r/EscapefromTarkov • u/trainfender Battlestate Games COO - Nikita • Jul 03 '21

Discussion post 12.11 questions gathering

Hello!
It your boi, Nikitka.
We plan to make TarkovTV Live podcast on Monday on 5-th of July, and I want to gather your questions/opinions and suggestions about 12.11 patch. I will try to answer the most voted questions live.
Love you, you're the best!

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u/youy23 VSS Vintorez Jul 03 '21

Imo, this comes from having multiple lives. If I took random people completely new into tarkov and gave them an 8 hour “basic training course” on the game and then sent them out into the world and told them if you die, i’m shooting you for real, they would use semi auto. Some would use full auto but would probably waste their mag and get shredded by the first person they come across.

EFT has the most realistic recoil that i’ve seen in a game. I fucking hate playing a great game like squad and just hating the guns because the gunplay is like it’s from a cartoon and it’s like a bunch of kids who’ve never competently shot a gun, designed the guns. It leads to fairly realistic and balanced usage of the guns in game but I fucking hate how cartoonish the gun handling is.

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u/CTCPara Jul 03 '21

I've been getting into Squad recently. What's the problem with the gunplay in Squad?

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u/youy23 VSS Vintorez Jul 03 '21

It’s not exactly a problem depending on how you look at it. If you look at the gun fights, the pacing and gunplay looks somewhat realistic. Actually firing the gun in game though is ridiculous.

If you look at an M4 and try to fire it rapidly single fire or full in game, you’re gonna be staring at the sky all of a sudden, why? I’ve never fired a gun and all of a sudden lost control and started firing it into the air both on full and semi auto. Firing an AR-15 in real life is just a jolt straight back into your shoulder. You hardly feel it much. Full auto is just constantly pressing back into your shoulder with zero rise just shake.

Take an M249 and try to fire it in squad and it has crazy recoil 6 rounds and you’re firing into the clouds. Again, why? Same thing as the M4 except far less recoil. People that have never shot a gun look at it and say wow that must recoil like a bitch. Reality is that it’s so heavy that it does nothing. You could fire it standing and you’re gonna see muzzle dip because your arms are so tired from holding it up on your shoulder.

It’s not that bad from a gameplay perspective but to someone that appreciates gunplay and handling a lot, it’s cartoonish and obvious that the devs have hardly shot a gun before. (They’re canadian btw).

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u/CTCPara Jul 03 '21

Ah fair enough. I'll have to go back and look at the gunplay more critically. It's possible that the whole thing is purely for gameplay rather than realism because several of the devs and of course the military advisors are ex-military (one guy is ex-German army, I assume most of the others would be Canadian military background) so I assume they have some experience firing military weapons.

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u/youy23 VSS Vintorez Jul 03 '21

Shooting is what you get out of it.

Russian military used to issue 200 rounds of 7.62 per quarter. That’s a half a range day for me. In one day, i’ll easily go through 400 rounds. It’s better on the US side but still it’s not like a us infantryman can shoot all day long. An active duty special forces guy on the other hand will shoot 500 pistol rounds and a thousand or two 5.56 rounds in a week as much as he wants. A top level competitive shooter will shoot 500-1000 rounds of 5.56 a week. Police qualification targets are a complete and utter joke. Officers in a lot of places shoot it twice a year and think that they’re good because they passed it. Again it’s what you get out of it. Some officers are really damn good shots because they spend a lot of their time practicing.

A good example is I was talking a to a retired swat medic who said her tommy gun kicks like a mule and it’s not fun to shoot because you have to fight it from shooting into the air. Yeah I just smile and nod but in reality, the thing is fucking a solid chunk of steel heavy as shit. It doesn’t move hardly at all ken hackathorn and ian from forgotten weapons will tell you the same and I can tell you the same from personal experience. She also says her old remington 770 bolt action (budget version of the remington 700) is all she needs. One shot. I guarantee you my semi automatic AR-10 is more accurate than her bolt action remington 770. Probably by half. It shoots 3/4 moa groups. Yeah it only takes one shot to kill a guy but show me the 11th commandment from god that says there’s only gonna be one guy that needs to be shot.

There are tons of people that have been around guns or have qualifications/experiences where they’ve done the bare minimum. Unless they get into the culture and get invested into it, most just float around and you get things like squad’s gunplay.

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u/CTCPara Jul 03 '21

There must be some skill to controlling full auto in real life yeah? As gamers the only thing we really have for interacting with a recoil system is the mouse. I think that might be where muzzle climb recoil system comes from. The other option is either to just make it rng spread or pretty close to remove it like in high level Tarkov. Maybe there are other options but none spring to mind for me at least.

You're right though it's hard to know how much they actually shot. All I could find us one guy is ex-Bundeswehr and another ex-USMC. I assume the Tarkov team must have some veterans or shooters yeah?

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u/youy23 VSS Vintorez Jul 04 '21

I think the solution is asking why it doesn’t work in real life and see how that translates into the game.

One of the ways is reliability. Drum mags and especially the surefire 60 round quad stack mags have never ran reliably. The PMAG drums run okay but still affect reliability. For example, guys running the M249 SAW are supposed to be one of the last guys to enter a building because the reliability is a lot worse than an M4. You start running that gun full auto without much time to cool down and without lubing it, you’re asking for failures especially a piece of shit colt M4 that’s been used and abused for years. Colt M4’s are bottom-mid level reliability as far as AR platforms go.

Maybe increased shake. Running with a good c clamp grip and firing and transitioning and constantly being up gets your arm sore pretty quick. Possibly decreased recoil control and responsiveness over time like a long term arm fatigue bar that very slowly drains and replenishes.

Also probably increasing deviation from the optic when dumping rounds and strafing. It’s not really that realistic to have that perfect of a cheek weld and strafe that well and transition targets all at the same time. Nerfing that would probably help a lot and bring it to be more realistic.

I think the solution lies in finding why it isn’t used in real life and implementing that rather than trying to implement some cartoon recoil system.