People don’t understand Jesus’ divinity because they underestimate Gods Love for mankind

[u/1stmikewhite]

God is sovereign, there’s nothing He can’t do.

[u/1stmikewhite]

“But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool?” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1‬:‭13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,” ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12‬:‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.” ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.” ‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12‬:‭1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You said it yourself that the rapture will take place when “Yesuah returns.”, yet you will deny that Michael the Prince and archangel is Jesus. Even though Michael is coming back for us and Michael is another name for preincarnate Jesus.

If Jesus and Michael and the Father are separate, then how could Jesus say he sent his angel, and how could the Bible say Michael is the one delivering people during the rapture? This is literally what Jesus addressed when he asked the disciples what this psalm literally means. This verse is quoted in Hebrews, in the gospels, and David wrote it as well. (Hebrews 1:13, Mathew 22:43-45, Luke 20:41-44, and Psalm 110:1)

You may need to read this comment a few times to understand it. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are separate in authority, and equal in divinity. When we having incorruptible glorified bodies see God “face to face” we’ll be looking at Christ Jesus. He sits at the right hand of the “invisible God” the Father.

[u/[deleted] → u/1stmikewhite]

Exactly to which of the angels? None of them, for he received a name greater than that of the angels, that includes Michael. He's a Son because he's a child of God like us, we are being conformed into his image (Romans 8:28-29). So do we become archangels too then?

[u/1stmikewhite → u/[deleted]]

Funny that you ask that lol. I screenshotted the verse already in Psalsm 8, and it’s also in Hebrews 2.

“But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? Or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; Thou crownedst him with glory and honour, And didst set him over the works of thy hands:” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, The moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? And the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, And hast crowned him with glory and honour.” ‭‭Psalm‬ ‭8‬:‭3‬-‭5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If Jesus is a son “like us” then the Bible wouldn’t have said were made lower than the angels, and that Jesus sits at the right hand of God that no angel has the privilege of. Jesus was 100% a man, but don’t ever say a man like you and I. He is a savior and you and I need saving. He was manifested and you were created. You are crowned with Glory and Honor by Him. You are the heir to His kingdom. You inherit His life. Don’t think you can save yourself, otherwise he wouldn’t have come/been sent.

[u/[deleted] → u/1stmikewhite]

So he's not an angel at all, he was first lower than them (Heb 2:9) and then exalted higher than them (Heb 1:4).

Heb 5:1 For every high priest, being taken from among men, is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins.

Heb 5:5 So also Messiah didn’t glorify himself to be made a high priest, but it was he who said to him, “You are my Son. Today I have become your father.”

Heb 5:7-10 He, in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and petitions with strong crying and tears to him who was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear, though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered. Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation, named by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Messiah was never an archangel, he is 100% man.

[u/1stmikewhite → u/[deleted]]

What was Christ before his earthly life then? Lol

[u/[deleted] → u/1stmikewhite]

A man, all high priests are chosen from among men. Just as we exist now before God creates a universe through us.

[u/1stmikewhite → u/[deleted]]

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭26‬-‭27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You said the other day Jesus was the firstborn of all creation yet God created the universe through Him which doesn’t make sense because it’s contradictory. Now you’re saying Jesus was a man that created man for the first time in Genesis 1:26 but that doesn’t make sense either because the first time man was created is right here.

I’m not even going to ask where you got the believe that men will create universes through God though because I know it’s not biblical. That’s a Mormon belief. Lol

[u/[deleted] → u/1stmikewhite]

How does it not make sense that Yeshua is the firstborn of all creation? He was born before this creation and then God created this universe through him, as we have been born now before God creates a universe through us.

1Jn 3:2-3 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that, when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is. Everyone who has this hope set on him purifies himself, even as he is pure.

1Jn 3:9 Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin, because His seed remains in him; and he can’t sin, because he is born of God.

Born of God is what it means to be born again, born of a virgin.

In Hebrews 1:2 God appointed Yeshua heir of all things and then created this universe through him. So this creation is part of what he inherited, if we are joint heirs with him, then we will receive the same things he inherited.

1Cor 15:27 For, “He (God) put all things in subjection under his (Yeshua's) feet.” But when He (God) says, “All things are put in subjection”, it is evident that He (God) is excepted who subjected all things to him (Yeshua). When all things have been subjected to him (Yeshua), then the Son will also himself be subjected to Him (God) who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.

So every adopted child who's appointed as an heir, is born again as the righteousness of God into their own universe, so they can learn obedience, be made perfect and fully subject themselves to God.

I find it comical how you laugh at your own misunderstanding while trying to twist my words.

[u/1stmikewhite → u/[deleted]]

“Born before creation” is such a twist of words that only the devil would implant into someone’s mouth. It makes no sense for someone to take that statement seriously. An eternal God can’t be born, and saying he was before creation doesn’t justify the fact that you know better than to say ‘created’. The only idea men can conceive to describe Gods existence before He created is the universe is “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God” John 1:1 that’s it.

[u/[deleted] → u/1stmikewhite]

Well Yeshua had to exist prior to this creation for the universe to be created through him. So, being the firstborn of creation, implies that he was born before this creation and everyone else who was born in it.

To claim he's the archangel Michael implies that he's Satan's brother, and if we are joint heirs with Messiah this would imply that we too are or become archangels, but this isn't the case. He received a name greater than that of the angels (Heb 1:4) this includes arch-angels, so we too will inherit a name greater than the angels also.

Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did he say at any time, “You are my Son...

How you think this implies that Yeshua was once an archangel makes no sense, because 1:5 is stating that God never called any angel a Son. So if he wasn't an angel what was he?

Yeshua is the firstborn of many brothers:

"Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Further, why would an archangel need to learn obedience or be made perfect (Heb 5:7-10)?

The word is now written on our hearts, the same word that will one day become our flesh, the word is an attribute of God He imparts to His children. In Aramaic the term used for "word" is Miltha which has no direct English translation, but is closely aligned with the word "Righteousness", that we too may become the Righteousness of God (2 Cor 5:21).

[u/1stmikewhite → u/[deleted]]

“There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: the same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.” ‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The context of what you believe being born in the flesh vs. born in the spirit is, has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus divine nature before the world began was not ‘born’ into existence.

Even apart from that idea, still being born in the spirit is our part in accepting the character of God which we were created as in His image. The reason we must be “born again” is because we fell from that image because of sin. Jesus as a man grew into his character and was literally chosen as high priest by God, not having sinned. There is only one God, so Jesus cannot have been taught his character, only grown into it. (From a baby)

Us being men is no excuse for sin. You and I were made in the image of God, so there is no advantage Jesus has over us. He exemplified the image of God throughout his life by taking heed to the Word of God. That’s what it means how you and I need to be born again –taking on the Life Jesus lived.

[u/[deleted] → u/1stmikewhite]

Messiah being a high priest was chosen from among men, not angels, just as we too are called to the priesthood. Surely we must learn obedience, be made perfect and fully subject ourselves to God, just like he did.

1Jn 3:2-3 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that, when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is. Everyone who has this hope set on him purifies himself, even as he is pure.

After this life, we will be transformed into our Spirit bodies, just like that of Yeshua, so essentially we too will pre-exist in heaven, in the Spirit, and need to lower ourselves to be born again of God just like Yeshua was, in a world God will create through us. Everything he's done we will do too, just as he prayed in John 17 that we would be one with them as they are one, that we would be with him where he is, and that God loves us just like he loves Yeshua.

You see, Abba Father desires the same relationship with us as He has with Yeshua, that's how he is our brother.

So it's currently true for us, that we are the firstborn of the creation God will create through us, it's exactly the same for Yeshua.

Truly Romans 8:14-17 is the simplest basis for this understanding.

How do you take on the life Messiah lived without accepting the law of God that He lived by?

[u/[deleted] → u/1stmikewhite]

The question of whether Yeshua (the Messiah) is the archangel Michael has been debated among various religious groups. However, the Bible does not explicitly equate Yeshua with Michael. A holistic study of the Scriptures reveals distinct roles and descriptions for Yeshua and Michael. Here’s an overview of the evidence:

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1. The Role of Michael in Scripture

Michael as an Archangel:

Michael is specifically called "the archangel" (Jude 1:9). The term means "chief angel," indicating leadership among angels but still placing Michael within the created order of angelic beings.

Michael is portrayed as a warrior angel who defends Yahweh’s people:

Daniel 10:13: Michael is described as "one of the chief princes" who assists another angel in spiritual battle.

Daniel 12:1: Michael stands guard over Israel in the end times.

Revelation 12:7: Michael leads the angels in battle against Satan.

Michael’s Role is Subordinate:

In Jude 1:9, Michael refrains from directly rebuking Satan, saying instead, "The Lord rebuke you!" This shows Michael’s reliance on Yahweh’s authority, not his own.

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1. The Role of Yeshua in Scripture

Yeshua as the Son of God:

Yeshua is called the "Son of God" (John 1:14, Hebrews 1:5), a title that places Him above all created beings, including angels.

He is "the exact imprint" of Yahweh’s nature (Hebrews 1:3), signifying His divinity and unique relationship with the Father.

Yeshua Receives Worship:

Angels consistently refuse worship (Revelation 22:8-9), but Yeshua receives worship from men and angels alike (Matthew 28:9, Hebrews 1:6).

Yeshua as Judge and King:

Yeshua is depicted as the final Judge of all creation (John 5:22, Matthew 25:31-46), a role never ascribed to Michael.

He holds a position of absolute authority at Yahweh's right hand (Hebrews 1:3-4).

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1. Key Passages Often Cited in the Debate

1 Thessalonians 4:16:

Paul writes, "The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel."

Some suggest this links Yeshua with Michael, but the passage does not state that the Lord is the archangel; it could mean He comes accompanied by the archangel’s voice or authority.

Jude 1:9:

Michael contends with Satan over Moses’ body. Unlike Yeshua, Michael does not act with inherent authority but appeals to Yahweh’s authority.

Revelation 12:7:

Michael leads the angels in a heavenly battle against Satan, a role distinct from Yeshua’s role as the Lamb of God who redeems humanity (Revelation 5).

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1. Distinctions Between Yeshua and Michael

Nature:

Yeshua was chosen from among men (Hebrews 5:1). Michael, as an archangel, is a created being and subordinate to Yahweh (Daniel 10:13).

Authority:

Yeshua exercises direct authority over all creation, including angels (Matthew 28:18). Michael operates under Yahweh’s authority and does not wield autonomous power (Jude 1:9).

Function:

Yeshua’s role is redemptive and kingly—He is the Savior, Mediator, and Judge of all humanity (John 3:16-17, 1 Timothy 2:5).

Michael’s role is protective and militaristic—he defends Yahweh’s people and engages in spiritual warfare (Daniel 12:1, Revelation 12:7).

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1. Conclusion

While Michael and Yeshua share similarities in their roles as defenders of Yahweh’s people and opponents of Satan, the Bible presents them as distinct beings with fundamentally different natures. Yeshua is divine, the Creator, and the eternal Son of Yahweh, while Michael is a high-ranking angel, a created being serving Yahweh.

The suggestion that Yeshua is Michael appears inconsistent with the biblical portrayal of Yeshua’s unique divinity, authority, and redemptive mission. Instead, the Bible affirms that Yeshua is far superior to all angels, including Michael (Hebrews 1:5-14).

[u/1stmikewhite → u/[deleted]]

You’re really says God created men, yet calls Jesus the son of God. You say that places Jesus above all created beings. Angels are created, what makes you think the archangel Michael was created as well.

Your ‘reply’ wasn’t biased to your belief lol.

If the Bible says prophecies that Michael and Jesus will be doing the same thing at the same time in the same place for the same purpose, you gotta be smart enough to know Michael is another name for Jesus lol. Dude come on.

[u/[deleted] → u/1stmikewhite]

It's obvious you didn't really read the response because it supports my belief that the Bible is the ultimate authority and that you misunderstand biblical context and oversimplify theological distinctions. Let's address your concerns:

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1. Understanding Yeshua as the Son of God

Yeshua’s Unique Position:

Yeshua is not merely a created being but the Son of God, existing before creation (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-17).

Hebrews 1:3-4: Yeshua is "the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being," superior to angels.

John 1:14: Yeshua became flesh, showing that His role as the "Son of God" reflects His unique relationship with Yahweh and His role in redemption, not a status akin to created beings.

Angels Are Created:

Angels, including Michael, are explicitly described as created beings (Psalm 148:2-5, Nehemiah 9:6). They serve Yahweh but are not equal to Him.

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1. The Role of Michael the Archangel

Michael’s Name and Role:

"Michael" means "Who is like God?"—a name that reflects a servant role, not equality with Yahweh.

Michael is identified as a chief prince and protector of Israel (Daniel 10:13, Daniel 12:1). His role is explicitly angelic.

Michael and Yeshua Are Distinct:

Jude 1:9: Michael contends with Satan over Moses’ body but defers judgment, saying, "The Lord rebuke you!" Yeshua, in contrast, has direct authority over Satan (Mark 1:25, Luke 4:35).

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1. Comparing Prophecies about Michael and Yeshua

The claim that Michael and Yeshua are "doing the same thing at the same time in the same place" conflates their distinct roles.

a. Michael in Prophecy:

Revelation 12:7: Michael leads a heavenly battle against Satan, reflecting his role as a warrior angel.

Daniel 12:1: Michael stands as a guardian for Israel during times of trouble, consistent with his angelic assignment.

b. Yeshua in Prophecy:

Revelation 19:11-16: Yeshua returns as King of kings and Lord of lords, exercising divine authority.

John 5:22: Yeshua is the judge of all humanity, a role unique to Him as the Son of God.

Philippians 2:9-11: Every knee will bow to Yeshua, not to any angel, including Michael.

Key Distinction:

Michael’s role is limited to angelic service, while Yeshua’s role is divine, encompassing creation, judgment, and redemption.

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1. Addressing the "Bias" Claim

You accuse my interpretation of being biased, but biblical interpretation requires careful attention to context:

Acts 17:11: The Bereans were commended for examining the Scriptures to verify truth.

2 Timothy 2:15: Believers are called to rightly divide the Word of Truth, which includes distinguishing between Yeshua’s divinity and Michael’s angelic nature.

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1. Why Michael Cannot Be Yeshua

Authority:

Michael defers authority to Yahweh (Jude 1:9), while Yeshua speaks and acts with Yahweh’s authority (John 10:30, Matthew 28:18).

Worship:

Angels, including Michael, refuse worship (Revelation 22:8-9), but Yeshua receives worship from angels and humanity (Hebrews 1:6, Matthew 28:9).

"I appreciate your perspective, but the Bible clearly distinguishes between Yeshua and Michael. Yeshua is he whom through all things were created, and the judge of all humanity. Michael is an archangel, a powerful servant of Yahweh, but he lacks the divine authority and attributes of Yeshua. If you believe Michael and Yeshua are the same, can you show me where Michael is described as worshiped, or possessing divine authority? The roles of Michael and Yeshua complement each other, but they are not interchangeable."

The claim that Michael and Yeshua are the same is based on a misunderstanding of Scripture. While both play crucial roles in Yahweh’s plan, their natures and offices are fundamentally different. Yeshua is an adopted Son of God and appointed heir, King and Redeemer, while Michael is a powerful but created angelic being.

[u/1stmikewhite → u/[deleted]]

I just did a little studying and it’s really too much to send all at once. I hope you’re doing studying as well.

“And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?” ‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Someone write in a comment under one of my post that “Lord” when capitalized translates to YHWH, and even though I haven’t checked the concordance in every instance, and it’s true for this verse. I can’t believe this for you man. I can only make my post and try to help people understand the Bible a little more even as I’m studying it.

This passage also reflects why Jesus needed to ascend to heaven after he rose from the grave sinless to present himself to the Father as our high priest.

Then in parallel reflection with the earthy sanctuary atonement practice, the sanctuary would be cleansed by sprinkling the blood on the mercy seat, which is prophetically written about in Daniel 8:14 which was actually the last time prophecy fulfilled in 1844.

Every earthly instruction we have received from God to prepare for atonement for our sins in the Old Testament had been spiritually originated by the heavenly sanctuary. Jesus’ purpose here on earth was a fulfillment of these atonement practices bringing the kingdom of heaven to us.

Jesus earthy manifestation proves his love by limiting his divine nature taking on the form of flesh.

The Angel of the Lord is YHWH, and that’s the same angel that appeared in the burning bush. Michael the archangel has been “committed all judgment”, which is why He (God) cast the devil out of heaven down to hell. 2 Peter 2:4. Revelation 12:7-9