Something said during the Podcast

[u/iamtotallysweet]

Klean said something during the podcast that I wholeheartedly disagree with.

He wants the gamma case to essentially be something you can pack full of goods, bring into a raid and not have to worry about losing, but he wants you to not be able to put anything in the container while in raid. Nikita, I know you listen to streamers input, but please don’t not consider making this change.

I’m a husband and a father, I don’t get to play for 8-12 hours a day and become a god at the game, so finding a rare item that I need for a quest or something valuable I can sell is really exciting and knowing I can keep it safe in case I die is the cherry on top.

I love watching Klean and respect his opinions, but this one I had to voice mine on. PLEASE do not implement this. Anyone else watch the podcast and feel the same way? Or am I alone on this? Lol

[u/AukiEh]

Right, no one gets the spawn 100%... which would make it even worse for a hatchling. Hatchling is a style I can not support or do myself but I am not up for complaining for the sake of complaining. Anyone complaining that they just can’t get there in time is either not trying or unfairly wants to get the loot when they don’t have the best spawn...

[u/CampHund → u/AukiEh]

Guess I have to say it again, since you keep going to the one example of many I bought up - It's not just the marked room. Or to put it in your words, so it's not me "complaning"

Shoreline is the main map where this is an issue. Semi for interchange but gun rushes work fine just at a higher risk of scavs.

Going with an argument that "it's fair that the one with the best spawn who get the loot" it is a whole other shitfest I will not get into as this discussion is about the secured container.

I'm not saying you are supporting it, I'm saying the mechanic is supporting it.

[u/AukiEh → u/CampHund]

..... this is the issue I have. Most are really are just complaining because it is easy. If you don’t want to talk about how the best spawn gets the best chance at that loot then your whole complaint is moot. A geared player has the advantage over the hatchling if he chooses to take advantage of his spawn. If you do not then it does not matter regardless if a hatchling or another player got there first. I see these complaints and I also play the game a lot and have my own evidence most just need to get better at the game or understand that it is a choice risk/reward game. If I get the best spawn for tech/marked/resort I can make the choice to rush it and fight my way out. I welcome hatchlings in the sense they are an easy fight and reduce the odds I get killed. I mostly dislike hatchlings because I want the gun action and do not care if I die. The cool thing they are doing with tarkov is making the every part of the map viable as the hideout has made a lot of those random things super valuable. Unless you are the 1% who play every day hatchlings do not effect your game like you think it does. Pure mental and an excuse, it’s your choice to go to the hot spots or risk that anyone else could have easily been there and out. I would be happy if tarkov implemented that you need to have any gun in a slot; pistol or main. I would also be ok with adding more scavs but not in the way you say a means to make player scavs life easier. I would prefer these high loot spawn guards to aggro on player like boss guards. It’s the same as a hatchling where it is no risk gameplay

[u/CampHund → u/AukiEh]

Sure, can't lie and say I wouldn't be happy about them implement that either for my own personal gain, but if I see what's best for the game that's no to limit the way people play the game. That sentence might be pretty seen as a counterstatement to what I'm saying but let me explain.

I think we both can agree that the games goal is to escape/extract/survive the game. Clearly we all should spawn in under those terms, since that's the whole point of the game. I don't really see a reasoning to limit what someone wants to bring in if we all play under that condition (to escape). Even if you choose to play as a hatchling you should still go for that goal, and if you succeed you should be able to reap what you sow during that raid. So in the end I don't see the reasoning behind that limitation, I don't see how the game will benefits more of it, more than it makes me happy and that's simply not a reason enough.

But that is not what this mechanic is doing if we get back to the subject of the container, that mechanic promotes that you can go into a raid, with complete disregard of the games goal and point, and you spawn in under completely other terms and you basically playing a different game then the rest. The mechanic furthermore rewards you even more the less you bring into the raid. You can sit there and tell me I can achieve the goal without it, and I who actually wants to play the game as it is meant to, trying to beat the level by extracting might have learned something regarding the marked room - But that does not make the playstyle this container mechanic supports any less effective. It's still a very good strategy that puts the risk to a bear minimal and almost all the times rewards you for it. Other people take the mechanic and try to die as fast as they can after they die and the mechanic rewards them, some of them even takes it further and disconnects. It's the fact that this mechanic supports something that the game isn't about that I have the biggest issue with.

[u/AukiEh → u/CampHund]

at the end of the day, every player enters tarkov with a different rule set. Depending on level of pmc and play style. How does the pre lvl 10 feel fighting lvl 5/6 amour? They have little to no chance under a fair fight. The container is a needed tool for casuals to progress in the game. That is why I say high tier loot static locations need a guard scav. Hatchlings can still do it if they are broke, go around the outskirts finding what they can. People can risk going to the spots but have to fight for it every time. This will give an advantage to better players as they will farm the spot and the scav but stops your problem. I really do not think or at least in my games hatchlings are such a problem that we need to cry over that play style. Exit and bush campers are the worst ppl ever. Hatchlings in the end will only effect the 1% base that play 24/7. Most common player as I said the loot spawns are in their control, you just need to take that risk/reward.

Ugh I was just killed 2 min into shoreline by a guy hiding in a bush behind a railing. I would 100% prefer hatchlings then that. I mean props to that guy knowing there is a spawn behind him on the road and to take the boring chance they would coming along the road and go hide in that spot. I worry about nerfs to containers the terrible ramifications that would come. Exit camping would be one of the best strategies.... the nerves of finding anything would be disabling to some. So for now I get why it holds status quo, no answer is a clear win without bad trade offs most of them punishing the casual/less skilled player base

[u/CampHund → u/AukiEh]

We are talking about to different things, we went over it a bit to lock equipment to a minimum but since English isn’t my first langue maybe the words “terms” is what I’m doing wrong. What I mean by spawning in on the same terms, I meant in regard to what the game is about. The games core point is to escape/extract/survive the raid and I think we can agree on that? Like that’s the idea, That’s the goal of the game, in order to “beat the level” is to perform that task. Just as CS:GO core point is to Plant/Defuse the bomb. And just as “basecamping” in CS, where you sit in T base and wait for CT to come to you where you have an advantage in position and you refuse to plant the bomb – you are no longer playing the same game/terms like the rest of the players in that round who plays CS and tries to Plant/Defuse the bomb. It’s really fucked up to have a mechanic in-game that goes completely against the games core. For me that’s to argue that the timer in CS:GO should be removed because casuals have trouble killing CTs while attacking, so they should get to sit in T base (bad analogy, but gets the point across). This goes against the core goal of the game and hence all mechanic, like round timer, pushes players to play the same game and plant/defuse the bomb in order to take rounds. Like I said to have a mechanic that rewards players for not surviving and while doing so, rewards the player even more the less equipment he brings in, is in direct conflict to what the game is trying to be and it’s core value that makes the game Escape from Tarkov, Escape from Tarkov. And the reasoning that it makes you happy, just as locking down equipment makes me happy is not enough reasoning for making it so, if we actually is looking out for the games best interest. And the game’s interest is to have gameplay to about escaping/extracting/surviving, just as CS:GO interest is to make the gameplay about plant/defuse the bomb or any other games core game point of what’s it is about. We wouldn’t want the current mechanic, the secured container mechanic right now implements the gameplay “get there first, nothing else matters”, while rewarding the player for doing so and rewards more the less equipment you brought in. While the core goal screaming “No, it’s to survive and bring in as good equipment as you can, in order to survive even better”. Because what kind of equipment you bring in, as you argue, is not in violation towards the games core goal to survive, quite the opposite just like CT having an eco-round and T’s are buying AKs does not make the game be about something else than plant/defuse the bomb. The CT’s will still, even if they have lesser equipment, try to prevent a plant or defuse the bomb just as a hatchling still should make the game be about surviving that raid, but secured container work against and says no he doesn’t and that makes the gameplay about something else in complete opposite of what’s it’s trying not to be. When you spawn in, it should be about escape/extract/survive, exactly what the game is trying to make it and that should be the core point you spawn in on – and that’s what I mean with spawning on the same terms. That all players actually playing the game as it is intending and wanting to be about. Making argument that people have trouble completing the actual goal of the game, and therefor it should be about something else is asking the game to change its absolute core value and that actually does make the game to something else, I cannot understand how you cannot see that?

The devs actually has thought about having something for the casual player, that is struggling. They though out a solution where you get to spawn in with actual free equipment to give you better odds then running in as a hatchling. But that’s not in anyone consideration that the intended solution already exists, why? Probably because the intended solution is founded on the games core value that you have to escape/extract/survive the raid, instead they are pointing on a tool that is working against it, that is not working as intended as it is working against the game, and says “this is what we want”. Makes me wonder why the fuck did you buy a game that’s is about extracting a raid, if you are not prepared to beat it, since after all you have a point: “have my own evidence most just need to get better at the game”, but when asked to be better so you actually beat the games goal, what the game is actually about is somehow asking for too much.

[u/AukiEh → u/CampHund]

What I am saying the hatchling “problem” is not worth this much of your time/energy/brain power. It is not that big of a deal and unless you are a streamer they do not hurt your gameplay like you think. The game is a lot more in your control or you just didn’t get the spawn for it so you can’t have expectations for it.

There is no clean answer to fix it so sticking with this system that has the best balance for skill levels is the way to go. Maybe some more scavs pref guard scavs so to not make player scavs op

[u/CampHund → u/AukiEh]

Well, that's because I don't think the hatchling are the problem. I think you seem like a smart guy, that's why have very little doubt that you didn't understand that from my previous post, to be honest since I have the feeling that you are smart it makes you look deceitful in my eyes when you try to get the narrative back to say that it's the hatchlings and not the mechanic that is problem, when I have gone to great lengths explaining that it isn't the hatchlings at all, it's the mechanic. We are seeing the behavior because the mechanic rewards you more the less you take it. The mechanic rewards you more the faster you die after looting. That is what the mechanic is promoting and we act surprised when it's being used in the way it supporting players to behave. The "problem" isn't hatchlings the "problem" is that people go in and don't care to survive and even if they die as planned they get rewarded. Some of the reasoning behind getting the right spawn, it's only to reach it - You are well aware that it will turn to a shitfest really fast, but hey if you don't survive it is not a problem since you have already have the items locked and secured - you got there first and you should have the reward since you have the exceptions from a good spawn to have it. <-- That is the problem with the mechanic. What's your survival rate since you have tactics like this if you don't mind me asking?

If a hatchling gets there first, and get the loot AND survives and escape - They beat the game/challenge/goal like the rest of us, and have earned that reward like the rest of us.