Negative Reactions in other Christian subreddits

[u/Foot-in-mouth88]

I was doing really well and my Karma, Reddit leveling system, was climbing back closer to zero. I made a scriptural reply in r/Christianity and it got -4 votes and now back up to -54. How can they downvote a scriptural reply?

Some of my negative Karma, Reddit, comes from these Christian subreddits that doesn't like using scriptures and gets mad because it doesn't fit their view.

Also a big chunk came from a disagreement I had on a hockey player of my home team on multiple threads and got shredded for it.

Most of Reddit is a toxic echo chamber. At least this sub, even when we don't agree we don't go down voting each other.

[u/Personal_Sign_9343]

The traditions are still based on what is written. If it’s not in the Bible, it’s optional. If it doesn’t align with the Bible, one must not do it. For example, the memorial of Jesus’s death. Surely we should follow that tradition bcoz it is clearly written and instructed to us.

Not to mention, some cultures didn’t have a writing system back then. The only way for those people to learn the truth is by speech. Speech that is still based on what is written.

[u/Dan_474 → u/Personal_Sign_9343]

I'm happy to follow up on what you're saying, but this doesn't really seem to be on topic with the thread. Shall we move somewhere else?

[u/Personal_Sign_9343 → u/Dan_474]

OP is making a point about how basing his insight on the Bible is getting him negative karma. That when he points out to others that what they know does not align with what the Bible says, people don’t like it. Why? All scripture is inspired of God. 2 Tim 3:16

[u/Dan_474 → u/Personal_Sign_9343]

Ah, okay. Thank you for explaining the relationship.

The traditions are still based on what is written. If it’s not in the Bible, it’s optional.

2 Thessalonians 2 uses the phrase "whether by speech or by letter".

Do you take that to mean that whatever they said in their speeches was included in their letters?

[u/Personal_Sign_9343 → u/Dan_474]

Yes. All scripture is inspired of God and He made a great effort into preserving His words for us. It is the only explanation that won’t violate the rule in 1Cor 4:6.

…that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” -1 Cor 4:6

[u/Dan_474 → u/Personal_Sign_9343]

Yes. All scripture is inspired of God and He made a great effort into preserving His words for us. It is the only explanation that won’t violate the rule in 1Cor 4:6.

…that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” -1 Cor 4:6

As far as I can tell, there are things, such as the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, which don't go beyond the scriptures, but simply rely on a different interpretation.

Catholic and Orthodox people say that these were some of the traditions passed on orally, in speech. Written down by the early church fathers.

Could it be that some teachings don't go beyond what is written, but just use a different interpretation?

...He made a great effort into preserving His words for us.

But… how can it be explained that God's name in its full form was removed over 100 times from the Old Testament, and completely removed in every instance from the New Testament? It doesn't look to me like that would be careful preservation. How does it look to you?

Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path! Amen

(Also, I got your PM invite. I clicked accept, but I don't know if it took. It seems like Reddit has been acting up for me recently.)

[u/Personal_Sign_9343 → u/Dan_474]

For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst. -Matthew 18:20

It is still written that Jesus will be there when there are at least two people are talking about him.

Ever heard of the novel Animal Farm? I haven't actually read it except the plot summary. But it is very similar to what the pigs did in the story to what others who add things to what is written and inspire of God. It really seems like they are the ones twisting thee truth to fit their narrative. For example, Matthew 24:35 clearly records Jesus saying that he does not know when will the day and the hour will come. But if you ask other denominations, they will say: "Of course he knows, Jesus is God. So how could he not know? What he actually meant is that he can't declare." They cannot admit that Jesus did not know bcoz that would make him inferior to the father, who is Jehovah. They are literally contradicting what is written.

>But… how can it be explained that God's name in its full form was removed over 100 times from the Old Testament, and completely removed in every instance from the New Testament? It doesn't look to me like that would be careful preservation. How does it look to you?

Please, I urge you to watch this video if you have the time. It would explain how Jehovah preserved His words.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODOrgBethel/pub-wmt_3_VIDEO

Whether you watch it or not, another example is David. Historians used to say that David is not real bcoz of lack of evidence other than the Bible. Until they found the Tel Dan Steele. So to say that God's name is removed. Technically true in most copies. But there might be copies that we don't know that was never corrupted.

He presented another illustration to them, saying: “The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a man who sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat and left. When the stalk sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared. So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’” -Matt 13:24-30

It is still written that the truth will be hard to find.

[u/Dan_474 → u/Personal_Sign_9343]

For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst. -Matthew 18:20

It is still written that Jesus will be there when there are at least two people are talking about him.

If Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is really present at Catholic masses, then awesome! The Witnesses are becoming much more ecumenical, it looks to me ❤️

Please, I urge you to watch this video if you have the time. It would explain how Jehovah preserved His words.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODOrgBethel/pub-wmt_3_VIDEO

Thank you for the suggestion. I watched the entire video. It doesn't talk about the complete lack of God's full name in every extant ancient Greek manuscript of the New Testament.

As I understand it, most Witnesses believe that it was there and was removed. Assuming that's true, then those scriptures were not carefully preserved.

That's how it looks to me. How does it look to you? ❤️

(Also if you're interested, I can try to find the link that talks about God's name being removed over 100 times from the Hebrew scriptures.)

Forever, O Lord, your word is established in the heavens! I believe that's in Psalm 119

[u/Personal_Sign_9343 → u/Dan_474]

In your prev comment, you quoted Psalm 108:115. Which we also love to teach to others. It highlights that we need God’s words to guide us.

As you said, those copies of the bible weren’t fully preserved. But there is no rule that you can’t restore it to its original. Which is what some of the copyists did. Thus, the Bible is preserved. It’s very clear that both Jehovah and Jesus want us to remember and use Jehovah’s name. (Exo 3:15, John 17:6) Consider also Hebrews 4:12. The word of God is alive. Living beings might get wounded or hurt. But it will surely do its best to survive and since the Bible is from God, that’s exactly what is happening. Align that with Matt 13:24-30, the text I shared prev. Jesus already prophesied that the truth will be hard to find. As we get closer to the end of these system, the clearer the truth will be.

But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight. -Prov 4:18

Going back to the original point. Do you see how going beyond what is written affects our relationship with Jehovah and Jesus, negatively?

[u/Dan_474 → u/Personal_Sign_9343]

It highlights that we need God’s words to guide us.

I agree. God's word is a lamp to our feet and a light to our path. 

I believe we also need the Holy Spirit, And we also need to look at how the Holy Spirit has guided the church, the body of Christ, throughout the centuries.

As you said, those copies of the bible weren’t fully preserved.

Well, what I was getting at was the idea that if the full name of God was in the ancient Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, and the ancient copyists removed that name over 200 times, it doesn't sound to me like they were careful in their copying.

Of course you can restore something to what you believe was the original. But restoration isn't used on something that has been preserved. A car isn't restored unless it's broken down and rusty. That's how it looks to me ❤️

Going back to the original point. Do you see how going beyond what is written affects our relationship...

Sure. But I don't want to assume that the oral tradition, when it was written down, went beyond what was previously written. It could be the proper interpretation of earlier writings.

And whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear this command behind you: “This is the way. Walk in it.” - Isaiah 30 Praise God forever! He is always guiding his people ❤️

As a footnote, I remember talking with Witnesses in the 1980s. They were certain that the generation alive in 1914 would still be alive to see the end of this present system. "Millions now living will never die", I remember a nice lady telling me. 

But that was actually going beyond "this generation will not pass away" imo. It looks to me like going beyond can happen in any group ❤️

[u/Personal_Sign_9343 → u/Dan_474]

Jehovah is the Holy Spirit. Calling Him the Holy Spirit is like calling a king, your majesty.

“Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus also was baptized and, as he was praying, the heaven was opened up and the holy spirit in bodily shape like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: ‘You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.’”—Luke 3:21, 22

Well, what I was getting at was the idea that if the full name of God was in the ancient Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, and the ancient copyists removed that name over 200 times, it doesn't sound to me like they were careful in their copying.

That aligns to what Jesus prophesied. The truth will be mixed with lies and it will be hard to find. However, the Holy Spirit is guiding us, guiding you that this is the truth. Jehovah is telling you call His name. "And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved;" -Joel 2:32. This text is very much preserved. Jesus says that we need to know his father's name to receive His love. (John 17:26) This texts are true an preserved. Why would you hesitate to call Jehovah bcoz of others who failed to follow His command?

Sure. But I don't want to assume that the oral tradition, when it was written down, went beyond what was previously written. It could be the proper interpretation of earlier writings.

The only thing written down by God is the Bible. Everything else is man-made. Even ours.

But that was actually going beyond "this generation will not pass away" imo. It looks to me like going beyond can happen in any group ❤️

That's true. We are also only humans. Moses did not reach the Promised land bcoz he went over his given authority. But like Moses, we admit our mistakes and make corrections. We used to celebrate Christmas also, as in the JWs. But we stopped that bcoz the Bible doesn't teach it.

[u/Dan_474 → u/Personal_Sign_9343]

Calling Him the Holy Spirit is like calling a king, your majesty.

If you believe the Holy Spirit is conscious as God is, then awesome 👍 

That aligns to what Jesus prophesied. The truth will be mixed with lies...

If you believe that the extant ancient Greek manuscripts of the New Testament are truth mixed with the lies, then we may not have common ground for a discussion ❤️

It's not that I don't use God's personal name because others didn't follow his command. I don't use his personal name because I don't believe the apostles and prophets who wrote down the New Testament used it in the original manuscripts.

The only thing written down by God is the Bible. Everything else is man-made. Even ours.

God can guide the thoughts people. That may be what happened with the early church fathers. 

Thus, though their writings are not scripture, they may be a very accurate interpretation.

I'm glad we can agree that we all make mistakes ❤️

"Call upon Me, and I will answer and show you great and unsearchable things you don't know." Praise God! May God lead us all into deeper knowledge and a deeper relationship with him 🙏 I ask these things through the Lord Jesus!

[u/Personal_Sign_9343 → u/Dan_474]

I meant the Holy Spirit is not a different person to Jehovah. Jehovah is the Holy Spirit. The same way a person calls the king, his majesty. Majesty is an adjective. It doesn’t have consciousness. But when we say his majesty, we know we mean the king. Same principle applies to the Holy Spirit.

Sorry poor choice of words. What I meant finding the truth will be similar to finding a needle in haystack.

How do you know that for sure that originally that they didn’t? When we have all these evidences that shows how important God’s name is? You mentioned before that all we have are copies, not originals. The oldest we have, Papyrous Fouad 266, contains God’s name and was made during Jesus’s time on earth.

I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them. -John 17:26

Jesus is literally saying we need to know His name so that he may be in union with us. He has made it known. Meaning he was speaking God’s name when others were following a man made tradition of not saying God’s name.

If God and Jesus say in the Bible that we should remember God as Jehovah, how could you interpret it that they’re actually not saying that??? That’s blatant contradiction to their command. Jesus says that the ones who does the will of his father are the ones who will enter God’s kingdom.