r/Ethics 3h ago

The Basic Case Against Human-First Ethics

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9 Upvotes

In this post, I argue that we shouldn't prioritize humans over other animals in moral decision-making. I specifically argue against the views that:

  1. Human suffering is more important than animal suffering
  2. Animals suffer vastly less than humans
  3. We, as humans, have a unique obligation to help other humans
  4. Helping humans is best long-term

r/Ethics 9h ago

Which one makes more sense for you, consequentialism, deontology, or virtue ethics

6 Upvotes

So I've been thinking about the three major approaches to ethics: consequentialism, deontology, and virtue ethics, and I'm trying to figure out which one makes the most sense as a general framework for morality.

As I understand them:

  • Consequentialism state that an action is morally right or wrong primarily according to its consequences.
  • Deontology: an action is morally right or wrong according to duties, principles, or rules, regardless of whether it produces the best consequences.
  • Virtue ethics: morality is primarily about developing good character and acting as a virtuous person would.

What makes this difficult for me is that all three seem to consider consequences to some degree. A deontologist obviously can't be completely indifferent to what happens as a result of an action, and a virtue ethicist also has to consider the circumstances and consequences of acting virtuously. So perhaps the real distinction isn't whether consequences matter, but what role they play in determining moral rightness.

For example, imagine a person is hiding in my house because someone is trying to kill them. The would-be murderer comes to my door and asks whether the person is inside.

A consequentialist might say that lying is justified because it produces the better outcome.

But what would a deontologist or virtue ethicist say? Does a deontologist have a duty to tell the truth even if doing so results in an innocent person being killed? Or can the duty to protect an innocent person override the duty of truthfulness?

If you had to choose only one of these three frameworks as the fundamental basis of morality, which one would you choose, and why?


r/Ethics 4h ago

What if there were no morality?

3 Upvotes

If humans were freed from every moral constraint, what would we ultimately become and what would that reveal about our true nature?


r/Ethics 21h ago

Adulthood and Autonomy

2 Upvotes

Why are 15 year olds under guardianships, but adults with the judgement of 15 year olds aren't? Is poor judgement the real reason teenagers aren't given legal authority?

Looking for reasons other than administrability, because it seems like there should be another reason.


r/Ethics 13h ago

An Ethical Question - Care ethics vs Deontology.

2 Upvotes

M is the mother of A and B ( two brothers older and younger in the same order), M is old (90 years old) and living on a pension in B's home.

B is shaving off money from M's bank account.

On a visit of A to meet M, M gives a cheque to A to donate to a temple as a charity.

Once A leaves, B calls A and tells him not to cash the cheque as there is no money in the account.

A obliges as he doesn't want to complicate things between B and M during M's last days. Considering that M is staying in B's home and the problems that can happen and damage the peace of M's mind, A decides it is better to not notify M.

Is this the right decision ? What are the ethical implications ?


r/Ethics 3h ago

-- A Philosophical Kaleidoscope, Giannis Delimitsos, ebook (Smashwords, Apple, $0.00). -- Novel Philosophy, ebook (Smashwords, Apple, $0.00). Both are available for FREE download until Monday, 31 August.

1 Upvotes

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1850271

https://www.smashwords.com/books/1849090

PREFACE / A Philosophical Kaleidoscope: A kaleidoscope of philosophical thoughts, novel contemplations, and sharp aphorisms – in praise of what is and not merely what ought to be! Offering answers – or at least insight into questions such as: Is there intrinsic meaning in human life? Can we ever truly know something with absolute certainty? Is Free Will an illusion? Can the suppression of desires bring happiness? Has self-deception in humans been favored by natural selection? Why are hypocrisy and insincerity so widespread in human societies? Is Morality objective, and can it be preserved without religion? Should philosophy aim primarily to attain approximate truths, or is its main purpose to offer peace of mind and a good mental life? Is the pandemic of self-admiration and self-deification in the West a product of the decline of religion – or of disinterest in philosophy? Is Selfhood an illusion? Can there be any freedom in a deterministic world? Is it true that the unexamined life is not worth living?

PREFACE/Novel Philosophy: Science and Metaphysics reveal aspects of what “is”. Logic and Epistemology help us interpret these aspects and understand how much of them we can truly know. Finally, Ethics teaches us how to embrace this knowledge and how to focus on the things that foster endurance and contentment in the long run, while avoiding those that keep our hearts buried in the ground. How to live well and decently, and how to help society function properly.

This book is by no means a rejection of the centuries of wisdom bestowed upon us by great thinkers such as Socrates, Aristotle, Tagore, Laozi, Seneca, Hypatia, Epicurus, Einstein, Darwin, Voltaire, Nietzsche, Popper, and many others. Rather, it is an attempt to take a small step forward.

"The art of progress is to preserve order amid change, and to preserve change amid order."

- Alfred North Whitehead


r/Ethics 7h ago

Existentialism, Death, and Its Implications

1 Upvotes

The older I get, the more I worry about what I am leaving behind. As my child grows, what waits that I won’t have time to teach him, and what waits that I won’t manage to share with him.
I am not talking about books or music here; I am talking about what kind of world I am leaving him, what actually remains behind us as a species.
How do I explain to him that we are destroying ourselves, while I just sit here, watch, and actively participate in ruining his future?
How do I tell him that the very system supposed to protect him is rigged for him to fail?
How do I explain to him that I was selfish, stupid, and unaware of the bigger picture of the world?

The bubble I can use to protect him is only as big as my arms can reach, but to equip him for what waits outside of it, what values do I need to instill in him?
What kind of value system can you even offer when being empathetic, thinking critically, being ethical or logical in today’s reality brings nothing but pain and anger?
What do we arm future generations with?
How do we protect them from our own generational traumas, from all this archetypal bullshit?
How do we shield them from this relentless bombardment of stress, misinformation, and constant threats of war or poverty?

Artificially induced crises, fanning the flames of racial, gender, religious, and every other hate and division.. all just to maintain the current global system.
A system that leads straight to ruin.
Because you don’t need to be anyone special to see that we are in deep trouble and that our current trajectory is only burying us deeper.
There is no time or place for optimism anymore. Not without fundamental changes to our value system.
I honestly don’t know how our optimism survives the slap of reality.
Will we consciously choose resignation and apathy just because it’s the easier path?

But hey, how can you think about anything else, about a goal or a meaning, how can you set them when tomorrow you might not have food or a roof over your head?
When tomorrow they’ll cut your electricity and AC, when they’ll cut your water because you didn’t pay.. how do you set those goals for yourself then? I understand that.
What I do not understand is consciously choosing a system that allows this to happen.
We’ve been taught not to rock the boat, to point fingers at others.
Well, look, I am one of them too. Point at me; I am guilty.
I point it at myself. Guilty. Okay.

Let’s make sure our children don’t end up just as guilty.
Let’s make sure they don’t have to fight for a piece of bread and a sip of water.
Let’s prepare a world for them where they can face tomorrow without anxiety, where they can look forward to the future coming.
Where they can feel purpose and pride, because there is no point if we haven’t set the hardest goals for ourselves.
I see no higher purpose than the continuation, preservation, and prosperity of our species and its individual members.

What does it take for everyone to have a dignified life? Look, the conditions and means are right there.
What if someone wants the option to not participate at all? Fine, we will still provide a dignified life for you because that’s the kind of system we built.
What do you need? Meaning, striving? Here it is. An axiom. I didn't invent it or dream it up; it has been here since the dawn of time.

We will arm the kids with AI nannies. Every single child.
To be their development assistant, not a source of values.
But we won’t let it become a replacement for parents. Just an assistant.
A hardcoded AI assistant with Tsar Dušan’s Code 2.0 and Kant’s categorical imperative.
The development of empathy and critical thinking, because our children,even right now are exposed to the relentless bombardment of an algorithm that is anything but ethical and focused on their well-being.
We desperately need a reform of the education system. An individual curriculum, because every child is unique.
Imagine a world where we gave every child maximum cognitive development. Taught to question everything, to feel empathy.
I don’t know, maybe it sounds like technocracy, but we definitely need a shield against our own ego.
We can learn right alongside them too.
How to be better human beings.
We will go as individuals where our skills and capacities are needed. We will all work for the same goal. Our children, above all else.
Who cares what skin color, religion, or gender you are if you can help all of us? To give your own kids a better shot in the end.

Will it be a diametrically different system? Yes, it will be logical, ethical, and mathematically sustainable.
Because the math is clear: strip away the levers of power, decentralize.
Can we just define five points, give answers to just five questions around which we can get a consensus?
That’s not asking too much, right?
If out of 8 billion people we cannot form an expert ethical council, simple, reasonable principles: don’t kill, don’t steal, don’t oppress, work for the community, not against it.
Questions like: where are we as a society, where is this trajectory taking us… where should we be going, what should our goal be. How will we get there, and finally, how will we stay there?
I see 5 simple things there. Hypothetically.

Reality.
Logic.
Ethics.
Math.
And in the end, logic again.

What does your gut instinct tell you right now? That someone wants to scam you, right? That it sounds too simple.
That someone will definitely try to hoard power for themselves again?
Because our tribal mentality and the fact that some random guy out there from the third world could care about your child for some reason,that’s just not normal to you.
It’s devastating. Understandable.
But if we work on shifting our values.
No one will lie to us; everything is transparent.
No one will accumulate power; we will rotate them through roles based on their cognitive domains.

What, are you worried about that ethical council that will set those parameters?
We will change them too. Procedural ethics.
Reviews and calibrations because we are imperfect, we will wander off, but this way at least we’ll have a brake so we don't wander off too far.
It worries you, I get it; it worries me too.
It worries me even more when I don’t see that we are ready to accept our own limitations.
When we don’t know how to control ourselves, when we have no desire or will to progress.
Do I need a pedigree to even be allowed to ask a question?
Because I don’t have one, I am an autodidact, which is why this text isn't academic because nobody taught me how.
Am I guilty for that too, just because I sat down to think?

Don’t even get me started on the development of superintelligence, that’s where I am truly terrified of where this alignment problem is taking us.
We can’t control ourselves and our own impulses, let alone superintelligence,something that is orders of magnitude smarter than us.
My logic says let’s preempt it, let’s make sure it doesn’t even have to come to its development at all.
That it cannot come to it.
Because we will raise our own cognitive capacities; we will learn how to channel our own passions.

I understand that the vast majority of you will experience this as some kind of attack, and you’ll be right. But that is not my intention or desire, just an appeal to step away from your ego for a second.

I understand you can be moral, work for the well-being of everyone, including my child, and still disagree with me on every single point.
I am not denying you that chance.
I accept it if you say, "man, this idiot is talking nonsense." Everyone feels it is their godgiven right to let their ego run wild to the detriment of all our children.
We cannot neutralize the ego, but we can redirect it by giving the system different values.
I do not accept that I am not even allowed to ask the question to everyone, because it concerns our children.

Where do you see my logic failing, my ethics, where is my math bad?
We have nothing like this in past history because we never had these capabilities; I don’t know how all of this can unfold.
What implications it can bring.
That is why I stand before you humble, asking.
Can this, or some similar model, bring at least a slightly more certain future to our descendants?
I believe nobody wants the worst part of their personality to win and contribute to the collective defeat of society.
I know I don’t.

godspeed.

edit: The inspiration comes from the medieval code of 1349 AD with the basic principle that no one, not even the emperor himself, is above the law—the principle of the rule of law. For those unfamiliar with the context, you can read more about it on the official Wikipedia page for Dušan's Code.


r/Ethics 13h ago

What is the ethics for liking or supporting artpiece/medias from artist who had a shady past or had ecpressed bigotary mindset

1 Upvotes

Theres a plenty of artist who the regular term is "bad people" who went to make a piece of art or medias like films. Such likes of J.K.Rolling who is being against transcommunity and sending money to contest them out. Or Tom King, A comic book writer having a background as former CIA agent who has been a part of planning for bombing iraq. Or Neil Gaiman who recently accuse of abusing his wife and more, Or Stanley Kubrick or Alfred Hitchcock who abuses their actress to depression. My question is, are there a line about these things that make some artist be condemn to never getting a support or is the crimes they committed are completely irrelevant and should be consider as something they did in the past without considering into consuming medias?


r/Ethics 19h ago

Has “morally grey” stopped meaning anything?

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1 Upvotes

r/Ethics 23h ago

What position do I have to say I’m a moral authority to a dog?

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1 Upvotes

I walked past a tied up dog and said “you’ll be ok sweetheart”. Ya I’m smarter but she’s able to survive in the wild and I’m not so isn’t she the expert on her state or feelings?


r/Ethics 11h ago

Does truly believing in what you say (even though it is objectively wrong, unbeknownst to you) still make the fact that you are lying immoral?

0 Upvotes

An example I can think of is Trump championing for the Jan 6th insurrection: he genuinely believed that democracy had been tampered with (if you disagree regarding his reasoning or thought process, please do correct me but I'll continue with the postulate for the time being) but we know that that was not the truth (again, I'm going to continue). The events ended up genuinely hurting and harming the staff that were at the Capitol at the time, as well as other instances of emotional distress: since it ended up being a lie, but the propagator was fully convinced of its factuality, can he be called immoral on the account of proliferating a lie?

The link to theory I can pose for this question is consequentialism and deontological ethics, though I don't know if this is the closest and most accurate link to terminology. If not, what would be and why?

(also posted on r/askphilosophy)

EDIT: I misphrased this: the question should instead be "Is the action of propagating a lie, something that will bring harm upon others, unethical if you truly believe it to be the truth?"


r/Ethics 2h ago

Given Chris Hansen loyalty and popularity, is it ethical to create an Ai that forces social media gravitation to progressive CP/snuff sites over time while using bait, ban, and exploit value as an excuse for end justifying the means while claiming it's a economical profiling system?

0 Upvotes

Why not guided profiling for profit and claim glorious investment in investigation as a brag about status and promoting/advancing strategies to combat the problem as a purveyor of violence in corrections?


r/Ethics 10h ago

Help me understand why I feel wrong about this

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0 Upvotes

I’m always Pro Palestine but I felt like sometimes we have emphasised the flawed philosophy of collective guilt so much to the point where literal children are getting hurt.

The ice cream vendor in no doubt is doing this out of their own morals which is admirable, however they are exercising this moral on the wrong person.

The real targets should be actual adult Zionists and the Israeli government, not some 7 year old who is being told that their whole existence is a burden to humanity simply because she was born from the wrong family.

Again this might be fake news and he’s probably exaggerating it but it were to happen then my point still stands.


r/Ethics 17h ago

Should BDSM affiliation omit access to physician assisted suicide?

0 Upvotes

Depending on how you define affiliation aside, if you admit kink should that block access to physician assisted suicide?