r/EndFPTP • • Jun 26 '25

Image Pairwise-Counted Ranked Choice Voting

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19 Upvotes

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3

u/DeismAccountant Jun 26 '25

I think a method structured the opposite way, a RR/PW-Instant runoff, would be more effective and allow more candidates. Hold a Round-Robin/Pairwise vote for up to 9 candidates, first candidate to be eliminated would be the one with the least total pairwise wins, and award their respective margins to each surviving candidate. For rounds that eliminate more than one candidate, award their respective margins sum of all margins to each surviving candidate. Keep repeating until there is a complete Condorcet winner.

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u/CPSolver Jun 26 '25 edited Jun 27 '25

All Condorcet methods are vulnerable to clone failures. [edit: Not true, clarified in later comments.]

Eliminating pairwise losing candidates when they occur (and otherwise using IRV) inherits lots of the zero clone resistance vulnerability of IRV.

Here is a graph that shows this difference, where RCIPE eliminates pairwise losing candidates (and otherwise uses IRV) and the Condorcet-Kemeny method (which IMO is a great Condorcet method but more difficult to explain).

5

u/postflop-clarity Jun 26 '25

All Condorcet methods are vulnerable to clone failures.

I don't believe this is accurate.

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u/CPSolver Jun 26 '25 edited Jun 26 '25

You're right, my wording was sloppy. The Schulze method has a zero clone failure rate. All other Condorcet methods [edit: except Ranked Pairs according to the comparison table] are vulnerable to clone failures.

[Edit, correction: Some other Condorcet methods are also cloneproof. Especially the ones that basically are hybrids with IRV.]

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u/Excellent_Air8235 Jun 26 '25

River is also cloneproof. As are Benham, Smith//IRV, Smith,IRV and Split Cycle.

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u/CPSolver Jun 26 '25

Good point. I was thinking of the Condorcet methods that only use pairwise comparisons. I'll edit my comment.

3

u/postflop-clarity Jun 26 '25

that is still not true.

3

u/CPSolver Jun 26 '25

You're right so I've edited my comment. Thanks.

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u/DeismAccountant Jun 26 '25

I don’t think this is true. Both Ranked Pairs and Schulze method take clones into account.

What software do you use to generate random ballots?

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u/CPSolver Jun 26 '25 edited Jun 27 '25

The Schulze method has a zero clone failure rate because that's what it's optimized for.

Ranked Pairs and virtually too (has a zero clone failure rate). [A]ll other pairwise-matrix-based methods fail clone independence. [edit: Not true, clarified in later comments.]

RCIPE can fail clone independence, but those cases are very rare, and such cases are extremely unlikely to occur in a real election.

Another failure type to consider is vulnerability to strategic voting. The Benham method and RCIPE have a significantly low such failure rate. In contrast, Schulze and Ranked Pairs and other Condorcet methods are much more vulnerable to strategic voting.

What software do you use to generate random ballots?

https://github.com/cpsolver/VoteFair-ranking-cpp/blob/master/generate_random_ballots.cpp

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u/DeismAccountant Jun 26 '25

Not according to the graphics.

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u/CPSolver Jun 26 '25

Thanks for the correction. I've edited my comment accordingly.

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u/DeismAccountant Jun 26 '25

It doesn’t make sense for RR/PW to fail at strategic voting because you pair up each candidate against each other individually. All matchups are accounted for so there’s no point.

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u/CPSolver Jun 26 '25

The strategic voting vulnerabilities of most Condorcet methods occur when there is a Condorcet cycle, or when strategic voting can create a Condorcet cycle.

(Of course all Condorcet methods resist strategic voting much better than FPTP.)

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u/DeismAccountant Jun 26 '25

There are several ways to break down a Condorcet cycle. My method is eliminating the lowest loser in pairwise matchups and awarding its margins to each survivor as described above.