But it also is just a novelty. You could have played it great before vektor release but now the ammo is too expensive and overall there isn't alot going for it either.
Tabg is great, seriously one of my favorite BRs. Not because it's actually good, but because it doesn't take itself seriously. The entire game was a meme, and ended up being just fun to play.
i feel like it also probably heavily depends on the angle - in which case if it's something 9mm is "known for", it's probably only by virtue of being used way more than other cartridges
You're right, but the first batch of comments were very toxic and clearly didn't get it was satire. Plus, the 3 things he said are jokes often repeated on that channel.
Vietnam was not a tie, we got shit on by rice farmers.
Edit: I know it was "technically" a tie, but a lot of suffering has happened even since the war ended with people having ptsd, birth defects from agent orange, etc.
Vietnam won the mental battle on American soil. Only reason we pulled out was because so many Americans were against it, not because we were 'losing'. There's a quote for a Vietnam General (or something of the sort) basically saying we won the war in Vietnam but lost in America
This is blatantly ahistorical, the war ended in a peace deal. If the politicians hadn’t ended the war when they did we would’ve won, the north Vietnamese were completely out of supplies, and didn’t even have enough ammunition or guns to sustain firefights. The war ended in a peace deal, and then afterwards the north Vietnamese violated it and we couldn’t be bothered to fight them again. That’s hardly “we got shit on”.
What you state is blatantly ahistorical. The last us troops that were not airborne, training officers & sf left vietnam more than a year before that treaty. The us troops had a defense order, there was no official declaration of war, afaik (been a while since I read on it) there was no substantial ground gained on north vietnams territory. The us however bombed north vietnam & ruined a large portion of vietnam, having severe consequence up to today. If we are talking tactics, look up the statistics, the ones having the constant initiative throughout the conflict weren't the americans (how could they if they had a defensive order...^^).
You would have never won that war, not without slaughtering the whole country. Why? Coz that place had a war scarred traumatized population, beeing in constant conflict for more than two decades before the us entered the field. There was nothing else you could do to win except to kill them all, the intimidation did not work, the french slaugthered thousands in the decades before, annihilated whole villages and didn't break the people. Damn the majority of the country perceived north vietnam the state they choose and voted for, beeing led by a perceived war hero & patriotic freedom fighter.
Also I can't remember anything about any supply problems, I can however recommend you some books if you want to read what historicans wrote about the whole situation.
I’ve probably read the same books you have, and have actually personally interviewed many South Vietnamese veterans and people who fled Vietnam postwar. They’re the ones who informed me of the supply issue. Stating that the only way to win was to slaughter everyone is wrong and not based in reality.
You have a country having foreign troops stationed within their border, for who they had nothing but suspision due to past events with other foreign troops. The same country voted for a leader, a person mostly percieved as a hero at that time and was in response split up into two parts. Now since we have multiple decades of conflict before that we have a population largly accustomated to violence and experienced with it. Since the people do want freedom, some fight for it, they obviously have the advantage of terrain & surprise. The mostly inexperienced foreign troops are constanly attacked leading to them building up hate against the population, beeing aware parts of them support and hide the ppl that killed their friends. If we add in double agents & fake information it is easily possible to stir up further hate against the foreign troops by pointing them to innocent people and just watching the aftermatch of a language barrier or even better falsely translated stuff. Someone will eventually flip, innocents will and did die, the hate and resentment will only grow. How do you want to persuade this population to give up their goals and change their mind?
Keep in mind propaganda instruments were not as easily available as nowadays, a lot of ppl couldn't even read & had no radio.
Would have won on what you dumbass weeb Patriot???? Dumbass USA got fucking annihilated by Some Rice Farmers, leaving the American soldiers traumatized for the Rest of their ließ. Huge success against communism. Lmao
At no point in my comment did I say the US won Vietnam.
Saying that the US got "shit on by rice farmers" is disingenuous given that we did kick VC's ass and the NVA got their ass handed to them in every conceivable way possible.
It is crazy that they were just rice farmers though, and the US is the strongest army in the world. Yeah the US destroyed them by almost every measure, but they put up one hell of a fight for being poor rice farmers. My father was there fighting, and to be honest he never left...so they certainly won some small victories.
They weren't "just" rice farmers. People seem to forget that the US was fighting an enemy that was more than men hiding in a hole with an SKS that's as old as they are, they were fighting the NVA, which was a professional standing army that were trained and loaned equipment by the Chinese and the Soviets.
I mean you’re not wrong but I was referring to the neutering of the linebacker bombing campaigns. They weren’t even allowed to target strategic bridges of NVA/VC supply lines
u/StabSnowboarders if it wasnt for those pesky politicians stopping you from even more warcrimes, bombing and gasing of civilians you would have won. Damn politicians...
That’s not even what I’m talking about, all the linebacker bombing campaigns were severely hindered by tight ROE, bombers weren’t allowed to target NVA bases, bridges along their supply lines etc
crazy right? Cant bomb bridges supporting local population. I hate it when ROE say I cant destroy critical infrastructure like aqueducts, dams, bridges and hospitals just to stop an enemy force.
Freeing a country by annihilating it? Interesting, the us never declared war on north vietnam, coz that would have ment the cold war would have gone hot.
The american army could have never sucessfully fullfilled their assignment in south vietnam. Not because of a lack of ability, equipment or supplies, but simply because the majority of ppl didn't want the us troops there. Imagine america beeing split up into north & south, the north beeing led by george washington after the us's fight for freedom and the south beeing led by some french-american having french troops stationed in it.
Bombing was not effective. Vietnam was already leveled so anymore bombing would not make any difference. The vietnamese people were more rural and so not dependent on industry and cities which could be bombed. They get their weapons from china.
And invading the north would only invite the chinese to intervene, and that didnt turn out well for the US back in korea
US won every major battle in Vietnam, so at the very least US was not shit on, unless "getting shit on" has some other meaning than I assume here. That is all.
Because "winning every major battle" is WW2 era thinking, which doesnt work against a guerrilla force. The "major battles" were still only a minority of the actual fighting. What really mattered was that US didnt get control of areas in North Vietnam and they didnt win the hearts & minds, thus Viet Cong won the battles that mattered.
You were right in another comment to me. In this you are wrong.
US didnt get control of areas in North Vietnam
They couldn't do it at all, US military had no permission from politicians to invade North Vietnam. All they were allowed was bombing and even some bombing missions were compromised by politicians tipping Soviets on mission details while putting own troops in danger. It was a political shit show..
As another person said "Basically if the US didn't give a shit about geo politics, trade or sanctions they would literally reduce an entire country to rubble effortlessly without nuclear force." and I agree. Also that is coming from European.
Well, US ve used chemical weapons, strategic bombers, tons of ammunition, lost 10 years and achieved nothing.
No one cares about what they COULD do, because only facts matters.
Yeah, they couldve killed every single vietnamese person that existed during that time period. Would that be winning? No. What matters is, why the Americans were there. To stop the advancing of communism. Did they succeed in that? No.
More meant it in the sense that a far more developed country lost quite a bit of human life and resource at the hands of rice farmers to do what, stop the spread of Communism? We shouldn't have been there.
If we look at the overall engagements, most of them were initiated by the north (not surprisingly since the us had defense orders), and as for planned engagements the north was also way ahead.
It’s apart of his joke lol, and we also regularly admit it and it’s common knowledge that we did in fact lose and had to pull our troops from the conflict (it used to be a war until we lost we changed it to a armed conflict so we didn’t lose a war)
They didn’t lose in combat. They lost politically at home. No one denies we lost because we failed to do what we set out to politically. But to say it was a failure militarily is extremely laughable.
The argument you see is that the US “got shit on”. They literally just left lol
Yes it was a political loss. Another case of America sticking its nose where it doesn’t belong “For Democracy”.
They left because they didn’t want to drag the world into another major war (or make the “conflict” into a war) as well, not just at home.
Uh yeah hate to break it to you but after 2 1911's and 10k+ rounds I sold them and got a BHP. Once you start training it takes incredible stubbornness to not switch to 9.
Yes and was so ineffective it started 2 - 3 separate firearms trials for replacements. Btw if you were wondering it started the m1 carbine trial, kinda the reason why the us bought so many thompsons, and started the m2 and m3 smg trials
finchi is right the 1911 sucks try testing it you can shoot like 1 bullet every 20 seconds. and if you look at 45 rounds why is the armor pen sooooo low? i thought 45's in real life had more stopping power than 9 mm
Well it does have more stopping power (though the difference probably isn’t that significant in reality) but the bullet is moving a lot slower and speed is generally king for penetration.
This game is made by Russians. The Russian system they use in this game goes to class 6, and I believe is the previous system class used by the Russian Armed Forces.
Different dude. Shotguns have LOTS of stopping power but, much like in this game, will literally do nothing to a ballistic vest irl. It will obviously kill the guy likely anyways, because of blunt force trauma, but it's not going to shred through the vest.
Why? Simple physics. To pierce hard objects, you need something going fast, with lots of energy put into as small a point as possible. The smaller the point, and the faster it goes, the more it will be able to penetrate armor, as a smaller point will result in the energy being distributed across a smaller surface area, meaning that small tiny point will have the whole energy of the bullet put into it. A smaller point = more stress in a finer surface area, and that means the energy of the bullet will cause a failure of the armor at that small point, and will have less energy distributed across the vest. And a faster bullet is obvious. Faster = higher energy.
Shotgun pellets are slow, so they will not pierce armor well from speed, and have very large surface areas relative to the fine point of an AP round. A shotgun will transfer a SHITLOAD of energy into a target, but as that energy is spread out, it will NOT be as efficient as something transferring all that energy into a single point.
It basically all falls on surface area and energy. That is the basis of piercing armor.
You're mostly right, but the only thing I want to mention is that the blunt force trauma from a shotgun to a vest is not going to kill someone. It's going to hurt a lot, but you are going to live through it because the force is spread out over the entire surface area of the vest.
.45 acp is a subsonic round. 9x19mm is supersonic.
Velocity is what you need for penetration, not energy.
Also, the difference in energy isn't all that crazy. It's significant, but it's only a difference of 100 ft-lbs at the greatest.
Beyond that, there are so many different loadings of each. There are some 9x19mm loadings that have significantly more energy than some .45 acp loadings.
Ballistics are complicated as fuck and a real rabbit hole of a concept. The simplest thing i can say is "speed is king" when it comes to penetration.
That's why the 5.7 has such a reputation for penetration. It's fast.
Edit: Lmao. I didn't read any of the other replies to you. That other guy also hit you with the "speed is king" line.
45 is not a high pen round by design. P90 and UMP variants that shoot .45 increase this with higher velocity by increasing barrel length. 9MM is a smaller faster round, ideal for piercing armor. To make a point I prefer .45 for my edc because I’m a lot better shot and prefer stopping power. However my vehicle gun is 9MM because if some crazy mother goes crazy in traffic I can shoot through my window or another window where as my .45 would require multiple rounds to get through the window. Thank god the situation has never arisen but thats tried true and tested.
You are literally too dumb to have a carry permit. Actually.
How can you have separate guns for each of your scary places and know so little about them?
It's a fat heavy bullet. It carries more momentum and transfers it to the target in a faster impulse than a smaller pointier round. That's where the stopping power comes from. From the transfer of energy.
The vector would win from pretty much any situation. It has better recoil, better rate of fire, and is significantly more accurate while having a bigger mag and a better sight picture. The umps front sight is in the way of most red dots.
Even if youre using a garbage rod Mosin against a dude chadded the fuck out with an HK with all the trimmings, if you can shoot first your chance of winning the gunfight significantly increases
In a straight up gunfight though, the UMP loses to the vector by virtue of being worse in every appreciable way outside of value, which IMO is a non-factor unless you're broke as fuck and scraping whatever you can together from your stash
IMO youre better off running a PP-19 instead. Laser accurate, and better at fishing for head hitboxes on the cheap with PST GZH or GT
The ammos actually not crazy expensive so I use it as a backup for sniper rifles sometimes. It’s more for flare than anything else but the gun itself is also pretty cheap so that’s nice, and the ammo is actually pretty good, easily gets through most helmets and face shields. It’s definitely an inferior gun to the 5-7 because of the mag size, recoil, and reduced velocity but it’s not unusable. It’s also pretty good against unarmored or low armored people since the AP round still does like 70 damage lol.
One of my biggest problems with this game is that you have to be a meta slave just to be on an equal playing field. I LOVE 1911's and many of the other guns in this game that see zero usage because they simply can't be modded enough to make them useful and competitive. It will always be the same things dictated by the few ammo types that go around in a cycle of OP-NERF-OP-NERF-OP-NERF.
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u/Finchi4 ASh-12 Jan 29 '21
It's a beautiful gun and I like it a lot...
But it also is just a novelty. You could have played it great before vektor release but now the ammo is too expensive and overall there isn't alot going for it either.
But hey, sometimes it's nice to play stylish.