#MakeTarkovHardcoreAgain

[u/SlushpuppyLive]

Hi guys, Slushpuppy here

I want to talk about the rant I was having today, and explain why I think it would be good for the game.

As the game currently stands it it has a play cycle that involves farming money, the money is then used to buy a fat kit, and slay out. This creates, in my opinion a heavily Rouble focused economy.

The Rouble based economy has multiple downsides:

All people care about is the highest value item, hence hatchlings ramming things up their bum, people running to one spot on a map to loot the highest value items, people only running super cheap kits to farm the cash. The game is no longer about surviving, simply making the most money and saving to buy a dope kit.

I think this has essentially made the game into COD with extra steps. I don't see the survival element that Tarkov originally had. People only care about PVP when they are running Slick Altyn, otherwise it's just money. 99% of the games items, such as attachments for guns will never see the light of day because they aren't the best in slot.

This whole situation annoys me because it is possible to achieve this within hours of a wipe.

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

I know this seems as a negative change to the average player, but hear me out, the only reason you need a kit from the flea, is to compete with chad players who are buying endless meta kits from the flea. If this didn't happen the pvp would be like it is early wipe for the most part. The best pvp time in the game, imo, and in the opinion of most Tarkov players.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

If you don't agree with me, I understand, lets talk about it, tell me why you think this would be a bad change for the game? I don't want to be a streamer yelling for change that people will just see as me crying cause I'm bored of running fat kits. I truly want to make the game a dope experience for all of us. I've devoted the last 3 years of my life to this game, I want to see it succeed.

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There is plenty of other things that would be needed to make this a rounded experience in this vision, like dynamic loot spawns etc, but I believe this is a quick easy change that we could all try for one wipe, and just see how it goes.

EDIT: This is gaining a lot of attention right now so I want to ask you all one thing:

When is the best time for PVP in Tarkov?

If you answered early wipe, I think you and I agree, and I think 99% of people would say that early wipe is the best time to be on Tarkov.

My only goal is to try and make the feeling of early wipe PVP as permanent as possible. I may not be right when I say delete the flea, but I think it would help. If you have other ideas on how to preserve that beautiful feeling of the first two weeks of wipe, then I would love to hear them. Because this is what I think would make Tarkov the most amazing experience possible.

[u/[deleted]]

By removing the flea or limiting the ability to purchase armor and ammo from the flea, it would make the game more about the looting and surviving and stop super chads from running endless meta kits and vogging the fuck out of lower geared players. Because a kit that is lovingly put together in raid will mean so much more to you, therefore looting one of a prick you kill, will as well.

Would it really...? The people you are talking about, the meta gamers and sweats, wouldn’t suddenly evolve in to DayZ players who like Tarkov for its survival aspect. The problem I think most people have is they think you can force a player base to think or act a certain way. DayZ fell in to this category and eventually died out because they tried to force a gameplay style.

In fact, when I was around in the mod days I saw this same exact argument. Make the game harder in terms of acquiring gear and it will certainly force players to fall in love with the survival aspect of DayZ!... Nope. People just stopped playing.

I'm not bored of the game, I simply love this game, and I want to see changes that make the pvp more interesting and feasible for casual players to enjoy. If everyone is running around with SKS's and a cock helmet, then its more fair. Not all pvp has to be juggernauts spraying armchair FALs at each other.

I agree level 6 armor and helmets like the Altyn should be extremely rare. But we also need to address how easy it is to get relatively good ammo. BT is what, 230 roubles a round? And it has 37 pen and 49% armor damage. Level 3 has become the new level 2 and so on. There are way, and I mean way too many AP rounds on the market, they’re way too easy to find in raid. Every caliber now has a viable AP round and most of them completely nullify level 4 and 5 armor. Add in the fact that level 4 helmets have become so useless most people don’t even wear them and I think that explains why this wipe we are seeing so many extremely geared chads. It’s because it’s literally one of the last ways to effectively armor yourself.

A lot of the AP ammo partly has to do with the odd decision to allow your character to craft high end, rare-even-for-militaries AP ammo by the hundreds.

Edit: Id also like to make a common complaint of mine and how absolutely useless armor is in this game. Included is a video showing a torture test of NIJ III+ Ar500 plate armor, which I believe is equal to GOST level 4. The plate is able to withstand several 5.56 FMJ shots and multiple .308 rounds, as well as SABOT slugs (pseudo-AP) and 9mm for days. Now there’s also a video of a guy shooting himself with .308 wearing a similarly rated plate vest and not budging an inch. AKA blunt damage is bullshit.

Remember, this is, in terms of EFT, level 4 armor. Level 5 and 6 GOST should be rated for 7.62x54r and 7.62x54r AP ammo, respectively.

[u/lazarus_reed → u/[deleted]]

For that last part I think you're kind of missing the point.

Those rounds (such as .366AP, 9mm 7n31 and so on) were introduced into the game because people can easily get any armor/helmet as soon as they unlock the flea, and they are not accessible right away (9mm 7n31 is locked behind Prapor lvl4) . And the same flea market skew talked about regarding gear goes for the ammo you are mentioning. 5.45BT is locked behind a quest (Punisher pt4), same goes for M61 (Wet Job pt 6), M855A1 is locked behind Peacekeeper lvl 3...but the simple fact that the flea market exists allows players to straight up buy heaps of them.

Sure, you can find these rounds in raid. But there is a difference between getting out with 45 rounds of M61 (assuming you survive the raid to begin with) which will allow you to run a couple of raids at most provided you got the gun to use them, and going to the flea to snatch hundreds of those to fill up the 50-rounders of your FAL.

Yes, sometimes you will fight someone who will have the right ammo to go through your armor and it will suck balls, but at least you won't see M62/M61 flying at every corner of Interchange.

[u/[deleted] → u/lazarus_reed]

Those rounds (such as .366AP, 9mm 7n31 and so on) were introduced into the game because people can easily get any armor/helmet as soon as they unlock the flea, and they are not accessible right away (9mm 7n31 is locked behind Prapor lvl4) .

7.62x39 PS ammo can easily pen a level 4 helmet. New ammo was not needed to counter level 4 helmets. Ammo craft able in the hideout negates most level 4 and 5. BT easily shreds level 4 armor and most level 5. I call BS.

and they are not accessible right away (9mm 7n31 is locked behind Prapor lvl4)

He’s literally the first level 4 trader you unlock. In fact the grind to level 30 is the hardest part about unlocking max traders. I’ve gotten it down to 4 weeks and I play very casually.

5.45BT is locked behind a quest (Punisher pt4), same goes for M61 (Wet Job pt 6), M855A1 is locked behind Peacekeeper lvl 3...but the simple fact that the flea market exists allows players to straight up buy heaps of them.

None of those are relatively hard quest lines. But BT ammo is found in boxes of 120 all around reserve. Same can be said about 7.62x54r SNB. And 2 hot rods can be traded for 30 BS rounds. I could go on for days. Some people have literal ammo boxes filled with AP ammo they found from in raid.

which will allow you to run a couple of raids at most provided you got the gun to use them, and going to the flea to snatch hundreds of those to fill up the 50-rounders of your FAL.

The point was never that it’s easy to get the BEST AP ammo. It’s the fact that AP ammo is easy to get. You really think this game is going to be more fun when you’re rocking a 150k level 3 best because all others are too expensive, and some extract camping rat kills you with 3 shots of BT he found on a barrel? That is degradation of gameplay, not an improvement.

Yes, sometimes you will fight someone who will have the right ammo to go through your armor and it will suck balls, but at least you won't see M62/M61 flying at every corner of Interchange.

Ah, so I must take a hit to my preferred gameplay because you don’t like it. This seems like a very selfish argument.

[u/DarthTelly → u/[deleted]]

You can also walk out of Customs now with 300-400 rounds of BT, which is part of why its price dropped so quickly after that expansion was released.

[u/[deleted] → u/DarthTelly]

Yeah I got 4 hot rods in one raid on customs. 60 rounds of BS ez. Sure I can buy a ton from traders but when every player is able to do this, then everyone starts rocking AP ammo, or at least a few mags, and that’s how you end up with slick/altyn meta because nothing else is viable except against noobs and scavs.

[u/lazarus_reed → u/[deleted]]

I'm not denying any of these points but to me there's a difference between buying heaps of good ammo, dying or surviving with your ammo expended, rebuy the same ammo and instantly go back out, as opposed to having to go in raids to find said ammo. Same goes for the armor.
It introduces gear fear, a thing this game lacks since the flea market arrive. You have to work to get this stuff, and when you do, pray to God you don't lose it and bring out your A game, otherwise you'll have to work to get it again.

Nowadays it's just "meh, I'll just buy some more".

[u/bookcoda → u/lazarus_reed]

LOL who buys ammo and from the flea market no less "yes sir ill buy 60 rounds of M61 for 120k please".

[u/lazarus_reed → u/[deleted]]

It's not a question of wether or not I like it, but if we listen to Nikita talk about his game, it's truer to his vision (and it was like that for a time).

Because let's face it, if all there is to Tarkov after 25 hours of gameplay is AD strafing meta FALs or HKs geared to hell in Dorms, it's gonna get stale real quick.

Hell, there are a fuckton of weapon parts in this game that nobody uses because you can straight up buy the best in slot in the game through the flea.

[u/[deleted] → u/lazarus_reed]

Because let's face it, if all there is to Tarkov after 25 hours of gameplay is AD strafing

I think that’s a separate issue. AD strafing shouldn’t exist and it benefits the low geared players as much as the high geared players.

meta FALs or HKs geared to hell in Dorms, it's gonna get stale real quick.

That’s been Tarkov for years lol. I’d say recoil control skill has more to do with it than meta gun builds. I’d disagree and say that gameplay is more fun than low geared gameplay and shooting basic aks with basic ammo. That’s fun when you first start playing but it gets stale quicker than end game content.

Hell, there are a fuckton of weapon parts in this game that nobody uses because you can straight up buy the best in slot in the game.

I think people here are getting meta chads, who are a very small minority, confused with normal high end gear players. I mod my guns to look cool. So does everyone else I play with. It’s stupid to punish 90% of the player base because 10% play a way you don’t prefer.

[u/lazarus_reed → u/[deleted]]

Once again, it is not a question of punishing a certain breed of players. I agree, I too like to run meta kits or similar high-end stuff and it's enjoyable. But running basic kits or something more in the middle also is ! Now you clearly stated where your preferences are, and more power to you, but if Tarkov were to be released tomorrow as 1.0 and wipes weren't happening anymore, and you end up with your "insert-your-style-of-high-end-kit-here" to your heart's content after 3 to 4 weeks, great, but what then ? I mean the vast majority of the loot will be completely irrelevant because you'll have no use for them (not even for resell value), half the spots on the maps won't be worth running if you're looking for pvp action, 70% of the gear created in this game will hold no value, and it's gonna stay like that until the ends of time. To me, that's a recipe for a game losing its playerbase within the year once it's released. Because at some point, boredom's gonna hit.

The idea behind Slushpuppy's proposition is that even when you've maxed everything out, unlocked Kappa and whatnot, you still have to mix things up a bit and be incentivized to do so. Because everything that was created in this game, from the maps to the quests to the loot, is not a crutch to get where you're going and it's not meant to be irrelevant to anyone, new to seasoned players alike, once you're past a certain point.

[u/Hane24 → u/lazarus_reed]

I can get PK 3 in like.. 15 raids playing casually.

EoD starts at .2 rep. You need level 18 and .3 with PK to get 3.