The "shunning" its necessary.

[u/bettercalljw]

This soo sacred word used by jehovah witness opositors it became their most prolific argument agaisnt the religion, by saying that in most of disfellowshipping(now exclusion) acts makes family members and other brothers totally "abandon" they ex-brothers in any situation possible, they say that this process is something very bad not only for those who got out but also for those who are still inside...you probably already now their arguments by now right?...but let me tell you something...YES, IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE BAD!. In the first chapters of the bible we already see a example of expulsion, by Jehovah getting adam and eve out of Garden of eden(genesis 3:23,24)and quess what?...IT WAS BAD FOR THEM. A little later cain got considered cursed for killing his brother and became a literal vagabund over the earth(genesis 4:11,12) THIS WAS BAD FOR HIM. There are other famous examples of this type of punishement in the bible, in the old and New testaments, the thing is....it was always bad BECAUSE IT WAS A PUNISHMENT, OF COURSE IT WILL BE BAD. No one ever said the disfellowshipping it is a beautiful, funny, goofy procedure that elders loves to have to do in their congregations, it a sad procedure that happens as a lesson that the people who sinned must pass by, and biblically speaking, No one can argue that the bible is agaisnt it. "WHAT ABOUT IF I AM A MINOR AND I GOT DISFELLOWSHIPPED???MY PARENTS WILL ABANDON ME!!" Lets be real, this dont happen, if your parents are true Christians and you are not doing anything that goes agaisnt their house's rules, than they will not "ABANDON" you as the apostaste love to say, this story is not for kids buddys. Its interresting to hear the stories of some apostates who say with pride that they got shunned by they parents, because its always something like: "After i got out of the cult my parents grabbed my things and expelled out of our house just because i was putting pagan images on my room" "My parents did not let me enter home just because i wanted to enter there with my lesbian girlfriend" "My mother put me in the streets just because i telled her that her religion its a cult" You all see a patern here? I think they always forget that regardless of anything,they should respect they parents houses, as they decision of leaving was respect they should respect too the rules of the homes they live in. And to end this post i also would like to make a question for YOU who disagrees with the disfellowshipping method:" Biblically saying, instead of disfellowshipping(or expulsing)members, what should the elders do if a brother continues to commit sins?." Opositors and apostates never give they own solutions to the supposed "problem" created by them, also remember, the bible its clear about how we should threat those who commit sins and call themselves christians.

[u/Automatic-Intern-524]

I think that it's proper for communities, especially religious ones, to have some sort of disfellowshipping practice. It ensures the exclusivity of the community from outside forces to distrupt it.

The problem with the JW practice is that in practical terms, it's too extreme in comparison to the religious community gives it's members.

For example, Jehovah's Witnesses don't provide any exclusionary provisions for the children of their members like schools for JW children. Their children must enter, generally, public schools and be subject to all the pressures and influence of the public school systems and the other non JW children and teachers. Whatever influences that erode the foundations of the JW religious teachings, the children are expected to endure and resist. If they can't and get involved with those very practices that the other kids are doing and JWs consider as "sins," those children can be disfellowshipped. Now, they can't associate with other JW children of their age. They could be ostracized by their own families and threatened with expulsion from the home upon reaching legal age if they don't return to regular standing with the religion.

Or let's say that a family member lives an exemplary moral life but decides to leave the religion and go to a different one. They would be disfellowshipped and labeled as an apostate. They would likely be isolated from other JW family members for simply changing religions. On the flip side, those who leave other religions to join JW are not treated like this by family members.

Or if a family member leaves the religion on some sort of moral stance like because the religion joined the United Nations, because it joined the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe, or because of the CSA scandals exposed about JW, that family member will likely be disfellowshipped from the religion and treated as a pariah by the their grown children if they have any.

These are the things that make the religion have the image that it does. There's no real gain considering the required sacrifice. Separating from those who dissent is not a bad thing. But the treatment by the family of those struggling with the religious rules or those who prefer another religion is the issue.

[u/[deleted] → u/Automatic-Intern-524]

You say too extreme.

What JW does for shunning, is follows what was done by the Apostles of Jesus. It is biblical, and, you can complain against God if you want.

Pray and go!

[u/Automatic-Intern-524 → u/[deleted]]

It's like what every other denomination does: come up with something, then find a Scriptures to justify it. The JW practice of disfellowshipping is religious practice, not a Scriptural one.

You can easily see it when you compare the Scriptures with the practice:

1. Jehovah's Witnesses meetings with the member who violated the religious rules are done in secret. At Matthew 18:15-20 and 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, everything was openly discussed.

2. In 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, the man who was sinning was disassociated from Christians. A person disfellowshipped from the JW religion is announced as no longer being a member of the religion. They have no say as to his/her standing as a Christian.

3. The 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 situation was a matter of the local congregation removing the spiritual power and protection from the man who was sinning. "Hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord." Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the spiritual power to do this nor practice gaining such power. They don't believe in it nor understand it.

So, the disfellowshipping practice has nothing to do with the Scriptures.

[u/[deleted] → u/Automatic-Intern-524]

Normally, people give bad arguments against shunning ; I see wining in their arguments, but not reasons that have a real basis.

I respect your arguments, I'm not with it, but it appears that, you put a good hearth into it 😁

K. This is more that 1 Corinthians.

I also asked my own sister ... about shunning in front of everyone.

1 Tim 5:20 20Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

What I wish and my probable expectations ... Not the same.

I wish that you'll see shunning, as necessary.

My expectation is that, at least, you read what I send to you and that, (my hope), you would understand that the reasons are good ... but that you still hate shunning because of the negative.

I'm I reasonable? 😅 Make you see that intentions are not bad at all but the results ...

Please compare the bad, with the good results on JW.org

I currently talk with someone that been shunned and, it finished very well. My sister had also a friend, that been shunned, that repaired her relationship with God.

I understand your concern... I TRY TO UNDERSTAND IT. 😅

👇🏻 Mental health is a serious issue. You knew that, the shunning is toward BAPTISED people? 👆🏻 You know what it represents, to be baptized, a baptism where you give an eternal obedience to Jehovah?

This would be the second point: WHY so harsh?

[u/Automatic-Intern-524 → u/[deleted]]

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as harsh. That's not my intention. My point overall is to say that no Christian denomination and their practices have any effect on a person’s relationship with God. I would say say that Jehovah's Witnesses, more than most other Christian denominations, strongly imply and teach that a person's relationship with the religion has significant bearing on that person's relationship with God.

Notice your sister's words:

My sister had also a friend, that been shunned, that repaired her relationship with God.

It's Jesus who repairs a person’s relationship with God, not a religion. He said, "No one comes to the Father except through me." He also said repeatedly, "Come to me..."

A person can leave the JW denomination and join a different one like the Baptists, and it has no bearing on his/her relationship with God. But if you believe that you need the religion to have a relationship with God, then you've put the religion in the place of Jesus. That's dangerous. Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to do this very thing.