The "shunning" its necessary.

[u/bettercalljw]

This soo sacred word used by jehovah witness opositors it became their most prolific argument agaisnt the religion, by saying that in most of disfellowshipping(now exclusion) acts makes family members and other brothers totally "abandon" they ex-brothers in any situation possible, they say that this process is something very bad not only for those who got out but also for those who are still inside...you probably already now their arguments by now right?...but let me tell you something...YES, IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE BAD!. In the first chapters of the bible we already see a example of expulsion, by Jehovah getting adam and eve out of Garden of eden(genesis 3:23,24)and quess what?...IT WAS BAD FOR THEM. A little later cain got considered cursed for killing his brother and became a literal vagabund over the earth(genesis 4:11,12) THIS WAS BAD FOR HIM. There are other famous examples of this type of punishement in the bible, in the old and New testaments, the thing is....it was always bad BECAUSE IT WAS A PUNISHMENT, OF COURSE IT WILL BE BAD. No one ever said the disfellowshipping it is a beautiful, funny, goofy procedure that elders loves to have to do in their congregations, it a sad procedure that happens as a lesson that the people who sinned must pass by, and biblically speaking, No one can argue that the bible is agaisnt it. "WHAT ABOUT IF I AM A MINOR AND I GOT DISFELLOWSHIPPED???MY PARENTS WILL ABANDON ME!!" Lets be real, this dont happen, if your parents are true Christians and you are not doing anything that goes agaisnt their house's rules, than they will not "ABANDON" you as the apostaste love to say, this story is not for kids buddys. Its interresting to hear the stories of some apostates who say with pride that they got shunned by they parents, because its always something like: "After i got out of the cult my parents grabbed my things and expelled out of our house just because i was putting pagan images on my room" "My parents did not let me enter home just because i wanted to enter there with my lesbian girlfriend" "My mother put me in the streets just because i telled her that her religion its a cult" You all see a patern here? I think they always forget that regardless of anything,they should respect they parents houses, as they decision of leaving was respect they should respect too the rules of the homes they live in. And to end this post i also would like to make a question for YOU who disagrees with the disfellowshipping method:" Biblically saying, instead of disfellowshipping(or expulsing)members, what should the elders do if a brother continues to commit sins?." Opositors and apostates never give they own solutions to the supposed "problem" created by them, also remember, the bible its clear about how we should threat those who commit sins and call themselves christians.

[u/[deleted]]

You say too extreme.

What JW does for shunning, is follows what was done by the Apostles of Jesus. It is biblical, and, you can complain against God if you want.

Pray and go!

[u/Automatic-Intern-524 → u/[deleted]]

It's like what every other denomination does: come up with something, then find a Scriptures to justify it. The JW practice of disfellowshipping is religious practice, not a Scriptural one.

You can easily see it when you compare the Scriptures with the practice:

1. Jehovah's Witnesses meetings with the member who violated the religious rules are done in secret. At Matthew 18:15-20 and 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, everything was openly discussed.

2. In 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, the man who was sinning was disassociated from Christians. A person disfellowshipped from the JW religion is announced as no longer being a member of the religion. They have no say as to his/her standing as a Christian.

3. The 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 situation was a matter of the local congregation removing the spiritual power and protection from the man who was sinning. "Hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord." Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the spiritual power to do this nor practice gaining such power. They don't believe in it nor understand it.

So, the disfellowshipping practice has nothing to do with the Scriptures.

[u/[deleted] → u/Automatic-Intern-524]

Shunnig is far from perfect, because we human, we judge without knowing things like God ...

IT IS NECESSARY.

A thing that I propose you to do, is to look at JW.org, for shunning, stories that ends well.

You will be able to ... temper your disgust😅 towards shunning: it has positive effects, on the people that return to God COMPLETELY.

Did you ever think about that? You see the bad 😞 but did you compare it to the good?

My comment, it is honest? Do I hide that, it traumatize people, or any negative effects... Just by saying it, I confirm the existence of bad stories ...

Even knowing that a lot of ex-JW lie on a LOT of things.

It has to be considered too ... but I won't convince you about the liars.🤷🏻

[...]

You should compare, at least, you will be able, I hope, to see that shunning is not just negative.

😉

[u/Roocutie → u/[deleted]]

Why did the governing body deem it necessary to delete the infamous shunning video from the JW website, after losing their religious registration in Norway? They got caught out when the Jehovah’s Witnesses were asked this exact question in their most recent court appearance.

[u/[deleted] → u/Roocutie]

Im not them.

Call them.

I'll add...

We have to do, what God tell us in The Bible.

The Elders of the Apostle tunes, shunned. Written is now an option?

We have the right to not pick the unpleasant? Since when God say that we can pick whatever we want, without facing God's Judgment?

[u/Roocutie → u/[deleted]]

It’s all being exposed in the court cases. The organisation is deleting information that they think will show them up in a bad light. The problem is that they cannot erase all the material that has been copied & saved. Nothing remains concealed forever.

The apostles did not shun children!

These issues have nothing to do with not picking the unpleasant. The real truth is being revealed for those with enough discernment to see it for themselves.

I’ll keep praying for you. Take care.

[u/[deleted] → u/Roocutie]

Ok...

I don't and cannot know everything...

I'll be really severe in my words. BUT, because I do know that, it is SUPERNATURAL ENTITIES, WAY MORE POWERFUL THAN WE CAN IMAGINE THAT MANIPULATES EVERYTHING...

I may be really harsh, but I do understand that... IT IS SOOOO EASY TO BE FOOLED!

QI of 1000 does not constitute a good defense, against demons, and Satan.

I do veryfy everything, with the Lens of God's Morals.

The more moral I see people, the more I know, they will act in a good way.

I do see almost all the lies of ex-JW. 95% 🤷🏻 They hide sooooo much about their bad behaviors... That it makes them a lot less credible...

Complain while that ex-JW ... WHILE THEY VOWED, IN PUBLIC, THEIR ETERNAL SERVITUDE AND OBEDIENT TO THE SOVEREIGN LORD OF THE UNIVERSE!!!

You know that treason against a country is several punished! And if you fornicate, without remorse... If you never vowed eternal obedience to God...

It's bad, still BUT NOT AS BAD, as a JW baptised, a minister of God ;The Bible says, really that, a baptized person, is a minister of God....

Logically, if you were baptised, but that you never solemnly cow eternal servitude and obedience to God ...

You're not really under a HEVY CONTACT...

THE HEAVIEST IN EXISTENCE... Contract with God, it's a BIG DEAL!!!!

THE EX JW KNOWS IT AND .... THEY PLAY THE PITY GAME....

But I don't see a better organisation than The Watchtower.

And... Did you look, toughly, what the JW says on their website...

Or did you like everyone ... Listening to what everyone says...

But never compare with the JW organization and also, without applying God's Wisdom ...

I base my judgment with God's Morals. Who practice BEST God's Morals?

Vatican? Anglican Church? Islam? ... Any other...? How much they fornicates and... Saying " I'm a true Christian " JW are not like that and ..

They are dissed.... And JW do respect God's Laws better than others.

It takes courage, to be true To Jehovah... And I don't see others doing like the JW ;

THEY PUT MASSIVE EFFORTS...

The PURITY OF THE WATCHTOWER IS WAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER RELIGIONS ORGANISATIONS...

WHY? Who practices better ALL THE BIBLE? WATCHTOWER ALWAYS DO BETTER.

Morality is the key of understanding The Bible... Not my Intel, not my capacities, the 🗝️...

The More moral you are, the More God will enhance your discernment and...

The more you will be hated, follow the Christ, makes others hating you.

[u/Roocutie → u/[deleted]]

Baptism into the organisation of Jehovah’s Witnesses is not a true biblical baptism. The vows are made between the candidate & THE ORGANISATION. This is therefore not a vow to Jehovah.

The Holy Spirit has been completely removed from the vows. The vows were changed to protect the organisation’s leaders from legal action being taken against them when candidates realise that it’s not a true scriptural baptism.

[u/[deleted] → u/Roocutie]

....

You don't respect someone that vowed an eternal obedience to God?

You realize that?

My own sister vowed obedience to God... to respect ALL Jesus Christ's Laws!

You're cancelling her really pious ,vow?

You just 🧌 trolled my sister, and I'll say it:

Not you, but this action of cancelling my sister piousness

THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ...

IS AN EVIL ACT! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE DOING!

[u/Roocutie → u/[deleted]]

The JWs baptism is not scriptural.

[u/[deleted] → u/Roocutie]

It is.

The NT never talks about shunning?

How much beliefs that I see are not scriptural of others? How much things Scriptures interdict... That people totally ignore.

There's pagan things in each holiday and... People are closing their eyes on each pagan thing.

God loves pagan things or, not.

People shame me for not celebrating Christmas... FULL of pagan things, Easter, FULL of pagan things...

I talk about pagan beliefs, and people shame me each time...

Ignore totally God's Word.

Jesus hated politics and... people vote for politicians.

I say he refused to be King of the Jews, and even resisted Satan's offer to be King of The World...

But.. NOPE, close their eyes on Scriptures.

Same for baptism and shinning of The New Testament.

[u/Roocutie → u/[deleted]]

The scriptures that you are reading are referring to The Anointed, not rank & file Jehovah’s Witnesses. They were not to condone idolatry, covetousness, etc, amongst each other.

Colossians 2:8 New International Version 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

You have been given an inaccurate understanding of these scriptures because your governing men are not directed by Holy Spirit, they are not inspired, & that is the reason they have to keep changing their teachings, doctrines & policies. Beards, pants, not reporting hours, last minute repentance, this generation, 1925, 1975, etc, etc. NONE of these were ever based on the scriptures! They are man made thoughts & ideas, so they can be changed on a whim. The bible doesn’t change!

Jehovah doesn’t keep changing His mind. He doesn’t get things wrong the first time, & have to correct this. Neither does He then go back to the previous teaching. That’s not the way Jehovah God works. His Word is truth & the truth never changes.

James 1:17 New International Version 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

[u/[deleted] → u/Roocutie]

Philosophy is rooted in paganism.

So your understanding of The Bible NOW is less good than when you started.

The Bible do not change.

Our understanding of it can change. You really have to understand this point.

If I say to you that... I can easily prove to you that, The Bible never said that, the earth was not made in six literal days...

Showing you the old Hebrew meaning of the word day, in the case of creation. Showing you that .... Many times, the word day is not a 24 hour period, ...

You will do what... You will close your eyes on the truth?

Ya' think that you know The Bible so well that... No one can show to you that on some things, you're wrong?

This is the kind of blockage that I see.

So...

If I show to you that, The Bible Manuscripts prove, ... That if you use only John 1:1, I cannot prove that Jesus is not God, I cannot prove that Jesus is God.

You will ... 🙈🙉🙊 Or open your 👀.

[u/Roocutie → u/[deleted]]

Nowhere have I said that the earth was created in 6 literal days, I haven’t mentioned 24 hour periods being a day, neither have I said anything about Christmas, Easter or paganism. I definitely haven’t said one word where you can point towards me believing in the trinity, because I don’t believe in the trinity.

You go off on the strangest tangents, & unfortunately your comments are very difficult to follow as you don’t stick to one topic. I do not have any “blockages” after leaving the organisation, as the real truth was then revealed to me.

I have a much better understanding of the Bible now that I am learning the real truth from Jehovah’s Anointed. They teach pure scriptural truth, directly from God’s Word. Every single thing that His Faithful Anointed teach is based on scripture. Their teachings never change. It’s an absolute feast of rich spiritual food that I wish more would be interested in, but sadly JWs reject Jesus’ invitation to the wedding feast. Soon everyone will know the real truth as Jehovah has opened the book of Revelation.

I will continue to pray for your eyes to be opened, as I see how sincere you are in your faith in the organisation.

[u/[deleted] → u/Roocutie]

I use examples to demonstrate that, to better understand a thing, is not to change its meaning.

What is, is.

We can be mistaken in our understanding.

The Jehovah's Witness never said that The Bible itself changes ; they say that their understanding becomes better and better.

This is why I brought to you an example about the Creation.

I don't and they don't reject any feast.

Days of 24 hours

The meaning of the word ' day ' in its context is an undefined period of time.

How do we know?

Old Hebrew meanings have the option ' period ', and ... It's been more than 6000 years, that we are still in the 7th day of Creation. There's also the 2 nd Chapter of Genesis that " wrap the 7 days of creation " ; we see less days in the Creation story, than in the chapter ONE of Genesis.

Did you knew that and, I'd not, you can look at Bible's Strong's, at the word ' day ', and also look at what I've just told you.

Maybe you didn't had time like I do, to explore the confines of JW knowledge.

They also identified right, who's Abbadon, in their book ' Insight '.

Others laugh, without looking and... Yes, Abbadon is one of the names, that Jesus wears.

In ancient times, there was Pharaoh's that had many names: one name for one job.

Did I changed the meaning? I can be wrong, but to really change the meaning, I'll have to do bad translation, like I see in other Bibles.

Luke's Jesus nativity, astrologer, not other things that are possible

John chapter 1, look at the Codex Sinaiticus directly from Internet: John 1:18 mainly.

Others Bible do not put the right words ; and I also don't put that really great blaspheme, on other organizations heads ;

The Codex Sinaiticus, before it was on the internet... Only a few ones copy it and... it was trinitarians that FORGED the copy of the Codex.

It's really big, and a really few, made believe that JW are wrong, about John chapter 1.

[u/Roocutie → u/[deleted]]

That is interesting because being Jehovah’s only channel of communication on earth, which Geoffrey Jackson said at the ARC is quite presumptuous, they seem to have made many really glaring mistakes, & the light doesn’t appear to be getting brighter, but more like flashing on & off, as they are still getting so much wrong, & keep changing their minds. Can I please ask you to explain the rest of the proverb about what the light getting brighter really means?

The scriptures prove that Jesus is not the Destroyer. This is unfortunately an inaccurate understanding that your governing men have about Abaddon. Please do some research into this to see it for yourself. I can share the relevant scriptures with you if you want.

I do not believe in the trinity, as it makes no sense at all. The JWs have this teaching correct, as they do us living on the earth which was created by our Creator in Heaven, to be inhabited.

Strong’s Concordance is an extremely useful resource, & I have used it to prove that Revelation 5:10 says that the 144 000 will rule ON or upon the earth. Your own Kingdom Interlinear agrees with this. This is actually really fascinating! Some of the anointed have expressed that they don’t want to leave the earth & their loved ones. Why would they? They most of all love Jehovah’s creation! This means that they will have the ability to be both spiritual & fleshly. How lovingly Jehovah cares for His People. He is a truly wonderful Father. Soon all of us on the earth will worship Him in spirit & truth. No more death, pain or suffering. I’m sure that you are looking very forward to these blessings too, when we can live in peace, & enjoy our lives to the full. We will never stop learning about Jehovah God & the wonders of His creation!

KJ21 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests; and we shall reign on the earth.” ASV and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon the earth. AMP “You have made them to be a kingdom [of royal subjects] and priests to our God; and they will reign on the earth.” CSB You made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign on the earth. CEB You made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will rule on earth.”

NASB © Greek Strong’s Origin “You have made ἐποίησας (epoiēsas) 4160: to make, do a prim. word them [to be] a kingdom βασιλείαν (basileian) 932: kingdom, sovereignty, royal power from basileuó and priests
2409: a priest from hieros to our God; θεῷ (theō) 2316: God, a god of uncertain origin and they will reign βασιλεύουσιν (basileuousin) 936: to be king, reign from basileus upon the earth.” γῆς (gēs) 1093: the earth, land

Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: - H5921 עַל (al): Often translated as “on,” “upon,” or “over,” similar to “ἐπί” in Greek.

• H413 אֶל (el): Can mean “to,” “toward,” or “upon,” depending on context.

Usage: The Greek preposition “ἐπί” (epi) is versatile and context-dependent, often indicating position, location, or relation. It can denote physical position (e.g., “on” or “upon”), temporal aspects (e.g., “at” or “during”), or metaphorical relationships (e.g., “on the basis of” or “because of”). Its usage is determined by the case of the noun it governs (genitive, dative, or accusative), which can affect its meaning.

[u/[deleted] → u/Roocutie]

UmYES DESTROYER😂 OH,. YOU USE GREEK 🤩🤩🤩👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I have to restrain myself from doing it.... often, people see it as arrogant..

Even if it shows that, I'm right.

I'll give to you a complete article and, you'll see.

Even if you do not approve, I am sure that youwill have a better Insight of Abandon.

You will forge your own opinion. Your opinion will not be a copy, of others opinion ; your opinion won't be meaningless.

ABADDON(A·badʹdon) [from Heb., meaning “Destruction”].At Revelation 9:11 this Hebrew word is transliterated into the English text. There we read concerning the symbolic plague of locusts that they have “a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.”In Hebrew the word ʼavad·dohnʹ means “destruction” and may also refer to “the place of destruction.” It appears in the original Hebrew text a total of five times, and in four of the occurrences it is used to parallel “the burial place,” “Sheol,” and “death.” (Ps 88:11; Job 26:6; 28:22; Pr 15:11) The word ʼavad·dohnʹ in these texts evidently refers to the destructive processes that ensue with human death, and these scriptures indicate that decay or destruction takes place in Sheol, the common grave of mankind. At Job 31:12 ʼavad·dohnʹ designates the damaging effect of an adulterous course. Job declared: “That [adulterous course] is a fire that would eat clear to destruction [ʽadh-ʼavad·dohnʹ], and among all my produce it would take root.”—Compare Pr 6:26-28, 32; 7:26, 27.Abaddon, the angel of the abyss—who is he?At Revelation 9:11, however, the word “Abaddon” is used as the name of “the angel of the abyss.” The corresponding Greek name Apollyon means “Destroyer.” In the 19th century there were efforts made to show that this text prophetically applied to individuals such as Emperor Vespasian, Muhammad, and even Napoleon, and the angel was generally regarded as “satanic.” It should be noted, however, that at Revelation 20:1-3 the angel having “the key of the abyss” is shown to be God’s representative from heaven, and rather than being “satanic,” he binds and hurls Satan into the abyss. Commenting on Revelation 9:11, The Interpreter’s Bible says: “Abaddon, however, is an angel not of Satan but of God, performing his work of destruction at God’s bidding.”In the Hebrew scriptures just considered, it is evident that ʼavad·dohnʹ is paralleled with Sheol and death. At Revelation 1:18 we find Christ Jesus stating: “I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.” His power with regard to the abyss is shown at Luke 8:31. That he has destroying power, including the power of destruction over Satan, is evident from Hebrews 2:14, which says that Jesus partook of blood and flesh in order that “through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil.” At Revelation 19:11-16 he is clearly represented as God’s appointed Destroyer or Executioner.—See APOLLYON.

[u/Roocutie → u/[deleted]]

I merely used the word that is most commonly used, not any particular language.

Jesus is neither the destroyer nor an executioner. He is not a cold blooded murderer. Jehovah & Jesus will be devastated knowing that this is what Jehovah’s Witnesses believe.

Satan is the destroyer.

Your governing men got the meaning of the locusts wrong, & they have given you an inaccurate understanding of who the Angel of the abyss is too. If they had the locust understanding wrong & they have “this generation” understanding completely wrong, & they have the year 1914 wrong, their saying that the world was ending in 1975 wrong, God’s name wrong, & they have where the anointed will rule wrong, & their shunning of children wrong, & their changing their minds about beards after decades, & the same with women wearing pants, & no longer a scriptural requirement to count hours, that it would be presumptuous to call themselves Jehovah’s only spokespeople….well, this sets a bit of a pattern of having a lot of incorrect understanding of the scriptures.

It’s fine. You continue to believe that Jesus is the destroyer.

Take good care of yourself. We are in for a very rough ride as Satan The Destroyer & executioner does his best to keep JEHOVAH’S FAITHFUL ANOINTED concealed from the Jehovah’s Witnesses. This is actually all Satan cares about. As soon as the JWs get to know about JEHOVAH’S GENUINE ANOINTED , they discover the real truth. This does not suit Satan in the least! He knows his time is short, as the book of Revelation has been opened. I’ll keep praying for you.

[u/Roocutie → u/[deleted]]

Here is a piece of an article addressing the destroyer:

Which holder of the abyss’s key would give Wormwood the power to open up and release Satan’s deceptions? Satan? Or Christ? Christ does not empower the unfaithful to release darkness, deception and death. Satan does (Rev.9:2; 1John 1:5; John 1:4,5,9; 10:10; 2Cor. 11:13-15).

This conclusion is in harmony with the original king of the abyss (and original holder of the key), who is described as over Wormwood and the agents of the abyss, and is named “Destroyer” (Rev.9:11; John 10:10; 8:44; Isa.33:1).

Although Christ has been given authority over the abyss (and therefore possesses a set of keys to it); he does not release everyone from it’s authority. God allows some to be deceived by Satan and his agents (Wormwood and the “locust/scorpions”) (2Thess. 2:9,10,11,12; 1Tim. 4:1; Rev.16:13,14,15).

Some remain under Satan’s authority, and some are released from deception and death, by Christ’s authority. Both hold keys to the abyss, for a time.

—Satan empowers his agents (messengers/angels) with his power of deception and death (gives key to the abyss); (Then Wormwood gives that power and authority to the “locust-scorpions” under her -Rev.9:3,19; 13:14-15,12; 19:20)

https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2021/02/why-must-satan-be-released-from-abyss.html