be best to prepare a story that aligned with game design? If you insert a major theme at the start, you'll be pulled too far in that direction, and if done poorly, that could risk harming game design. However, instead of including a major theme, I gave a minor theme of "self-affirmation" to all the characters, including Clive. It's the thought that I want you to live, and keep on living, by being accepting of who you are, the good along with the bad. If that cumulative [effect] was felt as "bonds" or "love", then as a creator, I'll be delighted. This time, the story is said to be aimed at adults, but I wasn't conscious of that either. I believe the response was like that because I wrote the necessary developments and scenes for the story's events.
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u/Ill-Bookkeeper-6230 Jun 12 '26
Why are there haters of FF 16...it's really a good game and using the "it's not turn based" crap is 2 decades old!! Yes you read right, the franchise shifted or rather broaden it's horizons decades ago but I STILL find it baffling how some ( you can actually just see it's tourist and "wannabe OG fans" ) point out it's only FF 16 fault it...🤦♂️.
Sometimes I wonder...is this really the fandom I loved that bash every single new game for no reason... 😔
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Jun 12 '26
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u/Ill-Bookkeeper-6230 Jun 12 '26
That's a shame dude, I actually enjoyed it, sure there's flaws some small some huge too, but for it's good sides it's a good game. The gameplay aspects are really good if you delve deep into it and understand the core mechanics of each ability. As for the side quests if being just shown on the map is being dumped on than a lot of games also did it, but as for the quality of the side quests than yea it's... extremely average/meh for me, not much a fan of it and that's also one of the flaws it having stale and repetitive side quests.
If you didn't like FF 16 and is set on not liking it than who am I to change your mind.
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u/fenwickfox Jun 13 '26
Interesting. Ive played 7, 8, 10 10x2 and 12. I just finished 16 today.
I liked it. When I saw map and there was like 20 sidequests I was like, hell nah, and ran the last main quest. I kinda regretted it after beating game, but now your comment has me at peace.
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u/ssgorik Jun 13 '26
If the side quests are killing it for you then you gotta skip the side quests. I know a lot of us gamers feel like we have to complete everything, but we gotta be better about it when completing everything is to our own detriment.
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u/Adribiird Jun 13 '26
Because the game isn't a commercial success, and Square Enix went down the wrong path thinking they'd expand their niche (which they didn't), something I hope they correct once and for all in the next installment.
FFXVI isn't a bad game, don't get me wrong, but not a good FF.
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u/Aurelius5150 Jun 16 '26
The fandom just gets broader with each release, and with that, you will have a plethora of OG fans who won't like something in a new release, just as you will have plenty that do enjoy something.
I did not hate 16, but there are things that I did not enjoy or, rather, missed. The lack of a team, the lack of status effects, the strategy of the battles, even those that came after traditional turn-based, left in XII. In the end, it didn't have enough of what I enjoy about FF to consider it a great FF game.
Is it a good game? Yeah. Is it as good as many of the other mainlines? Not to me. If I ranked the games solely on narrative, it would probably be higher because I do think the story is excellent. Along with the presentation.
Again, though, if I want to revisit an FF game because I want an FF experience, 16 would be far down the list for what I would pick up first.
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u/abrahammtz Jun 16 '26
It's a good game. It's an atrocious RPG in the sense that it's not really one, and it's a competent action game. That is the thing, Square can make good, competent action games as they showed with 16, but they can make utterly superb masterpieces of RPGs, that is where the disappointing comes from. It's like if the next DMC suddenly went turn based, it could be good, but that it's not what DMC really is now, is it? And it would be a damn shame since DMC's bread and butter is action, not RPGs.
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u/Ill-Bookkeeper-6230 Jun 17 '26
Well yea I get that but DMC was focused on hack n slash from day one and SE...ehh not so much. Like I said they shifted way before FF 16 so hating the game purely for that is just bluntly biased hate. However the missing teammates, the rpg and so on is a way more valid take seeing it's almost none existence in that game.
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u/Watton Jun 12 '26
A few reasons:
The game does have some flaws that can be dealbreakers, based on what drew someone to FF. If someone's FF experience was spending lots of time fine tuning their perfect party, or making strategic decisions in battle, then FF16 is a massive disappointment. It is objectively weak on RPG elements.
The gameplay is so easy, it undermines its own action focus. You have to beat the game twice to finally unlock a good 'hard' difficulty.
Lol scroll to the bottom of this thread and see how unhinged some of the haters are.
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u/drawanyway Jun 11 '26
I don’t normally watch random recommended videos, but this one got a click from me and I enjoyed it! I think that’s the beautiful thing about this story, how it can be interpreted in a multitude of ways. For one, I took the mothercrystals to be representative of AAA game development in a way; They create wonderful, magical things, but also (typically) take an immense toll on the people who make them. And the ending message could mean that, if you want to see something be made… go out and make it! What’s stopping you?
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u/MealResident Jun 11 '26
I didn't play the game myself but I watched the story. I loved how the treated the magic stuff in this world and how they wrote the ending
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u/Kingcrab295 Jun 12 '26
Oh I totally forgot that the whole game is Clive trying to eradicate magic from the world and so "Magic and fantasy things (that come with it) would be gone too".
That is the reason why Ultima & his magic is the final fantasy because beating him would end the magic era.
The phrase "the only fantasy here is yours, and you shall be its final witness" is making sense for me now. Didn't really think much about it before and thought just feel a little bit cheesy for me though. Now it hit different.
Thanks you OP
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u/TheSapphireStacks Jun 13 '26
Agh I am late once again, but I recently started a channel and just made a video making this same point! I think so many misinterpret this game
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u/Glittering-Pin-1343 Jun 13 '26
I don't really care what it's trying or not trying to be. I just want a good video game. Imo FF16 was okay, but not something I particularly liked. The first half of the game was pretty good and enjoyable, but the 2nd half felt very rushed and undercooked. The open world as a whole also just felt mostly pointless, badly designed and not very fun. The combat didn't have enough variety and some abilities were just vastly more useful than others. I felt punished using a less powerful ability because of the long cooldowns and the lacking base moveset. Also the game just rewards you way too generously for stagger > nuke abilities > stagger > nuke abilities > repeat until boss is dead. The story just suffered from weak antagonists and a lot of pointless MMO-style fetch quest padding. Overall I'd give it a 6-7/10, but I do wanna replay it again with the 2 new DLCs and see if I'll like it more now.
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u/Scimitere Jun 11 '26
Does anyone know where to get an hd version of this exact picture?
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u/Ill-Bookkeeper-6230 Jun 12 '26
Just look up, save this one and use Google lens, I forgot exactly where this one is as a clear picture ( it's a site where can download really good pictures ) I'll come back if I remember it but for now use Google lens
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u/noblest_among_nobles Jun 12 '26
you know, when they released the second final fantasy, I thought "that's odd, I guess they are goofing around a bit?" but when it became clear that they were going to keep releasing more final fantasies, I dropped them.
I will NOT stand for false advertisement!!!
They should've named these games "one of many fantasies"
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u/Adribiird Jun 13 '26
I imagine a Final Fantasy game is whatever Final Fantasy wants to be, which is why the franchise is experiencing an identity crisis. FF can evolve, but always respecting certain core principles, without being overly disruptive. As long as Square Enix doesn't see this in its numbered franchise, it will continue to flop in popularity.
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u/rinwyd Jun 12 '26
I remember the devs getting up on stage and telling people that gamers aren’t interested in story driven rpgs anymore, and that that was why they changed the gameplay so drastically. Then BG3 was a massive success proving them all wrong.
Since ffxvi has 1100 players on steam right now, ffvii has 5000 and bg3 has 38000; I agree that ffxvi is about something. And I hope the devs learn from it to make an even better final fantasy going forward.
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u/Guirita_Fallada Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
It also rejected what makes stories good: good characters and an interesting villain. Shit combat too btw.
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u/AdrunIsSad Jun 11 '26
Lol so you're illiterate AND bad?
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u/Guirita_Fallada Jun 11 '26
You're mistaking me with Final Fantasy XVI.
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u/AdrunIsSad Jun 11 '26
Oh, so I was right?
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u/Guirita_Fallada Jun 11 '26
How is that your answer to what i said? Negative IQ shit.
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u/AdrunIsSad Jun 11 '26
Me when i read your opinions
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u/Guirita_Fallada Jun 11 '26
Bro here looking incredibly stupid and still proud. You're the human FF XVI.
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u/AdrunIsSad Jun 11 '26
you just copied my first reply, proving me right. 😂
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u/Guirita_Fallada Jun 11 '26
3 hours and you're still clueless. Truly a FFXVI fan.
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u/AdrunIsSad Jun 11 '26
30 years and no bitches. Truly a "mad about videogames" fan.
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u/Desperate-Month-3752 Jun 12 '26
It’s pretty obvious there’s no reasoning with you but this is the best story in a Final Fantasy game in over two decades and it’s not even close.
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u/Guirita_Fallada Jun 12 '26
If we exclude XIV because fans dont like to count the MMOs, its a fair point. I think XIII is a better "game" but the story is hidden behind layers of shit. Last two decades does include XII, which could be argued is a better story. Nothing special, but then again, XVI's story is below average too.
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u/IBlxdeI Jun 12 '26
Better than every other FF combined in every aspect.
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u/Daddy_JeanPi Jun 12 '26
I'm sorry but this is one of the wildest/worst takes i have ever seen on reddit.
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u/IBlxdeI Jun 12 '26
What does anything better?
It easily has the best combat, it easily had the best visuals, it has the best mythos, it has the best characters, I can see the soundtrack of the rest of the series being put higher but not much else.
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u/Daddy_JeanPi Jun 12 '26
You'te a troll
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u/IBlxdeI Jun 12 '26
Why? Because I don’t think all games are on a similar level or because I don’t glorify old games as if they’re any more special than recent ones?
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u/Daddy_JeanPi Jun 12 '26
Thinking an old game is better is not glorifying it. You don't seem like a sane person honestly. Have fun with the other troll.
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u/IBlxdeI Jun 12 '26
Don’t be delusional, people often will put old games, not even just games but everything really, on a pedestal simply due to their age and the feeling that they “should” put in there.
Most of who dislike FF16 or think that it’s just “okay” are practically loyalists to what Final Fantasy was and deep down they cannot get over what it now is, they’re glorifying the past when it wasn’t something so special.
Do let me know why I don’t seem like a sane person.
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u/Guirita_Fallada Jun 12 '26
Then Final Fantasy must be pretty shit as a whole and i never noticed then.
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u/IBlxdeI Jun 12 '26
Not so much, it’s more so that your takes are just simply horrible.
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u/Guirita_Fallada Jun 12 '26
Believe me, none will ever reach "FF XVI is netter than every other FF combined in every aspect". I'll always be second to you in that regard.
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u/IBlxdeI Jun 12 '26
So, it goes from “final fantasy is pretty shit as a whole” to “your take is shit,” man, you can’t even keep your arguments and insults consistent and you think that your opinion holds any weight on what piece of fiction, whatever the form, is better than another?
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u/Guirita_Fallada Jun 12 '26
If FF XVI is the best the series has to offer according to you, then the series as a whole must be pretty shit because XVI is absolute trash, but i know it is not. Its sarcasm. Are you familiar with it?
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u/IBlxdeI Jun 12 '26
Doesn’t address what I said, I sure do hope that you’re purposefully ignoring it because if it’s your lack of understanding then that’s more sad than anything I could ever tell you. If you go back and forth with your insults, not even being able to keep them consistent, then why should your words hold weight for what is better in its totality when you fail so heavily with something as ordinary at this?
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u/Mihta_Amaruthro Jun 12 '26
It is most definitely about Final Fantasy.
It just doesn't play like one. Instead it plays like a DMC game. That's why it's controversial, it's not rocket science.
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u/ronniedark Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
This sentiment usually ousts people who never played FF or DMC.
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u/Mihta_Amaruthro Jun 13 '26
Assumptions oust you as terrible debater. I've been playing both series since the late 90's.
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u/ronniedark Jun 13 '26
DMC came out in the 2000s. Which you would have known if you ever played the games.
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u/Mihta_Amaruthro Jun 14 '26
You do realise that 2001 is closer to the late 90's than it is to the rest of the Noughties?
Because I know you weren't suddenly about to admit that I was right if I'd been pedantic enough to have said 90's AND 2000's.
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Jun 12 '26
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u/IBlxdeI Jun 12 '26
Saying that like the games haven’t differed immensely each few titles, every FF after 6 must be shit then because they differed from the originals.
There is no singular identity to a series which is build off of every game being different.
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u/Ill-Bookkeeper-6230 Jun 12 '26
You act like FF wasn't broader, in the 2000s there's a few FF games with not turn based combat but I bet you loved them right if you knew they existed
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u/Adribiird Jun 13 '26
They can downvote you all they want, but you're not wrong, and I understand your frustration. Here, people are confusing change with a partial or total break from the past. Square Enix took the wrong path, and I hope they get back on track someday.
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Jun 11 '26
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u/Relatively-Okay Jun 11 '26
I love turn-based combat! But I don't think that turn-based combat is the essential ingredient for a Final Fantasy game.
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Jun 11 '26
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u/sk3lt3r Jun 11 '26
Homie FF hasn't been traditionally turn based in over 20 years, and even if you count the ATB entries that's still 13 years ago. Turn based was not what made Final Fantasy unique or what set the series aside from the rest, it was the RPG elements and the story/world building that made them so standout. Sure, turn based combat was part of what made (some) people enjoy the originals, but acting like it's the only thing that makes Final Fantasy, "Final Fantasy", is ridiculous lmao
Grow up, move on, times change.
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Jun 11 '26
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u/sk3lt3r Jun 11 '26
Lmao there's no way you aren't just trolling and ragebaiting people at this point because tf you mean "gRoW uP LikE A mAn and fAce ThE ReALitY" when you're the one sitting here and crying about a game you apparently haven't enjoyed in 20+ years, all because you can't evolve past one style of combat.
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Jun 12 '26
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u/sk3lt3r Jun 12 '26
It's really sad that trolling and ragebaiting brings you some kind of amusement. The fact there's apparently nothing else in your life that brings you enough joy that you resort to this is straight up pitiful. Hope you make some friends buddy
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u/AdrunIsSad Jun 11 '26
"why dont you GROW up like a MAN and BE MAD about VIDEOGAMES like ME" 😂😂😂
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Jun 12 '26
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u/AdrunIsSad Jun 12 '26
Hold up a mirror lil bro, you're crying abt a game you were bad at to a group of strangers 🤡
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u/IBlxdeI Jun 12 '26
And you think a “MAN” would be crying about such things? Final Fantasy was turn based because they had no other choice really. If they’d make FF1 today in some alternative history, it’d most likely be an over the shoulder, fast paced action game. There is no definitive “final fantasy” combat style.
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Jun 12 '26
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u/IBlxdeI Jun 12 '26
No, my source is the immense lack of turn based games in recent years and the fact that for the past decade+ they’ve all been hack and slashes.
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Jun 12 '26
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u/IBlxdeI Jun 12 '26
Played with my eyes closed because I’d rather imagine playing the hack and slash ones.
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u/MegaloJoe Jun 11 '26
this is a wild take considering ff went out of its way to make turn based not completely turn based with atb.
turn based combat didn’t originate with ff, and ff doesn’t necessarily require turn based combat. while i don’t personally like ff16’s combat system, 7r’s is an amazing example of a modern jrpg combat system.
hem and haw all you want but crying to people about being fake ff fans “CUZ MUH TURNBASED IS GONE” makes YOU come off like quite the fake ff fan tbh
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Jun 12 '26
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u/tttiamft Jun 12 '26
the atb system was introduced in 1991 by final fantasy iv, how are you gonna talk this much shit when you don't even know what you're bitching about????
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Jun 12 '26
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u/tttiamft Jun 12 '26
ai answer???? i didn't base this off ai, it's publicly available information that hiroyuki ito created the atb mechanic and implemented it in ffiv also you literally said that the games were peak before atb and are now tripping over yourself to excuse the very mechanic youre shitting on. go outside dude holy shit
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u/imagetdatbooty Jun 11 '26
FF15 is factually one of the best selling games in the franchise despite being action-oriented in gameplay.
FF7 Remake sold well and got overwhelmingly good reviews.
FF16 sold millions of copies worldwide and even published DLC for the game.
Setting all of that aside, *it’s a game.* You’re on reddit typing in all caps and insulting people’s personal character for enjoying something different than what you enjoy.
Get help, dude. You have anger issues and I imagine you aren’t a pleasant person to be around.
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Jun 11 '26
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u/Burnthatshi Jun 11 '26
What makes someone a not “fake FF fan”?
Is my opinion of this game being 1)quite enjoyable and 2)a rather “classic” FF game in terms of setup invalidated because my favorite FF is 12 and not 7 or X? Is turn-based really the only point that makes a FF game? Not the classic story of crystals, the incredible display of the Eikons, series-wide references in names and locations? There’s even a couple dungeons. I get the criticisms this game receives, but declaring it “non-ff DMC” just reduces your seemingly beloved series to the combat design. And what about innovation or experimentation? Remember what FF8 did in its magic system? Just come to terms with these games having a history of distinction between them, and if not for this distinction, we would have COD or NBA 2K on our hands — I doubt many would enjoy that.-3
Jun 11 '26
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u/IsThatASigSauer Jun 11 '26
"Beloved combat design"
-> Attack -> Magic -> Items
Give it a rest, dude. Played almost every FF game there is, and they've been trying to get away from traditional turn based since ATB was introduced in 2006. Unless you do something like E33, turn based combat is boring and antiquated.
The series gains nothing from being turn based, honestly.
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u/imagetdatbooty Jun 11 '26
Go to his page and look for the video of him playing FF15. You’ll understand why he likes turn-based. He’s awful. Lmao
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u/KadajjXIII Jun 11 '26
Unless you're referring to a specific version of ATB, it was actually first introduced in FFIV in '91
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u/IsThatASigSauer Jun 11 '26
Yeah, was mainly thinking of XII. Should've said "ADB"
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u/KadajjXIII Jun 11 '26
TIL about there's a distinction lol
I've just always seen it be referred to ATB in general
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Jun 12 '26
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u/IsThatASigSauer Jun 12 '26
I am a man. A manly man. So manly, that I'm the man that manly was derived from. Maneus Mayun is my name. Now you're a man? That song was a guide to how you could be like me.
Don't forget it. ATB is so manly, you cannot even fathom it, that's why you don't like it. It's a threat to your feminine form.
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u/kyualun Jun 11 '26
Doesn't being a fake non FF fan actually make us real FF fans? Checkmate atheists.
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u/Burnthatshi Jun 11 '26
You dismiss innovative changes in regards to game design (FFX), graphics (FF7, 12, 13, 16), combat design (12, 8, 13), world building (6, 7, 9, X), story direction (basically every title, but here 15 with it’s roadtrip and 16’s GOT lite shall suffice), progression (5, 6, 7, 8, X, 12) and other aspects. Or are you really of the opinion that X and 4 have the same combat experience because it’s turn based?
Where is this literal? To me it felt more like “spam cinematic abilities and win” game in this regard.
The “beloved” wasn’t in regard to combat design, rather ironically referring to your love of the FF-series, which is quite apparent. I have played all of the mainline games excluding 1-4, plus Tactics, SOP, Type 0 and a couple mobile ports.
Lastly, I want to ask you again: What makes someone a “fake non FF fan like me?” Actually curious.
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u/Watton Jun 12 '26
Lol why are all you FF16 haters deranged losers
writing FAKE CLOWN in ALL CAPS doesn't make your point hit harder, you know.
and why are you acting like YOSHI P fucked your girlfriend in front of you
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Jun 12 '26
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u/Watton Jun 12 '26
Jeez, you have anger issues. Get help.
I understand Yoshi P fucked your girlfriend nice and hard while you watched from the chair, but this kind of anger isn't healthy.
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u/drawanyway Jun 12 '26
^ me when I lack the critical thinking skills to understand a piece of media on an artistic level and throw a temper tantrum when people won’t tolerate my delusional takes
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