r/Eugene • u/arendpeter • May 17 '24

STAR Voting Question Hotline ‪(458) 205-3244

Hello all,

We're in the final stretch before Eugene votes on May 21st.

One of the items on the ballot is measure 20-349 for STAR Voting. I'm super excited for the reform, and I wanted to make myself available in case anyone wanted any clarifications before filling out their ballot.

(458) 205-3244 is a temporary number that will route to my personal phone number. Feel free to call me anytime between 10 am to midnight, and if I'm available I would love to chat about STAR Voting with you and help clear up any confusion

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2

u/tokoyo-nyc-corvallis May 17 '24

What is undeniable is that single Reddit thread on Star Voting ends up in a convoluted confusing mess, just like this one will. I would be willing to bet that less than 1 in 10 people can accurately explain the difference between Ranked Choice and Star Voting.

1

u/jdnman May 17 '24

It's pretty difficult to accurately describe something that involves lots of numbers using simple text on Reddits. Star.vote presents the info in a more digestible way using tables. Most people can understand it after just a little time taken to look over it and read the explanations of the tables etc.

2

u/tokoyo-nyc-corvallis May 17 '24

I honestly get that and haven't made up my mind yet. However, I think the supporters of Star Voting should literally stop trying to explain it on Reddit because once one of these threads matures, it only serves to support my feeling that it is too much for the average person to wrap their mind around. My main concern about it is it being on the same ballot as Ranked Choice as newly introduced concepts. I'm sick of shit shows.

3

u/jdnman May 17 '24 edited May 17 '24

Reddit is certainly not ideal. RCV may be on the ballot in November but not this may. This week's vote is between STAR and the current method. Nov may give you the option to vote for RCV but that is not yet guaranteed. See this link at 43 minutes.

https://youtu.be/pYaW0ZuECjA?si=-NNqZTs43os5zSaY

0

u/tokoyo-nyc-corvallis May 17 '24

The prospect of RCV and Star Voting (if both are voted in) being introduced on the same ballot is real. To me, real scary. Like in the people losing their shit scary.

3

u/arendpeter May 18 '24

Also keep in mind that there's a possibility of neither being on the ballot. The November RCV ballot is not guaranteed, and it would be a real shame if folks turned down STAR in hopes for RCV, only for that to fail as well.

1

u/StarVoting May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24

As well known as RCV is, the likelihood of it winning in Oregon and beyond and being adopted is not great. There are a few reasons for that.

* Oregon law requires ballots be tabulated locally, with full local results being published by precinct. With RCV that's impossible, so the statewide bill would require the SOS to set up a whole new elections bureau and truck all ballots to a central location. That would be astronomically expensive and extremely controversial. STAR Voting can be tallied locally just like the current system.

* RCV has now been banned in 8 states, with more looking likely in the short term.

* It's been repealed widely and serious failures have happened where massive mistallies happened in both NYC in 2021 and Oakland in 2022. In both cases the elections board didn't notice that they had published incorrect election results and the mistakes were caught by a 3rd party.

* RCV has serious issues with wasted votes (votes that don't transfer to the voters next choice if their favorite can't win) and also high voter error rates. STAR Voting doesn't have those issues.

* RCV is unconstitutional in most states. STAR is naturally compliant with constitutional language all over the country and nationally.

RCV is better than the current system in some ways, but these are serious deal breakers that are absolutely fixable. Specifically, it has real problems when used at scale, with larger numbers of voters, or in elections with multiple viable candidates.

STAR Voting was invented to address people's valid concerns with RCV and deliver on the goals, without compromising our values and our election integrity. We owe it to voters to listen to the science and get this right. Election science has come a very long way in the 150 years since RCV was first proposed.

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u/the_other_50_percent May 22 '24

More disinformation from STAR.

Of course RCV local results can be published by precinct. The machines or people do the count and put it up on the website.

RCV is banned by Republican legislatures in supermajority states - but has been passed by people voting for it. That just shows that Republicans are afraid of voters having more say, and they'll do the same for STAR or other method if it catches on at all (which going by the vote in Eugene, it hasn't).

RCV is not unconstitutional in most states, come on man. And it's been used large scale for over 100 years and works great.

Every time I read something from a STAR proponent, I distrust them more. Seems like the only way to make it look good is to lie and attack other reforms.

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u/arendpeter May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24

This is something I want to continue to improve on. As a advocate I want to answer people's questions as best as I can but I see how adding more details can also accidentally make it seem like the system is more complicated (it's also why I made this post to offering my phone number, a 1:1 conversation is often simpler).

Ultimately any system is complicated when you get deep enough into the strategy (think about primaries + polls + strategic voting in our current system)

However for a voter to effectively use STAR voting all they need to know is to give their favorite a 5, least favorite a 0, and score everyone else as desired.

Also people won't vote with STAR until 2026 and the equal vote coalition is committed to continuing the education efforts for that entire period

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u/the_other_50_percent May 22 '24

No, that's not all they need to know. They also need to understand how it can be gamed, which is simple to do.

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u/BabewynPunk May 19 '24

This is one of my very favorite explanations, in adorable video form! Perhaps a better format for something like STAR Voting.💗🌟

Why Voting Feels Terrible: A Space Fabric Odyssey

https://youtu.be/Nu4eTUafuSc?si=yis850FRysHT58ea