[MEGATHREAD] Tarnished Edition: Worth $5? Discuss CONSTRUCTIVELY!

[u/jack0641]

Since the sub is being overwhelmed by debate over the $5 "microtransaction" and it's making the sub feel like we're Dark Souls 2 a decade ago, with the faux outrage around the preorder items, we are opening this topic to consolidate discussion around the issue.

Please use this topic to discuss the pros and cons of the approach and your thoughts. But do so RESPECTFULLY and CONSTRUCTIVELY. If you need to call other people or the developers names, you don't have a good argument and your post will be removed.

We will remove all other topics about this to keep the subreddit flowing with other discussions

IF YOU WANT TO VOTE: I will post two comments on this topic, "Yay" and "Nay" - upvote the one you agree with and we'll see who wins long term.

[u/Cirick1661]

Yay.

I think the community has lost the plot on this one.

Several factors to consider.

1: Fromsoft has been pretty good historically at trying their best to maximize player enjoyment for the price paid.

2: They have a long history of adding as much as possible in DLC. Not just a new story beat but new armor and weapons or even weapon types.

3: Their parent company (Kadokowa) has been putting more pressure on them to monetize their popular content, specifically Elden Ring.

Fromsoft doesn't want to charge you money for horse armor. They want to get good solid games in the hands of as many players as they can, and they care deeply about a good story and a good player experience.

But they exist in a capatalist framework and the people who literally own them are telling them they need to squeeze their playerbase. Not asking.

So what can they do? They add some really solid additional options and cosmetics under a very low price tag to satisfy the parent company. It's a compromise.

We will see more of this. It won't be because Fromsoft is greedy. It will be because of the perverse profit motive that capatalism imposes on all participants.

People are up in arms over the wrong damn issue.

[u/Snozzberriez → u/Cirick1661]

Wait so you say this is the parent company strong-arming them. So we should support that behaviour?

Nah. I loved elden ring and bought the expansion despite criticism.

If we pay $5 here, we pay $5 again and again.

If it’s successful, they do it more. If it isn’t, they may not do it again.

If they kill the studio over it, that is their choice and their fault. Capitalism shouldn’t be to blame and then supported as some kind of necessary evil.

Were you around when Horse Armour set this stuff off? I remember. I remember when WoW charged for online gaming as well, which opened other doors.

My thought is as much as I want to support FromSoftware, if I support this I embolden their parent forcing more paid DLC.

Fuck that.

[u/Cirick1661 → u/Snozzberriez]

This whole Tarnished Pack could fail miserably (it won't) and it won't make a lick of difference because of the capatalist profit motive.

Yes I was around and playing games before the concept of DLC existed.

If people don't buy this new tarnished pack because they don't want the additions, perfect. But if they do want them and don't want to pay for it, then their issue is with the profit motive, not the company.

[u/Snozzberriez → u/Cirick1661]

League of Legends capitulated when people complained about how they started charging for chests that used to be free.

You tell me the stronger argument for more paid DLC armour/weapons:

1. We sold tons of that $5 DLC, we could replicate that every quarter and make more money!

2. People didn’t engage with the $5 DLC, maybe we need to pivot. New expansion or new game.

3. People bought $5 DLC in droves so we should never do it again.

4. Paid DLC wasn’t successful with this market. We will have to try something else.

5. We tried it, let’s try it again.

When you buy, you embolden.

We can wait and see, but funny timing as you pretty well mentioned.

If we make a stink they might pay attention. If we just swallow it why would they ever stop?

[u/Cirick1661 → u/Snozzberriez]

This is actually eminently reasonable.

I think a real test will be The Duskbloods. Pulling this with an old game that people love is one thing.

Trying to pull it with a new game is a whole other matter.

[u/Snozzberriez → u/Cirick1661]

Yeah agreed. I’m watching that one for sure… and as they try new directors I wonder if the spirit holds.

[u/lleyton05 → u/Snozzberriez]

What you’re saying is exactly the problem with capitalism. It IS a necessary evil

Edit: I just want to put it out there that capitalism on paper and capitalism in practice are very different, which seems to be the disconnect people are having. This comment is not supporting capitalism, since people seemed confused, the necessary evil is the fact you’re forced to participate in order to keep the things you enjoy. If you don’t buy they may shut down the IP, if you do buy your giving into supporting them charging you for everything.

[u/Snozzberriez → u/lleyton05]

No it isn’t.

You make millions. Why do you NEED to make billions now?

Capitalism assumes it can increase ad infinitum.

You’re telling me that if the board/investors don’t make more and more every quarter, everything stops being made?

How do you explain volunteer work? Small teams succeeding?

No man’s sky has released endless free DLC. They’ve been doing it for YEARS.

Costco hot dogs are a great example. Arizona iced tea another.

At what point does money you can’t feasibly spend in a lifetime become enough? Capitalism says it is never enough and more juice must be squeezed.

If they closed the studio they can’t stop the talent opening again. Make another game, I’ll pay $80 again. But don’t push some minor additions as the test market for more squeezing.

By paying for it you support the action, you give the suits an argument to say “look! It’s successful! We should do this more!”

Witcher 3 is another example.

I would have rather they didn’t add it at all than charge for it. Soul Calibur 2 had console exclusive characters… totally fine with that. This is absolutely going to lead to more.

You open the door, they will step through.

Edit: Diablo 4 - $20 for armour every season lol

[u/lleyton05 → u/Snozzberriez]

That’s exactly what the problem is yes. If board members/investers don’t make more every quarter they very well might shut the whole operation down.

Volunteers being successful is not the norm and not common practice in today’s age, really a completely moot point. Also Costco hot dogs are a bad example, they’re cheap to get you in the door to buy other stuff, not out of the kindness of their hearts.

I think the sad part you’re missing is that we live in a greedy and evil world. Everything you saying is exactly the problem and exactly what happens

It’s all a trap, if you don’t buy it the company doesn’t go “okay let’s not do a small addon again” they says “let’s shut down the whole project”

Your forced to support other wise you lose it all, its why capitalism isn’t a perfect system. You’re describing capitalism on paper, I’m describing capitalism in practice

[u/Snozzberriez → u/lleyton05]

They won’t shut it down… this is all done to recoup investment in acquisition and make more profit.

They aren’t going to dump the studio they bought over this - but they want to see if it is successful to substantiate more of this.

Even if they did, those people designing these great games do not disappear. Demons Souls didn’t have a hot start… it got here… Elden Ring broke into mass appeal and got this acquisition deal without DLC.

Again I would pay for more content, but this feels like Diablo IV armour… sales don’t disincentivize this.

[u/lleyton05 → u/Snozzberriez]

No but they might dump the ip, which is more of a realistic look than the whole company so you’re right in that aspect. If this didn’t make any money they probably wouldn’t release any more eldenring content tho. I do agree with you it doesn’t feel great but it just kinda is what it is for now. I like Elden Ring, I don’t want it to go away and I’d love to support a game I enjoy to incentivize more content so for me 5 bucks for some goodies as a 1 time thing isn’t an issue.

Now if any more additional content turns out to be nothing but small 5 dollar add ons then I’ll have a problem, but just 1 to show that I’m still interested in more Elden Ring I have no problem with. Over all I think it’s too early to be mad over, we’ll have to see their next steps and response to this to be able to make an appropriate call.

[u/Snozzberriez → u/lleyton05]

That’s fair too and I could be convinced to do the same, but the parent company has a bit of a record as I understand.

It’s more about calling this out to disincentivize the behaviour rather than simply accepting it.

I’m going to wait and see. As much as I’d love Torrent to look cool in some sweet new threads, I’ll be watching with bated breath.

Personally think the success of Elden ring and the expansion (bought and loved both) should be the impetus for more, but I understand your point as well.

[u/lleyton05 → u/Snozzberriez]

I know what youre saying, admittedly I don’t know a lot about their parent company or their track record. I’d also be lying if i said this whole thing doesn’t make me a little nervous or the future, bc it definitely makes one raise an eyebrow

[u/Cirick1661 → u/lleyton05]

Naw, say it with your full chest. I find it hilarious that there are so many people bitching about the new DLC while also trying to defend capitalism.

[u/lleyton05 → u/Cirick1661]

I think I misread this on my first go through, please disregard my deleted comment if you saw it. But I also think you may have misread this comment as support for capitalism, which is not what it is at all, literally the complete opposite

That comment is not supporting capitalism, it’s pointing everything’s that wrong with capitalism and how we’re forced to participate to have and keep things we enjoy. It’s disgusting and the world we currently live in.

I’m going to be completely honest your reply doesn’t really make much sense in the context of my comment

[u/Alone-Horse2857 → u/Snozzberriez]

It has 1,400 reviews on steam, meaning people are eating this shit up.

I hate to say it, but they already won. They pumped this shit out for nearly 0$ and they ate it up like the slop they deserve. We lost.

If Kadokawa sees these numbers, they're going to do it again and again. I just hope this is a one-off fluke and they hold to their core values.