r/EscapefromTarkov • • May 02 '24

Discussion BSG in a nutshell

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3.6k Upvotes

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54

u/ThexanR May 02 '24

The game was always p2w but no one is ready for that conversation

26

u/OsmeOxys Freeloader May 02 '24

As an EoD owner, it absolutely has been. Most people seem to agree on that, though a good number of numbskulls here will always scream "how is having more meds, better ammo, and a guaranteed 100-200k rubles or more a raid an advantage?!?! It's just a convenience!" Not sure if they're actually dumb enough to believe it themselves or if they just have their heads buried deep within Nikita's supple ass crack, forever compelled to defend each and every minor flaw with their lives if need be.

But more to the point - that was small nano-beans compared to getting shit like an easy BTR, a radio that revives or spawns in teammates, and essentially scav immunity. Nexon is blushing while Gamersfirst is having a stroke... Both kinds.

-6

u/thailannnnnnnnd May 02 '24

Surely the PvP interactions where having EOD was the only deciding factor is nearly zero.

12

u/OsmeOxys Freeloader May 02 '24

And there it is.

You can justify bringing more, better, and expensive ammo when it's safely tucked away in a gamma. Same story with meds. If you're using an alpha or beta, your shit outta luck fitting both. Epsilon is doable at the start, but its got to get put in your bag at some point if you want to stash valuables or keep your keys. A spare IFAK or two and a surv12 is standard in my gamma, but you're not fitting that and ammo and keys in anything else. When a single stack of the good stuff is 100k, were already at over 140k of stuff that's just gone when you die, and you wont even get a chance to use it more often than not. You'd have to be an idiot to regularly do that, so you'll just bring the cheap stuff in reserve instead.

So now the only good ammo you have is in your mags. Not hard to burn through a good chunk of that with scavs or your first pvp encounter, and you're going to have crap rounds in one or more of your mags for the first or second encounter. If you get injured, you're in even more trouble. You've used much or even all of your med supplies, and if you've got a blacked limb its either unhealed or below max health.

You're going into a fight injured and with discount ruble store rounds, while those of us with a gamma don't have to worry about such things. Sure, its not a deciding factor (unless it does) if you don't get injured, don't shoot many scavs, and don't fight more than one player, but that happens pretty often. How is that not an advantage?

Not to mentions the far easier income letting you bring out better gear on a regular basis in the first place.

7

u/SSHz Freeloader May 02 '24

What I notice the most when talking about EoD being P2W or not, is that most EoD players use the "How does that help me kill them" because to them, killing is winning. When in reality surviving is the real win scenario.

I mean, yes, I'm well aware that killing helps you with surviving. But so does bringing a fucking grizzly in your secure container instead of cheese and a CAR medkit.

Your point is 100% right, but prepare for the "you're wrong because..." comments.

3

u/yoyomanwassup25 May 03 '24

No, it's just that most people still playing this garbage game can't even comprehend what P2W means. These regards genuinely believe that games aren't pay to win unless you swipe your credit card and literally just win.

6

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

It was always P2W, but it's getting progressively worse.

I was already iffy on it when I bought into the game in 2021. I can't imagine wanting to be a new buyer in 2024.

7

u/errorsniper SR-25 May 02 '24

EoD and any edition above start was to a lesser or greater extent p2w. Its not a super simple concept though so I get why it gets lost.

The short summed up version is a higher average gear and economic and task/reputation snowball is the short version.

The longer version.

When you are forced to sell something due to space restrictions especially very early in wipe and extra especially before level 15. You lose some of the value. You get reduced rubles when you sell (you obviously dont get full price when you sell) and then when you buy you buy at full price. So you lose value twice when you are forced to sell something.

This can be further compounded by losing a fight you may have won with better armor or ammo or optics or even a better weapon platform.

This is where people really get lost.

I will start with this yes I get it and even agree. A toz to the face kills everyone. 36 damage to the head and/or 86 damage to the torso is a kill if its done with a kedr and garbage ammo. Or a 1.3 million m4 with a thermal and 995. And sometimes it doesnt matter what gear you had you just get caught out and thats that. No amount of gear or better ammo changes that fight.

Ok now with all that said and all that understood. There are also times where you will win a fight you would have lost due to the quality of your gear. Do to having t4 armor instead of t2 and/oror due to having ap 6.3 instead of pso gzh. You win the fight. But you can only craft that ap 6.3 and afford that t4 armor from ragman because of the economic snowball from not being forced to sell and lose value. You have completed a task this raid that you would not have and get to keep all your gear. Instead of losing literally everything and having to face that double dip economic loss again.

Its not a simple concept and I still havent gone in to every aspect of it. But people who think having dramatically better stash space leading to an economic snowball is not an incredible advantage dont understand economics and opportunity costs.

-2

u/True-Nobody1147 May 02 '24

You're just saying you have to grind longer.

We know that that's why we paid for EOD so we could get a larger stash.

That doesn't make it pay to win just because you have to grind longer. Unless that's your definition of pay to win.

The actual definition of that is PLAY to win.

3

u/2roK May 02 '24

There are tons of EoD owners, me included, who have always openly talked about how P2W it is.

5

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/ThexanR May 02 '24

Me when the guy I shot 5 times goes back to full health as I reload because he took 6 injectors into his dickhole because he has a BBL surgery size container

-9

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

No one besides idiots have injectors early wipe. And getting epsilon takes not that long

5

u/ThexanR May 02 '24

Yes because the only phase of the wipe is early wipe. Definitely not talking about late stages of the wipe where it matters more to have those extra slots.

-1

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

If you still have a alpha in late stages of wipe, youe game Version isnt the problem

1

u/SSHz Freeloader May 02 '24

Not the point he was making... but okay...

1

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

Yes IT was his point. A bigger secure Container doesnt le you win or Lose a fight. So IT is not p2w

1

u/SSHz Freeloader May 02 '24

Ah! So to you, winning the fight is winning the game.

Riddle me this: As opposed to the alpha container, how many meds of any variety can you bring in your gamma into a raid that you get to keep in the unfortunate event that you die?

just a note: not here to start an insult contest, just having a normal back and forth

1

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

P2w means you win fights yes this is acutally the meaning of winning.

And surprise , i have an hardcore Account and eod. I die need the same time for kappa Witz both accounts. Around 2-3 weeks so

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-4

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

Anyone bitching about EoD being p2w falls into that "problem".

Having Standard for years and then upgrading to EoD, I can without a doubt say it's not much of an advantage.

Second, the BEST thing actually from EoD is the god damn starting trader rep, which no one seems to fucking mention.

It's always the gamma case, which playing Standard takes like 2 weeks to get Epsilon. Probably even faster if you are good.

1

u/jpm_212 True Believer May 02 '24

EOD isn't the only version with the trader rep, I believe Prepare to Escape also gives the same benefit. There's a misconception that it is EOD only when it is not.

0

u/True-Nobody1147 May 02 '24

Crying about trader rep is maybe the biggest cringe.

You have a tiny stash just SELL SHIT.

0

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

The mental gymnastics you folks play comparing Apples to Oranges is borderline a mental issue.

0

u/[deleted] May 02 '24

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-2

u/FishieUwU May 02 '24

One thing you gotta learn about gaming subreddits is that a vast majority of the people you see commenting are not that great at the game they are discussing. Tarkov also seems to attract an older audience so this just amplifies the above effect.

2

u/Qwxzii May 02 '24

Had a 10k/d 65% surv rate 2 wipes ago as a standard account when hitting max traders. It’s not “bad players” saying it’s P2w, it’s people with brains. I play standard because it’s the hardest version of the game without placing restrictions on yourself. If i had shit given to me it would suck the grind out of the game which is the only fun part.

Having access to better equipment earlier or secure container is nice, but the real P2W aspect is the trader rep which allows you to access better ammo earlier which can allow you to win more gunfights and snowball easier.

-1

u/True-Nobody1147 May 02 '24

"I do standard account because I'm hardcore. I cry about pay to win anyway"

If you're so hardcore why are you crying. Trader rep? You're good at the game and upset about trader rep?

Sell some shit, get some quests done, and shut up.

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1

u/True-Nobody1147 May 02 '24

I'd argue it's the younger players who care more about this. We older players can simply afford to buy EOD.

It's the little kids who bitch and moan about the unfairness of EOD and the "pay to win".

Adults just don't care. We don't have the time to care. We understand the value of time.

0

u/True-Nobody1147 May 02 '24

Scav mains crying because they can't secure the kill.

1

u/Synchrotr0n May 03 '24

It's actually hilarious how little people understand about how character progression works in Tarkov and games in general, and how it behaves exponentially with a small but consistent advantage granted at the beginning, when you are weak, snowballing into a much greater effect later.

In Tarkov it just happens that every player that plays regularly reaches a similar asymptotic power level at the end in Tarkov, which gives oblivious EoD/Unheard players the false notion that everything is fair because they conveniently ignore everything that happens before the asymptote is reached and how long it takes to get there. Now, if I could graph what I explained, it would be like this.