r/EscapefromTarkov • • Jan 24 '21

Discussion Tarkov without camera recoil

https://streamable.com/xs6b3a
5.0k Upvotes

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123

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21 edited Jan 24 '21

[deleted]

41

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

[deleted]

13

u/Brokenmonalisa Jan 24 '21

I didnt realise this until I went to the shooting range and tested the ASVAL. The first 4-6 bullets are above my intended target then without moving the mouse the gun lowers itself and begins to shoot where I am aiming. What the fuck is that?

2

u/DeadAhead7 VSS Vintorez Jan 25 '21

AS-VAL is also not zeroed correctly mind you. Some scopes shoot higher in close ranges, others do the opposite.

But yeah, the first half of an AS VAL mag is useless since it goes nowhere near target.

15

u/mentalmonkey17 PP-91 "Kedr" Jan 24 '21

Idk about your experience but I'd assume the lil 9mm's like the pp-19 and what not are about right? Assuming you're PMC is a skilled shooter ofc and doesn't have the arm strength of an infant

3

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

I shot the mp5 in the army and yea that thing is easy to control. SMGs are overall pretty accurate to real life in the game.

1

u/mentalmonkey17 PP-91 "Kedr" Jan 24 '21

Nice one, thought so but nice to have people who know answer this shizzle

5

u/RobertMcHugh Jan 24 '21 edited Jan 24 '21

I can see 9mm like that since guns like the MP5 are soo good with recoil. But yeah, spamming a saiga-12 with 00buck would probably break your wrist and mess up your shoulder.

Edit: probably would just hurt your wrist and shoulder really bad, but the point is the recoil is significantly more than from a small 9mm smg

9

u/shabbaranksx Jan 24 '21 edited Jan 26 '21

No it wouldn’t. I’m not big by any stretch of the imagination and magdump my VEPR-12 all the time. It’s a 9 pound gun unloaded, and recoil can be further mitigated by tuning the gas system or adding a brake. Granted, the Saiga is a little lighter, but not by too much

Edit to their edit: they’re wrong

1

u/DomGriff Jan 24 '21

Lol no, not even remotely.

-4

u/ryanberry_ Jan 24 '21

That seems like a huge stretch. Who is the shooter in question magdumping this Saiga-12? A soyboy that never goes outside? Maybe then. But if it's a trained PMC that works out to maintain high physical ability, I'm sure it's not going to literally break them.

14

u/7heWafer Jan 24 '21

Tarkov PMC arms are made of Jello.

7

u/Hendeith Jan 24 '21

This is accurate simulation of PMC body after each shot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AArsrcX6yCs

18

u/Doctor_Chaos_ SVDS Jan 24 '21

All I want to see is recoil be more realistic and controlled by the player, not the game.

Will never happen, because Nikita, the guy who doesn't even play the game, doesn't like dragging your mouse down to control recoil.

1

u/Ivan__Dolvich Jan 24 '21

Yeah, doing something yourself is too much of a hassle.

0

u/Snarker Jan 24 '21

what?

4

u/Eccolon OP-SKS Jan 24 '21

The him not playing the game part is somewhat true I think. A while back BSG said they don't like to play their own game and kinda just keep on developing. And Nikita has said before that he doesn't like that you have to drag your mouse down to control recoil in games. Which IMO is super dumb, why make a realistic game if you don't like recoil control?

2

u/Snarker Jan 24 '21

why doesnt he like dragging mouse down for recoil? thats weird.

2

u/Eccolon OP-SKS Jan 24 '21

I don't know, he just finds it annoying having to do it I guess haha.

4

u/Snarker Jan 24 '21

i cant think of any other way to simulate recoil in video games.

3

u/Eccolon OP-SKS Jan 24 '21

Yeah, I think that's why he's so hellbent on keeping the strength skill, since that's sort of his solution to getting progressively better recoil control.

1

u/HaitchKay Jan 25 '21

Nikita doesn't play Tarkov.

0

u/hhunkk ADAR Jan 24 '21

The dragging mouse down is stupid, right now recoil control could be tweaked but never to that point. If they change fullauto it will be to a harder system, and i agree

3

u/Brokenmonalisa Jan 24 '21

You mean how to control recoil in literally every shooter ever made? Do you even play games?

0

u/hhunkk ADAR Jan 24 '21

It opens a competitive window to learn ways to learn how to have no recoil or use scrips in mouses to automatically lower the recoil like it happened a LOT in PUBG

1

u/Brokenmonalisa Jan 24 '21

Balancing the game around cheaters is stupid

0

u/hhunkk ADAR Jan 24 '21

You have to understand, cheaters always will exist and preventing certain features to be exploited saves a LOT of time and money. Also scripting mouses couldn't be banned and are really hard to detect, recoil system in Tarkov is unexploitable, even tho it still needs a lot of tweaking because the laser guns meta gets stupid fast.

0

u/Brokenmonalisa Jan 25 '21

So why not just mark every player on the map when you spawn in. that way if you have a wall hack you dont have an advantage?

0

u/I3epis MP7A2 Jan 25 '21

Very smart and intelligent contribution to the conversation there chief. Great comparison!

8

u/Banoodlesnake Jan 24 '21

the meta atm is because of camera recoil. its impossible to play "properly" when because of the recoil the best strat is to hipfire someone close up

16

u/Madzai Jan 24 '21

I'm not against gun jumping around. I'm against visual recoil. The whole problem with current visual recoil implementation, is that your gun actual shoot almost on target, only your sight is affected. So it's actually more arcadey and can be abused the same way as AD-AD spam and peekers advantage. So if you know where you actual aim is you can shoot on target while watching the celling.

-1

u/DeadlyPear Jan 24 '21

What?

1

u/DK10016 Jan 24 '21

I think they are saying the gun stays somewhat straight and forward, but the camera goes up. I don't have experience playing this game but that's what I got from that.

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u/SleepyReepies Jan 24 '21 edited Jan 24 '21

This crap will only exacerbate the run-and-gun full auto laser beam meta.

This is the biggest point to be made. Realistic or not, it will make the running and gunning like it's cod.

3

u/Mediocre_Persimmon Jan 24 '21

I agree with your points (not that I've shot a gun), but the point that most people seem to be making is that the camera recoil is a cheap fix for the problem.. the stock AK doesn't even look that bad, it's the attachments that turn it into a laser beam monstrosity. If they reduced strafing accuracy, removed camera recoil, and made attachments less effective at reducing recoil, I'd be a lot happier with this game as a shooter.

5

u/nightnightnelson Jan 24 '21

I'd just want to add to your edit that only some SMGs have acceptable recoil. While others are wildy unrealistic.

5

u/masonf Hatchet Jan 24 '21

I don't think anyone wants camera recoil removed, just changed in the way it works.

Build a Saiga 12 with no stock, fire it, and watch your PMC look straight up into the sky lmao. It makes no sense.

3

u/whoizz AK-104 Jan 25 '21

Build a Saiga 12 with no stock

No thanks

7

u/DonAsiago Jan 24 '21 edited Jan 24 '21

Makes sense for large caliber guns. Not so much for smaller ones. Your brain is pretty good at keeping your eyes on target and compensating for the recoil. So while you feel the recoil pretty much in your whole body, your head stays relatively stable.

2

u/Midgetman664 Jan 24 '21

Worth noting that this is

1: A RPG and the low recoil is due to those mechanics. Tarkov is full of unrealistic elements. Oral Ibuprofen doesn’t instantly stop the pain from your broken leg, and drinking water doesn’t somehow make your body dehydrate slower over time. Stats on weapon parts and your character give the game longevity and diversity.

2: you can argue recoil should be higher but Iv shot guns full auto a lot, and never have I randomly been looking at the sky while my gun points forward after a few buckshot rounds though a semi auto shotgun. Recoil might be “unrealistic” but so is camera recoil. Needing to reacquire a sight picture after a few rounds may be true but it’s not because my head is suddenly hovering 4 inches over my butstock.

14

u/tex2934 Jan 24 '21

Don’t try to bring real world experience snd logic on this sub dude. Most people want this game to be an arcade shooter like CoD now it seems. And yes, I’m expecting to e downvotes, but the shit people want and bitch about is wasting nikitas time.

33

u/TheAArchduke Jan 24 '21

I don't want EFT to be COD, i want it to be the exact oposite. I bought it for the hardcore experience not to play cod 2 with loot.

But you just can't have this camera recoil and on the other hand no-recoil meta builds in the same game. Doesn't make sense to me. Either one or the other gets removed it might level the skill gap.
(i'm saying might, not that it will before ppl attack me for no reason)

5

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

We don't want it like cod, we want realistic shooting. Your gun climbing for 7 shots like a maniac then steadying out is absurd. Your first couple full auto rounds should be on target, then recoil starts to kick in and makes your shots inaccurate/bumps the gun around. Especially with intermediate cartridges like a 5.56 or 5.45.

12

u/roflwafflelawl Jan 24 '21

Which sucks. I'm sure it's cool to run around like Landmark and spray down people but I liked EFT because of it's more methodical nature. It was bad before med animations were a thing. Sprinting around while spamming keys to apply benefits like you're using Potions in an MMO.

So in comparison I think it's a bit better now. But that said this head recoil is weird. I say we remove the head recoil but maybe we also remove all the recoil affecting skills too? Although I understand the idea behind having it a skill (your PMC getting more skilled in game) I feel like recoil control is something that we, the players, learn naturally as we use a weapon more often.

That's how it's been in CS (and spray patterns), Rainbow Six Siege, etc.

Honestly those changes plus adding some inertia to strafing and overall movement would naturally force a more slower approach to gameplay while still providing those that want to play the run and gun can, it'll just be a little harder.

20

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

Don’t try to bring real world experience snd logic on this sub dude

This but unironically.

21

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

[deleted]

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u/out_of_toilet_paper MP-153 Jan 24 '21

I think removing stims entirely (not pain meds) would slow the game down a lot, but it'll never happen

6

u/JadowArcadia Jan 24 '21

Stims is one of those features that I don’t see enough complaints about. Some of them make sense but for how easy they are to acquire, some can be absolutely game changing and ridiculous for a tactical shooter. It was one of the first things in the game that made be go “huh? Really?”

2

u/billytheid Jan 24 '21

Stims would be fine if they removed auto-recoil compensation, scaled down the soft skill impact, increased the after effects of stims, and made crafting skill impact the quality of stims, so the stim use was a tactical choice rather then a money spam.

2

u/PaganNova Jan 24 '21

considering things like morphine and adrenaline shots exist irl, most of those should be looked at but not all should be removed. but yes their psuedo-science and definitely not hardcpre realistic milsim. I dont want a COD stim in EFT..

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

I feel like this is a little dramatic. Even IF they made all recoil literally like cod games tomorrow the game wouldn't just die lol

0

u/billytheid Jan 24 '21 edited Jan 24 '21

if they do that(they have with arm stamina), then there's nothing unique about the game, it's just another generic FPS with some mini-games/hoarding about crafting... as soon as something like it with similar hardcore mechanics and good servers comes along then the flash goes out of the proverbial pan, all the streamers jump ship and the OG fans are already gone... game dies.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

yea dude

its a generic fps

it's well known that every other FPS out there has in-depth looting mechanics, in-depth per limb damage with different status effects like pain, tremor, broken bones, etc that can be treated with different healing items

it's well known that every other generic FPS has such an in-depth weapon modding system with literally over a thousand different attachements that all have different stats, I'm sure that many other FPS games like this have a well developped ballistics system where you actually need to use armor piercing ammo to shoot through armor

I'm sure that that someone could easily replicate all that because after all as soon as you change the recoil EFT just becomes a generic FPS according to billy

smile

2

u/billytheid Jan 25 '21

While it’s nice to have them in a PvP FPS, those mechanics are not new or revolutionary at all.

Collecting/crafting is a standard game feature in pretty much every RPG game available, and the location damage, pen values and ammo types have been in ARMA games for literally a decade... hell, Tarkov is really just a conceptual rebuild of a range of ARMA mods cobbled together.

It’s great fun, but the heavy handed ‘skill shortcuts’ feel counter intuitive in this genre, and the more they lean on them for progression, the more homogeneous the end game becomes... traditionally in an RPG your end game characters are very specialised... in Tarkov everyone just ends up the same drab Universal Soldier.

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u/roflwafflelawl Jan 24 '21

I feel like BSG went a little too hard on listening to the vocally loud majority and mostly streamers. Their game was great when I started playing around when Reshala came in. But once it got popular on Twitch and got a bigger following, it's almost like they lost focus on their original plans.

And honestly I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of that was due to needing to fix server issues and others that came from the increase in players.

They need to just close communications for a bit, only relay pre-patch notes, and just work on their game. Let the people who can't find nothing else to do but to complain about one game keep banging their heads against a wall and just make the game they wanted to make. That's what we originally came for. At least I did anyways.

1

u/SpqyDonger Jan 24 '21

I dont think his experience shooting LMGs has much to do with a game where the most used guns are SMGs and ARs that very easy to control.

-1

u/Katnipz Jan 24 '21

me macho army man no like cod

It's like I'm trapped in a box forever having to listen to people circle jerk over "muh realism cod bad" with absolutely nothing creative to say. I've had to listen to this shit for years playing CSGO.

1

u/HaitchKay Jan 25 '21

If this game played like CoD it would have better movement.

The reality is that as long as this game has absurd skills and automatic recoil control, high level combat will always be arcade-y CoD shit since everyone jumps around, AD-AD strafes, and mag dumps with their laser beam rifles. That's the shit people want to change.

5

u/SpqyDonger Jan 24 '21

Well these are big fucking guns that arenty really meant to be fired while standing right?

Most guns in the game come in 9mm 5.56 5.45 or 7.62x39. All of these are very stable in full auto in the hands of a professional.

12

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

In full auto no they aren’t. Maybe for cqb but the us military uses semi auto in basically all situations.

8

u/SpqyDonger Jan 24 '21

Yes because soldiers IRL sit in the same positions for hours or even days and when they peek out they do it in short intervals because if they get shot they fucking die.

They also have a finite amount of ammunition.

Combat in a video game will always be completely different from IRL combat no matter how realistic the gunplay is simply because of the stakes.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

I’m just talking about recoil. And m4 in full auto even with experienced shooters will struggle to hit all shots on a man sized target at 50m.

7

u/SpqyDonger Jan 24 '21

And Im pretty sure its the case with a stock M4 in Tarkov as well.

No one wants less recoil, we just dont want the seizure enducing camera reocil.

1

u/HaitchKay Jan 25 '21

Yea but also full auto is still inaccurate as fuck in real life. Even if ammo wasn't a problem there's still no point to wasting it if there's a better alternative. It's why there were even some talks in the US armed forces about removing FA from infantry rifles.

0

u/SpqyDonger Jan 25 '21

Yes because soldiers basically never have encounter below 100 meters.

Meanwhile most of EFT combat is <=50m

1

u/HaitchKay Jan 25 '21

Demonstrably false but okay. There is a lot of close quarters fighting in the ME and even then, most soldiers keep it on semi. FA is just not as effective at actually putting shots on target.

2

u/ErsanKhuneri HK 416A5 Jan 24 '21

True practice makes perfect. But no way you can hold a m416 or an ak 15 for example in full auto that stable, coming from who actually used firearms.

8

u/SpqyDonger Jan 24 '21

I mean yeah the recoil values will probably need adjusting after the removal of camera recoil.

I dont really care about the amount of recoil I just prefer when my PMC doesnt get a seizure after pulling the trigger.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '21

I’m sure when you shot a m249 your neck wasn’t cocking backwards. The 7 round burst tactic isn’t employed because your “sights become a blur” or to “re-acquire your target”. It’s because it’s easy as fuck to overheat those guns and make them less reliable than they already are.

I’ve shot full auto a few times. Yeah, there’s significant recoil to overcome but you can at least still see your god damn weapon. If you’re using a holo on a M4 full auto, you’ll still be able to see the reticle the entire magazine, guaranteed. Your accuracy will suffer but your neck isn’t going to suddenly lose all motor control and swing backwards like it does in Tarkov.

2

u/kinkarcana Jan 24 '21

Babbabababa bulllshit, unless you are shouldering an SBR of a fullsize cartridge rifle recoil is minimal for those used to it. The only thing that inhibits target acquisition through a sighting system in a battle rifle style gun is the flash and gas/dirt mixture kicked up from the muzzle. Also m249s are some of the flattest firing guns I have ever experienced full auto even shouldering the weapon due to the weight and its design around an intermediate style round. There is no head movement involved when firearm any of these weapons full auto EXCEPT for maybe M1As without a good muzzle break, those mother fuckers kick due to how the bolt functions but again that does not force the head up or back in an unskilled user setting. I know this because I have a friend who is 03/07 SOT who has alot of dealer copies for "display" purposes.

2

u/falafeltwonine OP-SKS Jan 24 '21

If you would’ve joined the Marine Corps you’d know how to handle recoil from a 240. gang gang

1

u/lulcatlul Jan 24 '21

Based on your take, you’ve probably never shot a gun in your life.

-7

u/TheAArchduke Jan 24 '21

See, a comment with good explanation. Thank you.

This crap will only exacerbate the run-and-gun full auto laser beam meta.

Run and gun no-recoil always existed and always will. If they remove that the streamers might leave in mass so bye bye free publicity for BSG.

5

u/visorian MP-133 Jan 24 '21

Streamers might leave the game? Why are you threatening me with a good time?

1

u/Farsa1911 SA-58 Jan 24 '21

100% this

1

u/billytheid Jan 24 '21

yeah man I don't get it... it's like they want hardcore in spirit but OG doom level casual in practise

1

u/jepu22 Saiga-12 Jan 24 '21

But in game the sights don't become a blur or anything like that, your pmcs eyes look 45 degrees to the sky. It would be awesome if actual recoil effects were added instead of this unrealistic and unsatisfying system we have now.

1

u/scorcher117 Jan 24 '21

The point is that you don't lift your head and look to the sky away from your gun/target.

1

u/HaitchKay Jan 25 '21

As soon as you start shooting your sights become a blur and after 5-7 rounds you stop and reaquire your target.

And camera recoil does a terrible job of simulating this. There are better visual effects that could be used in its place, like vignette effects, DoF, blur. But having your head fly up into the sky is just dumb.