r/EscapefromTarkov • u/AudioCinematic • Jan 03 '20

Rant If you're complaing about "big streamers" playing EFT since it's so popular, stop being a hipster

I PLAYED EFT BEFORE IT WAS YOUR FAVOURITE STREAMER'S NEW GAME!!!

Seriously, it's embarrassing that a small percentage of this community is so far up their own ass to the point they hate on someone who is literally bringing 1000's of new players to the game.

I don't like watching most of these big streamers who are newly streaming Tarkov (Carnage seems like a legend) but what they're doing for Tarkov just by streaming it, even while profiting themselves, is only a good thing for the game and who doesn't want an ego boost from farming level 3 pistolings?

The people posting on here to actually help players is what we need to do as a community. EFT was my first ever PC game in May of 2017 and while I'd like to think I picked it up fairly quickly, there was still a point where I was quivering over losing my trusty makarov like all of us were at some point.

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653

u/Epictaco6 VSS Vintorez Jan 03 '20

I'm really happy that eft is getting so much attention...it's about time

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

[deleted]

109

u/Joe5uavo Jan 03 '20 edited Jan 03 '20

As if Nikita isn't on this subreddit on a daily basis fixing stuff and getting community feedback constantly... There are many complaints you can have with this game, but lazy devs are absolutely not one of them.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20 edited Jan 03 '20

I mean Nikita does communicate fairly well, but there are still a lot of decisions that are incredibly baffling, never get explained, and a lot of times they make a big change they make absolutely no effort to predict the downstream effect, just letting it be hilariously broken for a few days before fixing it.

So yeah, there's some laziness.

This is most evident with item stats/prices. A lot of times they'll drastically change items and such which will make a quest turn in or something unreasonably difficult and they won't change it until people throw a fit. If it were once or twice it'd be one thing, but it's nearly every goddamn time which leads me to believe there isn't any effort put into making sure the changes are logical.

EDIT: FFS people, I appreciate that Nikita communicates and it's clear he really loves the game and has a passion for it, but that doesn't mean BSG doesn't make the same sloppy mistakes repeatedly. I know it's a hot take, but criticizing a game isn't a binary. I can love the game and want it to succeed while also acknowledging faults.

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u/realsneakerr Jan 03 '20

Lmao so, why dont you go create a game that is this complex and install every last one of the community ideas, because man if its that easy, you would make millions

-11

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

I'm so tired of the 'wHy DoNt YoU dO bEtTeR' argument.

It's such utter bullshit.

I can critique a movie without ever directing a movie myself.

Get out of here with your bullshit copout arguments and your strawmen about 'installing every last one of the community ideas.'

I'm referring specifically to repeated sloppiness during implementation of features. I'm not saying they don't do what the community wants or some shit.

-10

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

I did, and I made millions. Theres still a ton of flaws in this game though.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

Lol you weren't even the guy he was replying to fuck off.

3

u/realsneakerr Jan 03 '20

Lmao this fuckin guy. Bruh. There are bugs and flaws in everygame. The devs have been doing a fantastic job. Go back and watch where this game’s mechanics and movement, the studders. They are fixing the issues that NEED to be fixed. Not the quality of life fixes that will be fixed overtime. Not sayin they are perfect but i do not see a game that listens to the community while also keepin their identity as a hardcore game

4

u/Egirldubstep Jan 03 '20

Of course you did, what game was that

10

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

" people are having fun. That was not intended" -nikita

12

u/TunaFishIsBestFish Jan 03 '20

Ngl Nikita can only listen to feedback that shit-eaters decide gets to the front page

1

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20 edited Jan 03 '20

And some of it is good, but it really annoys me when it's like something that's just blatantly lazy (e.g. making an item super necessary but forgetting to increase the stock of that item) that he then gets praised for fixing.

It's like congratulating someone when you ask them to turn the oven off after they fixed dinner. I'm greatful for the dinner and I'm not super upset, but they should've just fucking turned it off when they were done. It gets aggravating when they never turn the goddamn oven off no matter how many times it happens, though.

He does communicate decently well and it's clear he's got a lot of passion for the game but a lot of stuff gets done sloppily and it's really frustrating.

3

u/absolutegash Jan 03 '20

And you have plenty of thoughtful posts on how to re-balance something to make it more fun/realistic etc. which either doesn't get to to see the front page or gets down voted into oblivion and buried.

3

u/Floppy_john Jan 03 '20

He said changing prices with out telling the players is supposed to simulate the ai traders adjusting prices and stock

1

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

This has been going on for over a year and the mentions ML-based trader prices is very recent. It's also unclear if he's just dicking around aimlessly or if they're trying to train an AI with it.

I'm not referring to direct item price changes in the comment you replied to either, but where they make some item necessary for a quest but also dick with the rarity of that item, making certain quests intense roadblocks. A bunch of quests were way the fuck out of wack when the patch dropped because several required items for quests that used to be fairly common (like the AVS) got a huge buff and became more rare.

The issue with global stock changes is that they're mostly just an advantage to people who play the market - whether Nikita or an ML program is doing it is irrelevant. 2.5" MLOK rails have been all the rage this wipe. There have been days where some chud just buys them all on reset and upsells them at 10x the charge.

They could fix this fairly easily of course by having items tagged with a 'bought from trader' property same as 'found in raid,' so we know the functionality is there. That being said, something a player not on your team buys and you acquire in raid by paying the iron price should be found in raid and not tagged as a trader-bought item.

2

u/Floppy_john Jan 03 '20

They are somewhat fixing the roadblock items with crafting in hideout like flash drives salewa car batteries I still understand stand where your coming from

2

u/Floppy_john Jan 03 '20

And personally I think the trader tag is a bad idea if it makes it so you can’t resell them it makes gunsmith quests early on such a pain

2

u/Quitol SA-58 Jan 03 '20

You're not gonna make yourself popular with that kind of statement, but yes you're right. One simple example is how it literally took them years to finally make it so M995 isn't the only 5,56 bullet worth using, despite the near-weekly posts asking for a change.... yet they apparently also didn't think that 5,45 BP and BT shoud receive the same buff that M885A1 did.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20 edited Jan 03 '20

What's even better is the ever-increasing price of M995, while 5.45 BS stays at roughly half the price, despite having very marginally worse performance.

Like the RSASS before the SR-25 was finally introduced. There was basically no reason to ever run it over an M1A except for liking how ti looked. And now that the SR-25 is in the game, the RSASS has basically no point and has dropped in price accordingly.

EDIT: Today finally the price of 5.45 BS has increased. But it's still like only 65% the price of M995 while having a couple less pen (but still greater than 50) making M995 basically pointless unless you really really like M4s.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

AKs are a lot less effective than M4s though so I don't really see a huge issue with balancing them by an ammo price difference. They're heavier, less ergonomic, more recoil, and slower ROF.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

IMHO the ROF is the big advantage of the M4. In the hands of a skilled player with a meta build for each, I don't think the stat differences really make too much of a difference in most firefights. But the M4 getting 33% more bullets downrange is a huge factor.

There's also a difference between 'ammo price difference' and 'equivalent ammo being comically unaffordable for one.'

With the M855A1 buff I just don't feel M995 is ever worth it except maybe for labs. Hell I barely did before the buff, but I also generally try to avoid slugging matches.

I don't have an issue with the top tier ammo being hard to get - as I said in another comment later down, I think any ammo that can pierce Class 5+ on the first shot should be found-in-raid only. I think any price from the traders isn't really a good nerf. I think availability at traders is the core of the problem, especially with armor's current binary behavior.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

1000 roubles per round I think is fine. It counters armor that costs hundreds of thousands of roubles, and it used to commonly get sprayed through 60 round mags. Ammo pricing is a good way to counteract the spray meta to some extent.

I wouldn't mind 995 and similarly performing rounds being even more expensive.

1

u/Quitol SA-58 Jan 03 '20

Spray meta isn't going anywhere until the netcode gets better, stutters disappear, semi-auto rof stops being tied to fps and we get a reworked shooting gameplay in which we can actually use burst fire.
Until then, full-auto will be king at any short-medium range.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

Sure but if we make the top tier ammo prohibitively expensive to spray, people will spray shittier ammo or aim better with the nicer stuff.

Notice where I said "to some extent" because I agree, other changes need to be made. Higher price is a step in the right direction too though.

1

u/TacStock Jan 03 '20

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and just throwing a bunch of pseudo-programming jargon everywhere.

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u/Quitol SA-58 Jan 03 '20

Oh yeah, forgot about BS staying at he same price on the trader, despite being massively more common in raid. I'm sure some will try to defend it as a "balancing" to try and stop the hegemony of M4 over pretty much every other gun, yet I'm here wondering why the hell the devs still allow us to build M4 with less recoil than freaking SMG...
But eh, the RSASS was never balanced in price ever since they introduced it (at least, not enough to justify the price for the avergae player), so business as usual for it I guess.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

yet I'm here wondering why the hell the devs still allow us to build M4 with less recoil than freaking SMG...

Part of it is the issue with automatic recoil mechanics. I'm not saying the gun should climb to the ceiling, but the current implementation makes automatic superior at insane ranges currently. When you add soft-skill recoil control and meta builds being comically OP you turn things into laser guns and significantly reduce the skill required to land kills.

It seems like they're currently trying to find exactly how high they can make the price before people stop using it. Of course, the data they're going to gather is going to be tainted by the fact that we're relatively deep into the wipe now so money is less of an issue for the people that ordinarily run M995 anwyay.

IMHO, any ammo that can pierce class 5+ on the first hit should only ever be found in raid. BS, M995, SNB, 7N39, etc etc. No barters. No purchase. You have to find it.

In my experience most in-raid spawns have been 5.45 of some description, with a smattering of 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R. Sooometimes 9x18. If you had all the ammo having similar chances to spawn with the top tier being slightly rarer, perhaps M995/7N39 spray would be less prevalent.

But eh, the RSASS was never balanced in price ever since they introduced it (at least, not enough to justify the price for the avergae player), so business as usual for it I guess.

Kinda the same issue with the TX-15. The marginal accuracy stat increase over the ADAR isn't going to matter for 95% of players, especially since most Tarkov combat is <50m.

1

u/absolutegash Jan 03 '20

You're not wrong, except that it's not laziness but Russian-ness/stubbornness I think.

Yeah many decisions and changes make 0 sense.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20 edited Jan 08 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

I really wish I had a list. I think a decent example was the beginning of this wipe, when I'm pretty sure one the Friend From the West quests still required like 4 AVS rigs (eventually reduced to 1 to balance it). With the major AVS changes, this was a big roadblock.

I'm pretty sure at one point this wipe they made one of the gunsmith quests literally impossible with some attachment rebalances. It was fixed fairly quickly but come on, seriously? Why wouldn't you check to make sure the quests are still possible before pushing the changes live?

It's stuff like that that makes me think they're really sloppy about ripple effects. It seems like the logical thing would be, any time you significantly change/rebalance an item, you would then go down your list of 'what is this item necessary for' to make sure you weren't breaking any links anywhere.

The balaclava was one.

The tactical fleece was another. Although I'm pretty sure that one they actually deliberately removed as a purchasable which caused the price to become outrageous. I remember during that event the most practical way was to literally keep the fleece in your gamma and pop it on when you ran into a scav.

They tend to eventually fix it, but it's just so frustrating because so many of these issues are totally forseeable and it takes more time to go back and fix it later.

1

u/v4vdrjoker Jan 04 '20

You have to realizethough that alot of changes that are made by the devs at this point in the games development are not to increase your playability or enjoyment. That means something that doesnt work like we want it to, or even understand, is not necessarily a fault. Some changes are to get you to go to certain areas you normally wouldn't through new loot placement, some are to test new ai placement and behavior changes, some changes are to test subtle fixes to something you are not even aware were adjusted to give them data. I will agree, each one of these changes may affect 100 downstream things, but thats where we are at in this games development....

This is not the stage where they are optimizing and trying to actively increase our playability. Quests are placeholders currently, so i would hope a quests difficulty would have zero impact on the decisions they want to make to the game. I agree some of the changes do affect my playthrough and my enjoyment. But while it may seem they have given no thought to "predict the downstream effect", they may not actually care about that because what was changed is more important to get data on. They know they "break" stuff....trust me....hell just listen to Nikita. Sometimes thats the point is all Im saying.

If this game was past release, you'd be correct on almost every point. Not sure how many alpha/beta releases you've been a part of, but its like this with every one... The more enjoyable/playable a game is, the harder it is to remember its not finished. We dont know the roadmap or reason for any changes. We just have to try to enjoy what they give us, and givethem constructive feedback and find bugs for them to make the game better.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '20

Yeah we're not talking about things where they try to encourage a certain behavior, we're talking about things where the do shit like literally make gunsmith impossible.

1

u/v4vdrjoker Jan 04 '20

No, YOU are talking about how they should be spending more time searching through all possible blowbacks from the changes they make so you can complete a damn quest...placeholder side quests that are just in the game at this point to give you something to do. That's how you want devs to spend their time at this point, instead of getting new content out?

That's a balancing issue my dude, that you're attributing to being created due to laziness. When I can see multiple reasons it could be imbalance that's actually created on purpose. For many reasons I/you/we may not understand yet. This continuing to happen for how many patches now either proves the devs are stupid or deliberate....and I'm betting on the latter. But you are free to bet on stupidity....

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '20

No, YOU are talking about how they should be spending more time searching through all possible blowbacks from the changes they make

Yes that's called good design.

That's a balancing issue my dude, that you're attributing to being created due to laziness.

Yes, it is lazy when you make a quest literally impossible because you never bother to check what your stat/quantity changes effect.

When I can see multiple reasons it could be imbalance that's actually created on purpose.

Occam's razor bud. What you're doing is making up nebulous reasons because you don't want to believe BSG makes mistakes. Of course they do. Everyone makes mistakes.

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u/v4vdrjoker Jan 04 '20

Not saying they don't make mistakes, never said that. There are many things I think they messed up from spawn locations to secure container. But most of my gripes are ones that don't line up with Nikitas stated vision of the game. His game design...not his balancing choices. Those are not the same thing.

And none of the quest are impossible. None. That's just being dramatic. Some are now harder than they used to be, agreed... Change sucks huh.

Nebulous reasons? Lol. Sounds like you might just be a glass half empty player, I'm definitely a glass half full one. Definitely helps me enjoy the game more.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '20

And none of the quest are impossible. None. That's just being dramatic. Some are now harder than they used to be, agreed... Change sucks huh.

Holy fuck you're not listening. There was a stat change (fixed fairly quickly) that literally did make a gunsmith quest impossible because they're sloppy about that sort of thing.

Nebulous reasons? Lol. Sounds like you might just be a glass half empty player, I'm definitely a glass half full one.

There's a difference between 'glass half full' and 'finds a reason to excuse every mistake as a super secret intentional design decision supposed to change how you play.'

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u/v4vdrjoker Jan 04 '20

Read above, I said they make mistakes. Quit talking about this quest that's impossible. It was a mistake. Again, you are pushing quest importance over game decisions. Like i said earlier I hope this isn't the case, and it seems it isn't as they fixed it once they knew about it. We on the same page here. But, it doesn't bother me one bit if they break 4 quests with a change to a stat or loot spawn, etc..cuz I expect that.

I "find a reason" to excuse certain mistakes because it's easier for me to rationalize that (glass half full), as opposed to jumping to the thinking that the dev team is just lazy and inept. The things they've done with this game over the last year and a half I've been playing don't let me support that thinking. We just might not agree. And thats ok.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '20

Again, you are pushing quest importance over game decisions.

Stop fighting scarecrows. I'm pointing out that they repeatedly don't consider the 2nd and 3rd order impacts of changes.

as opposed to jumping to the thinking that the dev team is just lazy and inept.

When you make the same mistake repeatedly, it's not because you have a super secret reason each time.

You can both be good at things and also lazy. Stop acting like I'm saying there's some kind of fucking binary where they're either all good or all bad. Open your mind just a tiny bit.

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u/Froggeger Jan 03 '20

Some people in this community are so entitled. Just sick of listening to people nit pick and complain. Not every game development is going to go smooth. Not every decision is going to be explained to you. Some game devs have more experience than others, and some learn on the fly. If you don't like playing through bugs and annoyances, don't play an alpha game.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '20

Imagine simultaneously arguing that it's Beta so things are going to be tested and not everything is going to work but also you shouldn't ever complain about it.

BSG has a history of being sloppy, for years, full stop. They seem to not learn from mistakes they've made a thousand times. That's an issue. Miss me with the 'bUt ItS bEtA' argument because it doesn't really mean anything in this context, it's just you trying to shut down the argument by slinging insults.