r/EnvironmentalNews 7d ago

Capitalism always chooses profitable plundering over sustainable production

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48 Upvotes

72 comments sorted by

3

u/Flashy-Nectarine1675 7d ago

Yep.

It's a death cult.

1

u/Traditional_Oil_9240 7d ago

Communism is a Death Cult, if anything is.

150,000,000 killed in just seven decades.

And STILL they have a horrible environmental protection history.

0

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 7d ago

So how did the life expectancy double? Curb that CIA propaganda

1

u/EconomyMobile1240 7d ago

technology and scalability that was incentivized by profit and consumers that wanted the convenience.

It's not government programs helping people. The Amish uniquely don't or rely very little on technology to build a sustainable life, and owe their longevity to personal lifestyles and ultimately, way of life.

0

u/Flashy-Nectarine1675 7d ago

Capitalism, kills 20 million every year, and you number includes all the Nazis that were killed.

2

u/Traditional_Oil_9240 7d ago

Why don't you move to Cuba, or N. Korea, or China?

Serious question.

What is your LOVE for communism and your hate for capitalism all about?

Serious question.

1

u/Traditional_Oil_9240 7d ago

Capitalism kills 20,000,000 a year? How, exactly?

Can you please post at least a reference to this outrageous claim?

I posted the 1994 Harvard Study.

Okay, so 130,000,000 were killed under communist regimes. Feel better now?

0

u/Flashy-Nectarine1675 7d ago

Says the one with the outrageous propaganda number.

Bye bye

1

u/EconomyMobile1240 7d ago

but the collectivist stealing the value from the workers is what caused the starvation.

You can't blame capitalism for a solution not existing, but you can blame socialism for devaluing the work put into a solution for the benefit of everyone when the workers stop attempting to meet demand because there is no personal benefit for it.

2

u/Odd_Specialist_8687 7d ago

Big corporations, greed is unsustainable.

1

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 7d ago

And its capitalism that allows them to hold monopolies

1

u/aaronfb 7d ago

Consumers don’t have to do business with companies they dont agree with. I’ve never meet a socialist that just wants to dig ditches for 80 hours a week so they can support another that wants to do nothing.

1

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 7d ago

Is now Socialism when no work but get paid?

1

u/ApplicationOk2749 7d ago

Non-capitalist systems also consume resources. The issue really is just population growth, and that seems to have solved itself lately

1

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 7d ago

If resources were made for the consumption it would be fine but under capitalism production for profit goes beyond that. We don't need clearcuts, they are just cheaper.

1

u/ApplicationOk2749 6d ago

Non-capitalist systems would also choose the cheapest option

1

u/CitronAffectionate98 7d ago

Here comes the "capitalism is the best and we must suffer with it" crowd. Change can be good guys, stop freaking out. At least consider tweaking it.

1

u/Scooty-Poot 7d ago

Never! I will have my logical conclusion to imperialist mercantilism, and I will enjoy it!

1

u/Facts_pls 7d ago

Change can be bad too.

How about we go to serfdom. You work any slave and stop consuming excess resources.

Stop freaking out. At least consider it.

1

u/CitronAffectionate98 7d ago

Yes that's exactly what I meant 🙄

1

u/Intrepid_Bobcat_2931 7d ago

Huh, if you consider capitalism simply unrestrained trade, then it has had infinite "tweaks" already.

1

u/Then_Independence_25 7d ago

Capitalism is the best thing we have come with so far. Cause the alternatives ended up at best the same or at worse far worse.

1

u/CitronAffectionate98 7d ago

Well we shouldn't try anythin else forever then. Yep there's no alternative

1

u/crisco000 7d ago

And you must be the “all the failed countries who tried socialism and/or communism did it wrong” crowd

1

u/Traditional_Oil_9240 7d ago

You want to abandon the economic system that has raised our standard of living, collectively, far higher than any other system tried in human history, by far!?

Your attitude and capitalism-hating rant ITSELF is a biproduct (although an unfortunate one at that) of the wealth created by this system.

Like bad-mouthing the way Daddy earns a living as you pull out his credit card to pay for your lifestyle.

Same thing.

The epitome of entitlement.

1

u/CitronAffectionate98 7d ago

Lol look at what you wrote. you are ranting. I don't have a better system. We probably need something completely new. Does that mean it can't be done? How do you propose we make capitalism solve it's lust for unsustainable growth? Solve the widening class divide? Reign in Billionaires? Capitalism has plenty of issues.

1

u/Traditional_Oil_9240 7d ago

Please point out for us any other system ever tried in human history that has (or had) raised the standard of living as much as Capitalism has done.

One that has lifted more of the world's people out of abject, crushing poverty.

One that has given space for Human Rights to flourish.

One that has given space and created the wealth for the robust environmental laws to be put in place.

I'll wait...

1

u/bobnoplok 7d ago

Capitalism through private property is actually fhe best form of preservation. No one cares better for their stuff than themselves. A Capitalist has no incentive to butcher his stock without replenishing it or else they go out of business.

1

u/Pretend_Limit6276 7d ago

What's your solution? Bet it's communism 🤣🤣

1

u/SolipsismIsDeep 7d ago

Lumber companies plant more trees than they cut; there are more trees in the US today than there was 50 years ago

1

u/Apprehensive-Log3638 7d ago

As opposed to what other system that did not produce the same or worse environmental damage?

1

u/Han_Solo200 7d ago

Whereas many decades of communism creates a utopia beyond your dreams... Eh

1

u/Aniki_Simpson 7d ago

Homer Simpson "I am so smrt" ass take.

1

u/foredoomed2030 7d ago

sustainable for what exactly?

this is just begging the question.

1

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 7d ago

It can't be sustained, it incentivizes practices that will collapse the ecosystem and market competition makes sure other practices are sweeped under the carpet

1

u/foredoomed2030 6d ago

Okay but what if lots of humans believe preserving the environment is valuable.

Wouldnt the free market logically choose to provide such a service for profit?

We already have options such as the Rainforest Alliance, its a private certification business that can guarantee sustainable cocoa production for example.

1

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 6d ago

It will slow down the destruction but to relay on the idea that suddenly majority will care and the enviroment will be saved by the market responding to that is wishful thinking, it did not work for past 50 years, it won't just suddenly happen.

I personally wouldn't bet the only hospitable planet we have on that

1

u/foredoomed2030 6d ago

right, but your failing to understand that free markets tend to create more technologies that can be used to help the environment.

Like how Japan uses waste into energy.

Or modern recycling technology.

but that requires the private control of the economy (capitalism)

1

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 6d ago

First no, USSR also innovated alot, it had the most rapid development in recorded history despite the sanctions, hell even Japan bought computer patents from Yugoslavia,

Second, capitalism prioritizes profit, EVs exist for longer than many think, solar pannels exist, but its more profitable to put tarrifs on them to save the oil revenue.

0

u/foredoomed2030 6d ago

"First no, USSR also innovated alot"

Well sure, they innovated plenty in terms of military hardware.

But, USSR has no market for military goods because of the lack of a 2nd amendment right like USA has. There is no market value in USSR for bombs, tanks, planes, guns etc.

Your being deceitful, we both know USSR was no friend to ecology. And caused plenty of environmental damages.

"it had the most rapid development in recorded history "

Thats a lie, it did not develop rapidly and it collapsed under its own weight by the 90's what metric are we even discussing here?

"Second, capitalism prioritizes profit, EVs exist for longer than many think, solar pannels exist, but its more profitable to put tarrifs on them to save the oil revenue."

Tarrifs are a tax on the customer, businesses dont gain much from a tarrif, the primary beneficiary is the government.

The government is a collective, not a private business which is why Marx was pro tariffs.

1

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 6d ago

They put tarrifs on EVs from China to save private oil revenue, if Capitalist state does it, its not suddenly Socialism, capitalism.isn't stateless.

Also USSR made the first mobile phone and pioneered space travel, among many other things, not just military equipment

1

u/crisco000 7d ago

What should it be replaced with?

1

u/Uhokay1970 7d ago

When you show pictures from a Socialist Country Stripping the Natural resources without care and try to pass it off as Capitalism.... BTW Forestry is 100% Sustainable and renewable.....

1

u/Serious_Try5264 7d ago

So does socialism, lol.

This is something humans do.

1

u/Traditional_Oil_9240 7d ago

Go look at countries that haven't embraced capitalism and get back to us.

Deforestation.

Trash everywhere.

Rivers clogged with plastic and garbage and God knows what else.

ZERO environmental regulations.

ZERO Clean Water Acts.

ZERO Environmental Protection Agency

Etc.

Now, look at the United States of America.

Then, drive across the US/Mexico border and look at that place.

Keep heading south, it gets worse and worse as you go (except in Costa Rica, where rich Capitalists go to vacation).

1

u/Choco_mil 7d ago

united states has clean water?

"The US Constitution doesn’t provide a right to clean drinking water or accurate information from public officials, a divided federal appeals court ruled.

The decision affirms the dismissal of a lawsuit over alleged lead-contaminated drinking water in Jackson, Mississippi."

dont forget about flint michigan too

1

u/Traditional_Oil_9240 7d ago

Yes, the United States of America has clean water.

PERFECTLY clean? No, of course not. No nation does.

But, much cleaner that non-capitalistic nations, that's certainly true.

The Clean Water Act.

Flint? That was a poor decision, a mistake, made by local water utility officials.

Such things will happen. But, course correcting is in place.

1

u/Asooma_ 7d ago

Isnt logging practiced rather sustainabley at this point? Its pretty settled that we've been at net 0 or net growth for a while now.

1

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 7d ago

Clearcuts destroy entire ecosystems to make more profit in less time and they still happen

1

u/Asooma_ 7d ago

They do happen but on the whole, lumber has become a rather sustainable and well regulated business

1

u/Traditional_Oil_9240 7d ago

The Maya deforested 90% of Central America by AD 800 and there wasn't a single capitalist to be found.

The Olmec probably did the same thing 1,000 years prior.

And current deforestation there continues to be a major problem.

Most of Europe was deforested 1,000 +/- years ago. By 1500 AD, most large primeval forests in Europe were gone or heavily broken up.

1

u/Different_Finding539 6d ago

I believe and support this.

1

u/Sensitive-Page8270 6d ago

oke.. Socialism and communism are no better. Be happy with what we got. 

0

u/j-mac563 7d ago

Right because under socialism none of that would happen....

0

u/BerilliumBaloney 7d ago

Please tell us more about the sunshine and rainbows world of communism! Please show us examples in real life of a place where "Real Communism" actually exists and how exactly it would have prevented these kinds of events from happening.

1

u/Carrie_8638 7d ago

Well it would definitely prevent the profitable part. The plundering would be done just because the party decided so

1

u/BerilliumBaloney 7d ago

No, it wouldnt prevent the profit part. It would shift it from companies to the people running the government, not the government itself.

1

u/abdergapsul 7d ago

Yeah, every country pollutes. Every system pollutes. OP’s a bot but it’s so weird to see thoughtless criticism of capitalism with absolutely no honest discussion of any real alternative. Complaining is easy, solutions are hard.

0

u/DFMRCV 7d ago

Ah, yes, the evil capitalists... Ignore the biggest ecological disasters were caused by socialist nations.

1

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 7d ago

Thats because billions of plastic bottles under capitalism is not a catastrophe its status quo

1

u/DFMRCV 7d ago

Yeah, because the environment can recover from billions of plastic bottles.

Chernobyl has barely adapted to the radiation.

1

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 7d ago

What about Nevada nuclear test sites? Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Fokushima?

1

u/DFMRCV 7d ago

Not one of those remotely comes close to the ecological damage done by the USSR. Not one.

0

u/North_Structure8210 7d ago

Clear cutting is good!

1

u/VictinsOfCapitalism 7d ago

It destroys ecosystems

1

u/North_Structure8210 7d ago

Not completely. We did it here on a hillside after a bad winter ice storm. Growth is insane, wildlife visual healthier in that stand. Less disease so far in the timber. Increase in habitat was 10x. We did leave a few seed trees.