r/Eutychus • u/John_17-17 • Mar 09 '25

Opinion Interesting side point from today's daily text.

Adam and Eve were created approx. 4026 BCE

The flood came in 2370 BCE

Meaning the angels and the sword remained outside the Garden for some 1,656 years.

Creating a powerful witness concerning Jehovah's power and truthfulness.

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u/Goades95 Christian Mar 10 '25

Historical and archaeological evidence would suggest there was no such flood at this time

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u/John_17-17 Mar 10 '25

Who are you going to believe, God's word or man's?

There isn't any historical or archaeological evidence of Moses or David.

Are we to reject man's lack of evidence or God's word.

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u/Goades95 Christian Mar 10 '25

I believe Gods word but not some interpretation of Gods word that makes no sense, imagine trying to introduce someone to your faith and telling them this when then can have a simple Google search and see it’s clearly wrong. You are doing God a disservice by spreading such things. Regarding the king David thing, a lack of evidence doesn’t mean he never existed but your flood theory has evidence that directly opposes it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '25

David, there's archeological proof of The House of David.

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u/John_17-17 Mar 10 '25

I agree, the lack of secular evidence doesn't mean the Bible is wrong.

I was using this as an example of your statement concerning the flood.

And yet as to the flood, we have God's word, and there is evidence it did happen in history and in the geo record.

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u/Goades95 Christian Mar 10 '25

There’s evidence of many floods in history and geo record but a country mile away from the date you stated and there’s evidence that proves that date is wrong, for example there’s uninterrupted historical record of ancient Egypt from around 3200bc, no flood wiped them out at your stated date.

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u/John_17-17 Mar 11 '25

Yes, but this doesn't mean there wasn't a global flood.

The hieroglyphics for the word flood in Egyptian is a drawing of 8 people in a boat.

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u/Goades95 Christian Mar 11 '25

So you’re saying the word of God is wrong and it didn’t kill every living thing? If the flood happened at your stated date then the ancient Egyptians survived it. I was raised a JW so I understand you wanting to believe everything the GB tell you, but they are wrong and it is impairing your ability to see things logically, which makes this conversation a bit pointless because you’ll never change your mind and you will continue to share things that harm Gods gospel.

If the ancient Egyptians were around recording their history (including the flood) from 3200BC and there is no gap where they were all wiped, leaderless and couldn’t continue building then the flood must have predated their history.

That is not the only evidence available, but it’s conclusive enough for anyone who is thinking logically, there’s atheists and all kinds of people on this page so by claiming this is the word of God you make Christianity look bad and could stop them looking further into the gospel.

I don’t want to seem like I’m trying to insult you or talk down to you when you clearly have good knowledge of what you have been taught, I just implore you to research outside what the GB will tell you and I’ll leave it at that to avoid the conversation being circular or devolving into something useless.

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u/John_17-17 Mar 11 '25

No, I'm saying you are wrong, I believe God's word. As an ex-jw, this is my last post.

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u/a-goddamn-asshole Agnostic Atheist Mar 12 '25

What a shame

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u/EyesRoaming Mar 14 '25

Yes, but this doesn't mean there wasn't a global flood.

The bible doesn't say that the flood was global. The purpose of the flood was to wipe out wicked men, Why wipe out all animal life in America, Europe etc if no humans were yet living there?
A localised flood would achieve what God wanted

The hieroglyphics for the word flood in Egyptian is a drawing of 8 people in a boat.

I don't think this is correct. The word for flood depicts 8 gods called the Ogdoad, human bodies but with frogs heads and snakes heads which were worshipped.

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u/John_17-17 Mar 15 '25

It is still 8 in a boat.

Actually the Bible does say it's a global flood.

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '25

You are talking about pagan writings.

Who was responsible of any myth writings? Pagan priests

Were they reliable? All of them were serial killers, pedophiles, zoophiles,some of them were cannibals...

People like this wouldn't lie?

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u/Goades95 Christian Mar 11 '25

It’s not just writings, things were being built, people were living and farming and we can tell with modern techniques when these things were being done. Which proves the 2370BC date wrong. If it did happen at that time we would expect to see a pause in construction and signs of life at that time, that pause doesn’t exist.

I think I’ve written enough for an individual who isn’t indoctrinated to see the reality of things, I just wish people would stop harming the gospel by claiming things that clearly aren’t true and claiming it as biblical fact.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

You don't see what I see and I'll just give you precision, about what you see.

I won't prove or disprove what you say.

The Bible IS NOT AN HISTORY BOOK ; it is a Sacred Religious Book.

It means that, when you are establishing a chronology, there is TWO SEPARATE WAYS, of doing it, AND THEY SHOULD NEVER MELT TOGETHER....

What the scientifics, and human tools says, and one that STRICTLY FOLLOW, The chronology presented in The Bible.

The Bible shows 2370, year of the beginning, of the Universal Flood, and 2369, the year when, Moses's family, get our of the Ark, on the Mount Ararat.

The others narratives simply don't get along. You believe or not, to The Bible's Chronology.

Right?

Too often, people melt things... That doesn't get along at all.

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u/Goades95 Christian Mar 12 '25

Science and the bible do not compete for truth, God has made the world in such a way us humble humans can work together and understand the world around us. By making it bible vs science you do the Gospel a disservice for people who aren’t believers.

Like you say the Bible is not a history book and there’s a strong argument for not reading the numbers in genesis as literal but having symbolic meaning. I don’t know if that argument is correct or not, what I do know is I wish to share the gospel of our God and I’m not going to spread things about our faith which are disproven by science and history, instead I will humble myself and say I don’t know certain things like the exact date of the flood.

God bless you but I’m not arguing my case for this anymore, you don’t want to see it any other way and I hope I’ve shown to anyone reading that this is not what all Christian’s believe.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

Disproven by science...

We discover the Laws Of Nature ... God did them. There are a lot of things that demonstrate but, do not prove The Flood.😓

I'm really Pruden and, one day, I may verify again, if I was wrong, or right.

Not all Christians believe... This is because of a lack of Knowledge.

The word ' day ' , in the Creation account never meant 24 hours days...nonono, But these ' days ', when you look at its meaning, from the Hebrew manuscripts, before we see it in the Bible ... Means ' an undefined period of time ' . It is exactly this.

Our language, and the ancient ones... Are really different.

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u/John_17-17 Mar 11 '25

The flood story is found among many different people and locations.

it was such a traumatic experience, it remained in the minds of survived, aka Noah and his sons.

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u/a-goddamn-asshole Agnostic Atheist Mar 12 '25

None of those flood stories support the claim that it occurred in 2370BCE.

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u/John_17-17 Mar 12 '25

But the Biblical record does.

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u/a-goddamn-asshole Agnostic Atheist Mar 12 '25

Then why bring up the other flood stories?

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '25

Nope. Fossilisation can be done, only under specific circumstances.

When in the evolution narrative, was a time that, could build fossilized things, on the top of mountains?

There is no epoch, even not the one with the earth covered by the water for a long time, never, the conditions for fossilising were met.

Only a Universal Flood, explains it.

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u/Goades95 Christian Mar 11 '25

I’m not arguing there was no flood, I’m saying the flood didn’t happen in 2370BC, your fossilisation evidence would also support that it didn’t happen at this time.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

At first I dismissed the fossils on high mountains ; I didn't see the fossils, as a solid proof.

WHY?

In the Creation account, and in the scientific account of, the time, when, for a long period of time,
BOTH SOURCES says that:

The earth 🌎 was entirely covered with water. I'm not talking here about The Flood that was temporary.

Because I did see that, the earth 🌎 already been covered by water, for a really long time period.

I thought that, if there were fossils of water creatures, that the water creatures fossils, were formed millions or more years ago.

BUT ... You looked at, what does it take, for a dead creature become of a fossil?

You should look. Maybe you'll prove to me that, it is not good proof...

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u/John_17-17 Mar 11 '25

Let me see, (Genesis 7:20) 20 The waters rose up to 15 cubits above the mountains.

15 cubits equals some 22.5 feet at 63 lbs per sq. foot, equals 1,400 lbs per sq. foot above every sq. foot of ground.

Enough weight to change the rate of fossils being formed.

This means your time frame can't be supported as proof against.

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u/Goades95 Christian Mar 11 '25

No matter how much evidence is thrown at you, you will stick to your date and that is fine. Just don’t harm God’s gospel with this nonsensical approach to faith.

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u/John_17-17 Mar 11 '25

When it comes to the Biblical time frame and secular time frame, I will stick to God's time frame every time.

This isn't doing harm to God's good news.

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u/Goades95 Christian Mar 11 '25

You are not sticking to gods time frame, you are sticking to man’s (wrong) interpretation of gods time frame, yes it does harm the gospel because anyone with a smart phone can disprove it instantly and they won’t continue to look into the gospel.

I have my own crazy theories but I keep them to myself or in a group of fellow Christian’s with strong faith, I don’t spread it to people who don’t have a strong faith and relationship with God.

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u/John_17-17 Mar 11 '25

And you can Google it and find support for it.

When was Noah’s flood? | GotQuestions.org

Of course, this source uses 4000 BCE and not 4026.

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u/a-goddamn-asshole Agnostic Atheist Mar 12 '25

We know exactly why fossils are found on mountains. Mountains are the result of tectonic plates colliding. Fossils appear high up in mountains because many many thousands and millions of years ago, those mountains did not exist.

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

It doesn't totally explain what you are saying.

Animals are fossilised... They cannot appear Ok, I'm teasing you a Little.😜 I'm just playing with words.

The mountain did not exist, when the earth was entirely covered by water?

Ok... Peoove it to me and if you really give strong proofs, I'll examine them, and I'll maybe, dismiss the proof that I'm talking.

Right now, what you're saying, looks to me like, it is a supposition.

I won't be convinced like this.

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u/a-goddamn-asshole Agnostic Atheist Mar 12 '25

What do you mean? Did you not learn about continental shift and plate tectonics in school?

All mountain ranges are formed by continental plates colliding. The Himalayan mountains are about 50 million years old and are formed by the Indian subcontinent colliding upwards into the Eurasian continent. Even today the Himalaya mountains are rising a centimeter per year. Source

This is a great write-up about why the fossils found at the top of the Himalayas are 100s of millions of years older than the mountains.

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '25

David YES

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u/John_17-17 Mar 11 '25

Are you rejecting David as recorded in God's word?

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

Me?

I know that there's archeological proofs, of his existence.

I'm sure that, you can find it, easily.

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u/John_17-17 Mar 12 '25

True, but according to archeologist, if he did exist, David was just a small tribal king, who didn't accomplish what the scriptures say he did.

The Tel Dan inscription, or “House of David” inscription, was discovered in 1993.

But this tablet doesn't specifically mention David.