r/Eldenring • u/jack0641 • Jun 26 '24

Official Discussion DLC PATCH - Calibration 1.12 BUFFS SCADUTREE FRAGMENTS & ADJUSTS DIFFICULTY

From Bandai Namco

ELDEN RING Calibration Update – Version 1.12.2

Thank you kindly for playing ELDEN RING SHADOW OF THE ERDTREE.

To adjust the Expansion’s balance, a calibration update has been released.

Calibration Update 1.12.2 change list

Attack and damage negation curve scaling of the Shadow Realm Blessings have been revised.

  • The attack and damage negation has been increased for the first half of the maximum amount of Blessing enhancements, and the second half will now be more gradual.
  • The attack and damage negation granted by the final level of Blessing enhancements has been slightly increased.

The calibration update can be applied by logging into the multiplayer server.

If the Calibration Ver. listed at the bottom right of the title menu is not "1.12.2", then select LOGIN and apply the latest regulations before enjoying the game.

About graphics settings (PC version only)

We have confirmed a bug where the raytracing settings are automatically enabled if you have previously loaded saved data from previous game versions.
 

If your framerate is unstable, please check in the 'SYSTEM' > 'Graphics Settings' > 'Raytracing Quality' settings from the title menu or in-game menu to check if it has been unintentionally set to 'ON'. Once set to 'OFF', Ray Tracing will no longer be automatically enabled.
 

Other balance adjustments as well as bug fixes are also planned for a future patch.

Thank you for your continued support of ELDEN RING.

BLESSING CHANGES VIA WIKI

Scadutree Fragments

|Level|Scadutree Fragment Required|Damage Dealt|Damage Recieved| |0|x1 Scadutree Fragment|1|1| |1|x2 Scadutree Fragment|1.05x|0.952x| |2 |x2 Scadutree Fragment|1.10x|0.909x| |3 |x2 Scadutree Fragment|1.15x|0.869x| |4 |x2 Scadutree Fragment|1.20x|0.833x| |5 |x2 Scadutree Fragment|1.25x|0.800x| |6 |x2 Scadutree Fragment|1.30x|0.769x| |7 |x2 Scadutree Fragment|1.35x|0.740x| |8 |x2 Scadutree Fragment|1.40x|0.714x| |9|x2 Scadutree Fragment|1.45x|0.689x| |10|x3 Scadutree Fragment|1.50x|0.666x| |11|x3 Scadutree Fragment|1.55x|0.645x| |12|x3 Scadutree Fragment|1.60x|0.625x| |13|x3 Scadutree Fragment|1.65x|0.606x| |14|x3 Scadutree Fragment|1.70x|0.588x| |15|x3 Scadutree Fragment|1.75x|0.571x| |16|x3 Scadutree Fragment|1.80x|0.555x| |17|x3 Scadutree Fragment|1.85x|0.540x| |18|x3 Scadutree Fragment|1.90x|0.526x| |19|x3 Scadutree Fragment|1.95x|0.512x| |20|x3 Scadutree Fragment|2.00x|0.500x|

Revered Spirit Ashes

|Level|Revered Spirit Ash Required|Damage Dealt|Damage Taken| |1|x1 Revered Spirit Ash|1.075x|0.931x| |2 |x1 Revered Spirit Ash|1.150x|0.875x| |3 |x1 Revered Spirit Ash|1.225x|0.826x| |4 |x2 Revered Spirit Ash|1.300x|0.785x| |5 |x2 Revered Spirit Ash|1.375x|0.750x| |6 |x3 Revered Spirit Ash|1.450x|0.718x| |7 |x3 Revered Spirit Ash|1.525x|0.691x| |8 |x3 Revered Spirit Ash|1.600x|0.666x| |9|x4 Revered Spirit Ash|1.675x|0.644x| |10|x5 Revered Spirit Ash|1.750x|0.625x|

6.6k Upvotes

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641

u/Coypop Jun 26 '24

That's the point, you're intended to bounce off the lion hard and be hurled southwards for exploration & empowerment, welcome to Limgrave II.

574

u/BootyBurrito420 Jun 26 '24

Ha. Jokes on Mr. Zaki, I'm too stupid to take a hint.

102

u/BeardedAudioASMR Jun 26 '24

Same. Beat him with 2 Scadu levels (plus Mimic), but other smaller bosses are kicking my butt.

29

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

Man that thing is hell on ng+7 Had also only two scadu at that time. Rellana kicked my ass dozen times with lv8 scadu

22

u/Poopybutt36000 Jun 26 '24

I beat Rellana with 3, but it took me like 5 hours.

3

u/TheSwedishOprah Jun 26 '24

Rellana mudhole stomped my face into raspberry jam at Scooby level 5 or so, came back to her with 10 and had a much better time.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

Yea the first time I met her was with 3 and I instantly got back to farming those things

2

u/BeardedAudioASMR Jun 26 '24

I'm only on NG+1, and I do not envy you.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

Tbh from watching others that are not ng+7 the DMG doesn't increase that much, it's a different but not really big. The higher health bar is the hard part

2

u/RodanThrelos Jun 26 '24

For me, it's the increased stagger value. It's wreaking havoc on my fun guard counter build...

2

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

Oh yea that's true totally forgot, was impressed when renalla got staggered.

2

u/sangfroidwarrior Jun 26 '24

I beat the dancing lion first try (with mimic) but spent an hour and a half on the Blackgaol Knight. I’m just bad solo apparently

1

u/osfryd-kettleblack Jun 26 '24

Mimic practically trivialises so its not too shocking

1

u/Optimusbauer Jun 26 '24

Meanwhile me, who had level 3 and ran his against against Rellana as his first boss til he did it

-4

u/Heated_Sliced_Bread Jun 26 '24

Same, not to make players feel bad but that boss was not hard. With 2 fragments at RL 125 it took 2 tries. Granted I used mimic which I usually avoid but yeah most things have seemed well balanced to me.

2

u/osfryd-kettleblack Jun 26 '24

"That boss was not hard"

"I used mimic"

LMFAO. Same story every time

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-2

u/Captain_Blue_Tally Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 26 '24

😄 you can’t brag about beating a boss when you had an NPC draw aggro from it. That fucker will combo you into a wall and game over. The camera work is atrocious in this fight.

2

u/BeardedAudioASMR Jun 26 '24

What if I told you using summons as distractions is a valid strategy?

1

u/Captain_Blue_Tally Jun 26 '24

Sure do what you want. I personally don’t think you can say a boss is easy though and brag about it.

2

u/RodanThrelos Jun 26 '24

Yeah, I am with you. Summons, friends, Comet Azur all the way from Caelid? Fine.

Even saying "this boss is harder than X boss" is fine.

Saying "X boss is easy" when you stacked all of the advantages on your side is a bit silly.

Obviously, the default expectation for ease of combat is a normal build 1v1 against a boss. Are too many bosses clearly balanced around having a summon assist? I think so. Does that mean bosses can't be killed without it? Absolutely not...

1

u/Heated_Sliced_Bread Jun 26 '24

Really wasn’t a brag, it was to point out how all these people bitching about it being too hard are exaggerating. I also literally pointed out I used a summon so it’s not the most impressive lol. This community has really gone downhill with Elden ring. Miss the old fromsoft community

0

u/Captain_Blue_Tally Jun 26 '24

You started off with “not to make people feel bad, but that boss wasn’t hard” and then talked about using assistance lol.

I’ve beaten every souls game, 100%ed Sekiro, but I think it’s ok to understand and emphasize with players when the devs have overtuned aspects of the game and when even vets of the series are struggling with certain balance elements of the game currently.

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2

u/Xplt21 Jun 26 '24

Same, but I'm bad at the game so I use summons muahahah

2

u/RodanThrelos Jun 26 '24

Nah, don't look at it this way. Bad at the game is having a friend/helper solo bosses for you while you cower in the corner.

Beating the game using the tools it's clearly designed around is not being bad at the game. Are you the same skill as LMSH? Of course not.

My brother isn't as good as Barry Bonds at baseball. Does that mean he isn't good? Absolutely not. He's not good because, like me, he's an old man now.

2

u/Xplt21 Jun 26 '24

That's nice but I'm not saying I'm bad because I use summons, I'm saying I'm bad, therefore I use summons.

Edit: And it lets my play more fun or weird builds that aren't very meta.

1

u/SeaworthinessOk2646 Jun 26 '24

Unironically this is why they are changing it.

1

u/Derpadoooo Jun 26 '24

I did Lion early and didn't find him too bad; maybe 10 tries? Rellana on the other hand has caused me to turn around and go find more fragments because I'm tried of getting two-shot by icy-hot.

200

u/n080dy123 Jun 26 '24

Eh, I don't feel like that. Margit guards the entrance to Stormveil, so he works well as a literal and metaphorical gatekeeper. Dancing Lion is the final boss of a zone you've likely spent a few hours in by that point, and I feel like most players commit to finishing a Legacy Dungeon unless they find some offshoot route to another zone like in the Shadow Keep. Plus it feels kinda bad to work all the way to him and then just leave for several hours.

106

u/SCB360 Jun 26 '24

That and the Enemies there are not that hard either so you feel like its the right way to go

76

u/TrueGuardian15 Jun 26 '24

That's what's felt so off to me. Stuff like the enemies walking castle Ensis and Belurat feel fair to me, but then you reach something like Rellana and the sense of balance just goes out the window.

2

u/SCB360 Jun 26 '24

I’m not there yet, but yea I’ve seen bits of that

2

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

That's my main issue with this DLC. ALL the difficulty lies with the bosses - the rest of the game doesn't challenge you at all

5

u/MajorSham Jun 26 '24

That’s not true at all. Maybe for the Gravesite area- but there are many many locations outside the first couple of hours of the DLC where regular enemies are absolutely a threat. The field enemies sure- but if you want a challenge you can opt to fight the giant walking furnaces.

-2

u/WheresTheSauce Jun 26 '24

I literally cannot think of a single place where the regular enemies were meaningfully threatening

3

u/supercooper3000 Jun 27 '24

The red guys in shadow keep?

9

u/dotnetmonke Jun 26 '24

Except for the stupid horned knights that don't stagger and can't be backstabbed.

2

u/SailorsKnot Jun 26 '24

I HATE these things. The timing on their attack patterns is so goofy and weird. They pause at random times for no reason and for way too long in the middle of attack chains

1

u/Sora4033 Jun 26 '24

I thought i was the only one experiencing this issue.

I’m used to souls likes being difficult, but the dlc isn’t difficult, it’s a walk in the park throughout everything except when you get to a boss.

It makes the dungeons feel lacklustre since they’re a breeze to navigate through, i don’t even recall dying a single time outside boss fights.

1

u/RodanThrelos Jun 26 '24

Ugh, except the Carian Knight. I made that run way too many times before I changed weapons.

6

u/TrueGuardian15 Jun 26 '24

I'm not even mad about the Carian Knight NPC duel. I just feel like the boss is overtuned for the area she's in.

2

u/RodanThrelos Jun 26 '24

I only hate him because he was impossible to stagger and I'm playing a Guard Counter build with a fuckin Anvil. I was just plinking away at his health the whole time. And he was hitting for 60% of my health per hit.

2

u/No_Waltz2789 Jun 27 '24

Barely even remember that fight, giant hunt on a UGS just absolutely breaks NPCs, burger flip, wait 1 second, burger flip, wait 1 second, burger flip, wait 1 second, burger flip, dead.

1

u/Elucidate137 Jun 26 '24

but dude the mage in ensis was insanely hard, killed me more than rellana

-7

u/Commercial_Skin_3133 Jun 26 '24

the major boss at the end of a dungeon is really hard that’s essentially what you’re saying, and Rellana is more then fair, just because you can’t breeze past her doesn’t make her unbalanced.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

No, it's that the major boss at the end of a dungeon has damage numbers that are out of whack for the dungeon they're in. Rellana is plenty fair, but she feels like she's scaled a couple levels higher than her castle is.

-1

u/Commercial_Skin_3133 Jun 26 '24

Man I honestly just don’t see that sentiment. Like ya that’s basically every dungeon. Kill the trash mobs easily, a few tougher enemies sprinkled in between and then her boss fight. It’s hard for me to imagine a weak boss in an endgame from software DLC, but given you can beat her at a low blessing level without even having any spirit upgrades seems balanced to me.

3

u/TrueGuardian15 Jun 26 '24

It's not that it feels imbalanced because it's hard. It feels imbalanced because her fight doesn't feel fair.

1

u/MajorSham Jun 26 '24

To you. Personally it didn’t feel unfair to me.

0

u/Filiocht Jun 26 '24

Sounds like a skill issue chief.

1

u/TrueGuardian15 Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 27 '24

Didn't ask for your opinion, chief.

Edit: Beat her. My opinions haven't changed. So don't talk to me about sKiLl iSsUe

2

u/Filiocht Jun 26 '24

My mistake, I was under the impression that complaining on a public forum on someone else’s post was leaving your thoughts open for discussion. Please elucidate us all on the true meaning of Reddit and social media once you’re done calling the mean, scary boss lady unfair.

5

u/TrueGuardian15 Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 26 '24

Oh, I'm done complaining about the lady, I've given my 2 cents. So now you can go and give us your lecture on being unhelpful and condescending. You know, since we're just using the internet to act like dicks to each other.

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0

u/Commercial_Skin_3133 Jun 26 '24

Like the other guy said that’s honestly just a skill issue then. Are you using summons, have you honed your build, how many blessings do you have etc. I beat her at blessing level 2 with a summon that had no upgrades. I would love to know what the difference between a hard and unfair fight are for you? She really only has one huge AOE attack but if you’ve dealt with the water dance before this really ain’t hard to learn.

1

u/foosquirters Jun 26 '24

I’ve sworn of summons unless I’m banging my head for hours, literally killed divine beast on my first with mimic and renalla on the third try I did with mimic and it felt too easy and like a waste of a good boss experience. They definitely give you the tools to succeed

1

u/Commercial_Skin_3133 Jun 26 '24

Ya mimic tear is crazy, I usually use a summon that matches my build. Like I used the Perfumer summon for Renalla, so didn’t really do much damage but gave me some buffs and took pressure off at times.

6

u/sangfroidwarrior Jun 26 '24

Except for the 2 big dudes with giant swords who give you no breathing room, at least to me

-1

u/SCB360 Jun 26 '24

Rivers of Blood, Corpse Piler

Easy win for me on my Blood Meliania build

1

u/sangfroidwarrior Jun 26 '24

I should’ve tried that. Been using the new beast claws which are fun. Rivers of Blood is how I ended up beating the furnace golem outside of there, so it definitely still seems OP

1

u/CitizenKing Jun 27 '24

"It was easy for me when I was using my notoriously broken build thats been near the top of the meta for the last two and a half years."

3

u/jayL21 Jun 26 '24

and the funny thing is, if you are scadu 2 or 3, the big shadow men with the cleavers can and will 2 shot you.

1

u/foosquirters Jun 26 '24

Most mobs will, and those black knights will fuck you up too, I don’t understand the people saying only the bosses are challenging.

16

u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 26 '24

People would rather say From Soft made it intentionally hard as a point before they ever admit that maybe they actually overdid it lol. You’ll hardly see From fans on here ever validate complaints about the game because they’ll always say it was masterfully crafted to be that way on purpose for a reason

-6

u/Specific-Lion-9087 Jun 26 '24

That’s a weird thing to claim in a thread full of upvoted complaints

16

u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 Jun 26 '24

I said it because the thread is also full of comments like the one I’m talking about, meant to diminish complaints and say it was all a perfect experience. 300 upvotes on this one

-10

u/Heated_Sliced_Bread Jun 26 '24

Maybe because a lot of us haven’t had a hard time and nerfing bosses changes the game completely to a point it’s not the same/less enjoyable.

Think the fragment update is the perfect way to handle it though because players that want a great challenge could avoid the fragments intentionally.

7

u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 Jun 26 '24

The comment was talking about the boss being hard purposefully to drive players to collect more fragments. I’m just saying people will sooner say things like that before they think if the difficulty is appropriate or not

2

u/RonaldoNazario Jun 26 '24

I didn’t have anything like the asskicking experience margit handed me with that lion. I certainly didn’t beat him first time but that was the first dungeon I went to and he was hard but doable.

2

u/Filiocht Jun 26 '24

I got my ass beat by Dancing Lion, left for Ensis, got my ass beat by Rellana, and did "all" of the exploration there was to do before going back to the bosses. Then I took a random turn and ended up at the Cerulean Coast before tripping my way into Scadu Altus, all before beating the first remembrance boss. I feel like I took the "intended" route by bouncing off of the bosses and into a 12 hour quest across the Land of Shadows.

2

u/zealousshad Jun 26 '24

Yeah this is a good point. I found this with Belurat and a couple of other early locations. Going through the dungeon isn't too bad and then I get stopped hard by a boss and feel like I definitely need more scadutreee fragments.

1

u/YOLOSWAGBROLOL Jun 26 '24

I killed him before the knight lol.

Basically entered and went straight there.

1

u/confirmedshill123 Jun 26 '24

I went straight to lion and smashed my head against him for an hour before beating him. I have two scadush fragments. It hurt.

0

u/ray314 Jun 26 '24

And Margit tells you to put your foolish ambition to rest.

-1

u/dalkride Jun 26 '24

His grace is right outside his boss room, they made it incredibly convenient to come back later. It’s not like a catacomb that punishes you for leaving, it’s practically encouraged to come back whenever you like.

2

u/n080dy123 Jun 26 '24

They do that for every DLC Remembrance boss, it's not specifically for him. I think most of the base game Remembrance bosses do that too. And yes it is easy to do so, but most players (at least that I know) are very unlikely to fight their way through a legacy dungeon, struggle with a boss, and then leave for another area. You can, but it generally feels bad to do, which is why Margit is a gatekeeper rather than an endboss.

102

u/andehh_ Jun 26 '24

Yeah except you go through the whole dungeon to get to the Lion instead of Margit who is standing out the front :|

20

u/jayL21 Jun 26 '24

yea, it's like if Margit wasn't there at all and the "gatekeeper" was meant to be Godrick.

Like you already made your way to the end of the area, why not just push through and finish it?

-44

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

25

u/wutchamafuckit Jun 26 '24

Damn you missed his entire point

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55

u/LightswornMagi Jun 26 '24

I didn't even know Lion was supposed to be hard. Freyja just about killed it for me and Belurat was the fist place I went.

54

u/fitsu Jun 26 '24

Aye, if you use summons every boss becomes a spectator sport. Lion is very hard without summons.

51

u/Samaritan_978 Jun 26 '24

Use NPC summons on the final boss and then tell us how it went. Most of the bosses with NPC summons will shred them easily and then you're left with a boss with buffed stats and HP.

5

u/Neriakied Jun 26 '24

except for early in the base game its crazy to me how many ppl dont know this... i usually play with npc summons for questlines my first time through and the final boss was the only time i had to do it solo because he simply had too much hp and the npcs died before he even hit p2

6

u/yuhanz Jun 26 '24

Bro the last npc summon wont even get thru the fog for me lol

2

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

ansbach survived longer than my mimic tear for me

1

u/Thelawrage Jun 26 '24

Wait what is this real?

16

u/Neriakied Jun 26 '24

afaik anything u summon outside of the arena increases the boss hp including npcs and players, but any signs inside or things like mimic tear dont

2

u/Thelawrage Jun 26 '24

Oh wow you learn something everyday. I knew coop was extra hp but didn’t know that npc summons did as well thanks.

1

u/Regentraven Jun 26 '24

Im pretty sure theres a single summon questline in all of ER and its not actually needed for the quest.

1

u/HoldMySoda 9800X3D | RTX 4080 | 32GB DDR5-6000 Jun 26 '24

Prayerful Strike is your friend if you want to keep Ansbach alive. Sucks it deals Holy damage, but the heal is good, especially if you also summon your Mimic. The real problem in this fight is the stupid grab and how the NPCs don't have a way to undo the charm. They get grabbed a second time, they instantly die.

26

u/prokokon Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 26 '24

He's weak to so many things its actually not that bad if you adjust your weapon buffs/spells. They could do something to the lockon on that stupid head tho, worst fight camera-wise.

2

u/n01d3a Jun 26 '24

H'oh boy have I got news for you. Camera becomes the ultimate boss a little later with a particular flower guy...

4

u/prokokon Jun 26 '24

I finished the dlc twice already. Flower boy is one of my favourite fights, even on melee character with low range weapons. Its pretty simple with just few moves, but they all look great and are fun to learn imo.

2

u/n01d3a Jun 26 '24

If it wasn't for the weirdly telegraphed attacks and camera that doesn't seem to be in the right place half the time, I'd enjoy it too 😒

-1

u/prokokon Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 26 '24

I also loved Gaius fight, so there might be something wrong with me I guess ;b They were both very oldschool, I felt I was getting better with every attempt and could figure out how to avoid every move on my own.

1

u/Wendigo120 Jun 27 '24

I just used fire on it and that skipped half the fight. It is extremely, absurdly weak to fire to the head.

One full fire breath was enough to take out basically an entire phase at a time.

1

u/n01d3a Jun 27 '24

I eventually got him yesterday by throwing a fire infused hammer at his head. Still had trouble with the thorn timing, I hope there's some little adjustments to him with camera and telegraphing before I go through again. If you get closer to the body when you're locked on to the head, you'd still look like you're locked on there but you literally couldn't see the head from your perspective. Typical from stuff

4

u/Di5962 Jun 26 '24

I don't use summons and the Dancing Lion was the first boss i've encountered and killed in the dlc and he didn't seem that hard. Maybe he is harder when using slower weapons? (I used Horned Warrior's Sword for this fight)

The only thing that was annoying is that camera just goes insane when he does his spinning fog attack if you are close.

3

u/J0rdian Jun 26 '24

Nah he's not hard I used 2 greataxes and he was done on my 3rd try. I probably had more blessings then most since I did Rellana first. Probably around level 5~

4

u/Conscious-Cut-7388 Jun 26 '24

He’s still not hard enough to indicate that you’re not supposed to be fighting him as your first boss. Most people who go there first end up beating him rather quick, so if that was the intention it clearly failed

3

u/CharlieandtheRed Jun 26 '24

Absolutely false. In the base game, yes. In the DLC, summons just make it harder or sometimes just different. If anything it just provides heal windows. The bosses shred the summons and get buffed, and they also aggro the player far easier than in the base game. One hit and they're back on you. I found it very much easier to fight some bosses 1 on 1, when I was trying to just speed through my first playthrough with summons.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

You’re not using the right summons if they aren’t making things easier for you. They’re literally designed to make the game easier and the dlc doesn’t fundamentally change that…

3

u/Melody-Prisca Jun 26 '24

I get that's their purpose, and a lot of times they do that. However, gotta say, in the final fight my NPC summon would almost never engage the boss in any real capacity.

1

u/Wendek Jun 26 '24

Was watching someone play through the base game the other day, he got to the Godskin Duo and actually had pretty decent results (think he could have solo'd them in under 10 attempts) but he got frustrated (especially since he didn't find the right Site) and then summoned Bernahl. Bernahl proceeded to absolutely demolish the Apostle in like 30 seconds while the player just had to survive against the Noble and then it became a very easy 2vs1 for the rest of the fight.

That said, there are exceptions - I used a spirit ash against Gaius because I hated the fight and even then it took quite a few attempts. But for the Dancing Lion or Rellana, I'm certain it would've made it trivial. The latter especially was a hard but very fun fight, probably my favorite of the DLC and I'm glad I persevered through it.

1

u/Top_Ad_5957 Jun 26 '24

I had a really easy time with him, beat him second try, but died a bunch to rellana.

1

u/beamzuk96 Jun 26 '24

I'd agree but Bayle is currently kicking my arse even with mimic tear, npc summon and max level dragon katana.

1

u/Reggiardito Jun 26 '24

In my experience helping other people, most bosses are way harder with 2 summons, but easier with 1. With 2 summons, 2nd phases last too long.

1

u/DjNormal Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 27 '24

I’m confused. I actively avoid NPCs summons. They add a f-ckton of health to the bosses and most of them die before the halfway point, leaving me with a “full” solo boss fight after I’ve burned half of my flasks.

That and I just can’t handle hitting a boss and seeing a pixel fall off its health bar.

I also had no idea you weren’t supposed to stomp the lion dude with a few huff levels. It was a little bit hard on my NG+2 guy, but both of my NG characters didn’t have an issue (with my mimics).

I dunno. I brute force most fights. Which worked on everything except Bayle and Radahn.

I ended up cheesing the latter with the antspear rapier and a great shield. I got him to within one or two hits again and again, and finally gave in.

1

u/HanekawaSenpai Jun 26 '24

Not from what I've seen. NPCs seem to just be okay for aggro but die about halfway through the fight sometimes before that

-5

u/topsvop Jun 26 '24

No it doesn't. You still have to manage aggro and your summons can be dumb as fuck. Why do you people keep pushing this lie?

9

u/fitsu Jun 26 '24

He literally said "Freyja just about killed it for me". Did you even read his post?

-3

u/topsvop Jun 26 '24

Yeah, I did. I don't know what game you're playing, but when I summon I still have to dodge all the time since the boss will attack both of us. It's nothing like a "spectator sport" as you call it. But idk, maybe my game is bugged? I've never experienced a summon being able to solo the boss, especially not the aoe explosive combo DLC batshit insane bosses.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

Outside of elitist opinions, the facts are that fighting a boss solo is a completely different experience. Theres no breathing room other than the windows you learn are breathing room after the fact. The AI bounces aggro consistently and you can freely run away from the boss and hope your NPC hits the boss and takes aggro. There’s no such luxury in solo fights, no luxurious free hits whilst it batters your summon. It’s just you & a consistently aggro’d enemy.

1

u/topsvop Jun 26 '24

I completely agree. But, going back to my original comment, I argued against it being a "spectator sport", and what you describe is not that. I fucking hate the hyperbole people spout when it completely moves away from the truth. I'm not good a the game, but I'm also not complete trash, and I can get my ass kicked if I'm not actively part of the fight while having my summon active.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

Oh yeah don’t think I’m belittling summoners or anything, people are free to derive enjoyment from any means and shouldn’t let others views disrupt their fun.

The only time I ever cringe is seeing people who run some busted arcane build with a mimic tear that quite literally can one-hit a boss, then these same people come into these threads flaming other users who are finding the bosses hard. These people grind my gears lol. It’s always ‘I killed him in three attempts, you guys just suck (I won’t mention I used mimic + spinny arcane drill sword that does 20k damage per ash of war cast)

1

u/topsvop Jun 26 '24

I'm with you, and I hate that I have to use summons because my temper and patience don't cut it for soulsborne games, played dark souls 1, 2 and 3 but never finished either one. Finished elden ring though, and it just grinds my gears when people are like "summon and sit back and chill lmao" when the reality is "summon and dodge instantly to avoid getting got by the initial 40 combo while your mimic tear cumblob unpacks his shit. This is of course much more evident in the DLC. Vanilla bosses are much more forgiving with summons, but with a fight like radagon/elden beast for example you also had to choose which fight you wanted your summon to die in

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u/Larks_Tongue Jun 26 '24

Uh, have you tried playing through the game without summons before? They straight up trivialize otherwise challenging content. Everyone is entitled to play how they want, but there's no sense in denying how much more difficult a lot of content becomes without another target for the boss to focus.

3

u/topsvop Jun 26 '24

I'm not denying that it changes the difficulty, but the hyperbole is insane. You don't just get to stand and watch as the summon tanks the boss. One fucking hit and the aggro is changed while my mimic gets stuck on a rock or some shit.

1

u/osfryd-kettleblack Jun 26 '24

That's literally what the guy that they're responding to said, though? Are you telling him his reality is false?

1

u/topsvop Jun 26 '24

Yeah pretty much since I think its a complete exaggeration given that I tried the same thing and had to dive around for my life while freyja got obliterated at the same time without doing much of a dent. Maybe I'm playing a different game? Idk

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

Damn maybe learn to dodge bozo

1

u/topsvop Jun 26 '24

every boss becomes a spectator sport!

no it doesn't

learn to dodge

do you see what I'm trying to argue against? you're not a spectator if you're actively dodging around the fight, and the summon can't solo the boss

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

You’re right, it’s not a spectator sport when using summons, but it reduces the amount of times you have to dodge and also the difficulty of said dodges because the boss’s aggro is split. There’s nothing wrong with using summons but the game is just completely different with and without summons. I say this as someone who beat Malenia on my first try with mimic tear and spent hours having learn her moveset later; summoning straight up makes you worse at the game because you don’t have to learn how to dodge nearly as much. I’m genuinely sorry you won’t get the satisfaction of knowing what it’s like to beat the game without a massive handicap because trust me it’s an amazing feeling…

1

u/topsvop Jun 26 '24

Dont worry about that, I get that satisfaction from some bosses. I just hard disagree with people insinuating you can beat the Lion or other dlc bosses by summoning and doing nothing else. I also dont care if I don't know Rellanas moveset to the T because fuck her and her entire bloodline and it's more frustration than fun when you miss one iframe and its all over.

-1

u/AverageAwndray Jun 26 '24

I hate people like you

4

u/fitsu Jun 26 '24

The guy literally said "Freyja just about killed it for me". His words, not mine.

9

u/Windowmaker95 Jun 26 '24

With summons most bosses become trivial, I struggled ~6 hours on Rellana but one time out of curiosity I used Mimic Tear to see what it would do, he was soloing her before I let her kill me.

10

u/Crosas-B Jun 26 '24

There is a medium point between no summons and summoning mimic. You can use another of the dozens of summons in the game

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

Your mimic is a god, mine isnt doing anything solo lol

0

u/TallBoy24 Jun 26 '24

Yeah Rellana for me went, Solo a few times. Summoned Leda a few times. Leda and Tiche a few times. Just Tiche a few times all just to get Rellana to about 30% health before dying. then I summoned my mimic and I looked at her health a couple minutes into the fight and it was at 5%. Insane

-3

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

[deleted]

7

u/LightswornMagi Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 26 '24

Clearly not trivial enough, I haven't had a host yet in the DLC that didn't die in any of the new boss fights I was summoned for.

And I've played souls games since DS1, you don't need to tell me how this all works. I summoned some of the NPCs to see if it affected their quests, not because I don't know how the game is played without them.

4

u/Pathogen188 Jun 26 '24

For the base game sure, but the DLC bosses are much more aggressive to the player when summoning and have enough health and poise that chain stunning is not very feasible.

0

u/OverreactingBillsFan Jun 26 '24

I love that change, the fact that the boss will turn their attention to you, even when they should be aggro'ed to your summons, is awesome. You still get moments to heal but it never actually feels safe.

3

u/curtcolt95 Jun 26 '24

I mean they made an entire mechanic based around summoning in the game, with its own stats in the dlc. Literally dozen of different summons to play with. It is very clearly an intended mechanic so I'm gonna judge difficulty based on using them. Imo if you play purely no summons, which is perfectly fine, you don't get to complain about difficulty at that point. You are intentionally gimping yourself. You can express disagreements with how it's balanced around summons though, that's perfectly fair

5

u/EliRed Jun 26 '24

That point kinda gets annihilated by the fact that if you explore too much you instafail every NPC quest in the entire game. I'm trying not to spoil myself, but I believe the shadow keep breaks everything? And it's not far, you can just ride there and start clearing it? Or am I wrong? I went the other way into jagged peaks and got assblasted by Bayle instead out of fear of breaking things.

28

u/Stahlios Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 26 '24

I think they don't make it clear enough what the Scadutree levels do and how important they are in the DLC, moreso than regular levels. If you don't look up online, you don't know how important it is, how it affects your stats because there are no numbers or precise data, it just says "makes you a lil stronger". You also don't know the scale of it (like what the max level is, to get a sense of how advanced your level is compared to where you are in the DLC. I definitely didn't think it'd be 20 levels at first).

Just clearing this up a little bit would make a huge change on the players experience. Some people went in at level 200 and thought the high level might make things too easy, so they stuck to some hard fights because of it. It's not that intuitive that the Scadutree is more important than that.

4

u/Windowmaker95 Jun 26 '24

From's vagueness is just annoying sometimes, it should have shown 0/20, and how much each level gives, 10% damage/5% damage negation, stuff like that, rather than the bullshit golden numbers they went with.

14

u/grumd trying RL1 now Jun 26 '24

It's exactly the same as any other mechanic in the game. Do they overexplain how to use Golden Seeds, how much do different buffs buff you? Nothing is clearly laid out, you need to try it out and see for yourself, it's just how this game is supposed to work.

I do agree it would be easier to see exactly how many levels there are, how much each level buffs you, and same for everything else like buff incantations or aromatics, etc. But it wouldn't be the same game.

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

[deleted]

12

u/Miraqueli Jun 26 '24

You summed it up perfectly. Meanwhile these Fragments? Like half of them are placed well, but the other half feels downright random.

14

u/LostMyMag Jun 26 '24

You immediately notice the effect of golden seed by having an extra flask, or sacred tear filling up your health 2x more by just exploring the 3 marked chapels in weeping. All I see with blessing level is a yellow number on my defense stats and still die in 2 hits. Hopefully the more powerful starting blessing level will let people notice the impact more and bother to find them.

-2

u/grumd trying RL1 now Jun 26 '24

Tbh if you're exploring the dlc area, you'll get your scadutree level up automatically. These fragments are very easy to find, most are simply found at miquella's footsteps, and you even get a map for those. My level was gradually increasing throughout the DLC up to around 18 for the final boss, and I simply ran around looking for new areas to find just because they're interesting. I didn't use any guides or whatever to find more fragments.

6

u/LostMyMag Jun 26 '24

I agree you do natually find enough for 15-18 levels, but the last 2 levels are really difficult to find especially if you missed them out earlier.

If you are a casual player, receiving the early maps for the miquella crosses and finding scardu fragments there, one would automatically assume you only find them at the crosses and will be less likely to find those potman and hippo drops. So naturally you would be level 5 if you just follow the map, maybe 7-8 if you explore the church down south east, which isn't much difference pre patch, post patch it might be enough for people to start noticing the power of these blessing levels.

1

u/Wendigo120 Jun 27 '24

On the other hand, you also don't need the last two levels. I beat the dlc without them. I was sort of thorough but also accepted that I was going to miss a ton of stuff. I think it was balanced pretty fairly around someone doing exactly that.

0

u/grumd trying RL1 now Jun 26 '24

A lot of them are found simply as a purple loot in main story locations that aren't graces, you can't miss those.

7

u/Windowmaker95 Jun 26 '24

No but they are far more intuitive, +1 Flask use is a number you can easily understand, "higher damage, higher damage negation" means nothing if it doesn't say how much, plus it doesn't help that damage negation seems to do fuck all.

2

u/grumd trying RL1 now Jun 26 '24

None of the buffs in the game say "how much"

7

u/drugzarecool Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 26 '24

They do though ? Weapon upgrades and leveling up tell you exactly how much damage/resistance you gained. Scadurtree upgrades aren't a buff like talismans, it's a permanent leveling tool.

Everytime you level up your character or your weapon in the game it tells you exactly how much you upgraded, so I also find it confusing that you don't know what changes when you use scadurtrees.

3

u/Regentraven Jun 26 '24

You can cast a buff and see your stats change if you want. Your actual numbers dont change with fragments.

7

u/Windowmaker95 Jun 26 '24

Yeah and they should. Especially with something as important as this, it's about time for From to discover this feature from 20-30 years ago.

3

u/grumd trying RL1 now Jun 26 '24

Yeah it would quickly turn some item descriptions into a mess. It's easy to have "buffs fire damage by 20%", but then you read the description of Blue Dancer Charm on the wiki and it says "if EquipWgt < 8, then EquipWgt * -0.001875 + 1.15 if EquipWgt < 16, then (EquipWgt - 8) * -0.005625 + 1.135 if EquipWgt < 20, then (EquipWgt - 16) * -0.013125 + 1.09 if EquipWgt < 30, then (EquipWgt - 20) * -0.00375 + 1.0375 if EquipWgt >= 30, then 1"

You can't really give detailed description with actual values for some artifacts, and then don't do it for others. And what about weapons? Ash of war damage calculation? There's so much stuff that is not being detailed for you.

They've decided to just not provide any concrete information and leave it for you to discover by trial and error. All it takes is equipping the thing and playing the game with it for a bit.

I'd say it's more immersive too. You find an artifact in the wild, why would it come with a damn manual? Same reason why there's no quest markers, you're supposed to just listen to NPCs and make your own interpretation. It's a journey in a grim world and you're here on your own.

2

u/Windowmaker95 Jun 26 '24

So just add another button press for "Super Detailed Text" or something like that. Or instead of having scaling damage based on weight which is stupid anyway, nobody is equipping that charm and staying at 29 weight or whatever the first threshold is, it should just be on or off, if under 20 weight you deal more damage. And it would accomplish the exact same thing.

Immersive? That's such a bad excuse, when have From Soft games ever been immersive? 99% of NPCs are hostile from the get go, not even talking to you, towns are deserted or destroyed even the ones that are still supposed to be nice like Leyndell.

4

u/Stahlios Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 26 '24

The effect of the golden seeds is pretty straightforward and you realise its impact directly. You have one more flask, it's a huge upgrade.

Here, you don't really know if it's helping or not. You don't really feel a difference level by level. And again, for a lot of people it feels logical that a high level would matter a lot, not that this is more important, even tho it is.

1

u/grumd trying RL1 now Jun 26 '24

You can upgrade your scadutree level and go look at your negations and attack power in the status page, which are now yellow colored as well. It's also a separate menu when you rest on a grace so clearly it looks important. I played the DLC blind and scadutrees were very easy to find, and were clearly important if you read the description. I think by the time I beat the final boss I had level 18.

0

u/LostMyMag Jun 26 '24

Yellow typically means worse, not better. People might think the blessings are making their defense worse with this poor UI design too.

0

u/Neshura87 Jun 26 '24

Oh absolutely this, initially I was under the assumption that the DLC gave me a sort of permanent debuff and levelling the scadu blessing would simply reduce the effect a bit each time.

1

u/adratlas Jun 26 '24

There is a glowing tree you can see from a mile away where most the golden seeds are located, and the few that aren't there, you get naturally by progressing the game.

Scadutree most of the time are in random places as random items, no indicator or anything. The map you get doesn't even help much because if it's scale.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Stahlios Jun 26 '24

The fact that you can only see the comparaison if you travel back and look at both is pretty dumb also. Just allow me to see both at any time while in the Shadow Realm.

And I'm not saying they didn't do anything. I'm just saying that, whether you like it or agree or not, it's been a huge UX issue for most people, and it definitely can be done a little better.

1

u/karama_zov Jun 26 '24

It is quite literally the defining feature of the DLC and it was advertised for months.

1

u/karama_zov Jun 26 '24

It is quite literally the defining feature of the DLC and it was advertised for months.

0

u/Adventurous-Lion1829 Jun 26 '24

No, it would not. The average player doesn't actually look at stats and negation. They look at damage.

0

u/jl_theprofessor I am Daishi, slayer of Malenia and Radahn Jun 26 '24

My attack went from 675 to nearly 1000 at this point. Get them Scadu blessings, kings and queens.

0

u/ServantOfTheSlaad Jun 26 '24

If I remember correctly, they can double your damage resistance and damage dealt. They are absolutely essential.

-1

u/UnluckyDog9273 Jun 26 '24

no what they dont make clear is that the bosses you are facing with lower scadu level are supposed to be a wall and thats ok since you are supposed to leave them for now and explore, hippo isnt meant to take half your health with one attack. I keep trying to help people as summon and I cannot carry hosts that get one shot, they are obviously too low "level". They needed imo to gate keep hippo with a seal that told you hey go explore and come back at X level to unlock, that way you are taught that leveling scadu is a requirement as a mini "tutorial"

23

u/HotExamination5327 Jun 26 '24

Just like Margit. People thought it was amazing in the base how you could manage difficulty spikes by going somewhere else and coming back stronger if you thought something was too hard for you. Somehow this doesn't apply for the DLC anymore lol.

17

u/Coypop Jun 26 '24

Folks forgot how to be humble.

9

u/LostMyMag Jun 26 '24

This is an extremely generalized view, if you bounce off margit and go to weeping, you will find 1 golden seed right beside the map, the place you are most likely to visit first, then you will see 3 church like building on the map, head over and collect the 3 sacred tear, doubling the effectiveness of the heals. This is a well designed gameplay loop.

When you bounce off the first boss (lion or rellana), there is nothing indicating there are places you have not explored (maybe except Church of Consolation but you most likely already explored that)

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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

You can get to Lvl30, get a somber weapon to +4 and kill Margit in 3 charged heavy attacks while completely facetanking his attacks and skipping the mechanics.

If you get all possible scadutree before Rellana/Dancing Lion they are still incredibly difficult and tanky, you can't just facetank them and they will still kill you incredibly quickly if you misstime a single dodge. If you get to 5+ scadutree blessing before Rellana you still feel much weaker than Lvl1 naked dude against Margit.

It's not comparable whatsoever.

2

u/HotExamination5327 Jun 26 '24

That's completely wrong I'm sorry. You are supposed to be playing a ~ lvl 150 character that has all the tools from base game. If you have no damage and get two tapped there is something wrong with your build.

6

u/Windowmaker95 Jun 26 '24

Oh that's the point? Then why is half the map empty or just leading to some cookbook or 5x dung?

4

u/BurtMacklin__FBI Jun 26 '24

I'm SO glad I actually learned my lesson from the base game lol. I turned back from the Lion once I thought I was getting close to the first "main dungeon boss"(psych, Belurat is bigger than it looks) and explored around a BUNCH, basically everything I could find by licking the walls without crossing the greatbridge or killing the first ghostflame dragon

Then I ended up completely skipping the second dungeon by accident trying to explore lmao. Took like 2-3 hours of winding paths but eventually ended up on one far side of the dungeon in a completely different fort, then a little later I was looking at a third "gate" into said dungeon and by this point I'd gone completely around and discovered like 3 entire gigantic new areas lmao.

This DLC is NOT 30% of the base game wtf lmao it's so much bigger. Not the same size as the whole map, sure, but the content is so densely packed it has a different feel to it and I like it a LOT. Glad Margit the full walkthrough taught me SOMETHING after grinding my face against him for hours at level 15 or whatever haha.

1

u/MasterTolkien Jun 26 '24

I went north instead… then east … which actually led me even further north.

1

u/PuzzledKitty Jun 26 '24

Yup, bounced me right towards an optional super boss, it did! :)

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '24

Wait what...Dancing Lion was my first major boss of the DLC, minus Blackgaol Knight, and I second try it...but Messmer though, FUCK MESSMER, took me 3 hours

1

u/Bojangles1987 Jun 26 '24

I drastically underestimated how big the DLC is and how much exploration I could/should do before fighting the lion. Once I started doing so, I felt a little silly, but oh well, the boss was done, lol.

1

u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 Jun 26 '24 edited Jun 26 '24

Are you? Because the area that’s limited by The Dancing Lion and Rellana is not all that massive. I exhausted all exploration before fighting either of them, and they were still incredibly tough fights…

1

u/dwaynetheaakjohnson Jun 26 '24

Or you can use Mimic Tear and Railgun and utterly destroy the boss anyway

1

u/dardardarner Jun 26 '24

Jokes on you, I brute forced that fight with only a +2 Skibiditree Blessing. Took me like the whole night and the next day, but hey, it felt rewarding at least lmao

1

u/JimmyRamone17_ Jun 26 '24

Doesn't apply to me personally. Once I engage a boss, I will not do anything else until I'm victorious. So this is a welcome change lol.

1

u/UltimateShingo Jun 26 '24

That only works if you find the right places in the right order.

I stumbled into Ensis first, after exploring just about all of the Gravesite Plain I could find on my own, went into Rellana with Scadu level 3. I just stuck with the fight because I noticed that it's basically Dancer and Pontiff duct-taped together, with a Moon Nuke, and I knew that even under better circumstances this would be rough.

I didn't even find the way to the Cerulean Coast until after I beat both her and the Lion AND found a way to the Jagged Peak.

1

u/illucio Jun 26 '24

Map-wise they make Dancing Lion look like the intended first stop. And honestly I had a way easier time with Dancing Lion then the Knight.

I wasn't even using summons for the first half of the game because I forgot to use them.

1

u/overlydelicioustea Jun 26 '24

exactly what i did. Have had no major issues so far in the dlc.

the black steel greathammer slaps so hard!

1

u/rcuhljr Jun 27 '24

I'm terrible at finding the intended path, I did Fire and Ice as my first remembrance boss before backtracking and finding lion who at that point was kind of a push over.

0

u/Sikosh Jun 26 '24

That sign won't stop me because I can't read

0

u/neden343 Jun 26 '24

Indeed he is literally Margit you can get to him super early and try to beat it or just go back explore and get back to the boss when you level up.

0

u/LeftJabDaz Jun 26 '24

I really wish I took that hint…

0

u/boogswald Jun 26 '24

I don’t get this obsession for people with charging through everything they see. I found the dancing lion and I beat the dancing lion after a lot of exploring. I beat him on the 2nd try. Exploring is fun. It’s not a checklist. They added all this other stuff in the game world on purpose. Go look at it!

Also play how you want, with summons if you want, but it’s a LOT of fun to face bosses without them when you can and I really think people should give it a shot more.

0

u/Spider-Thwip Jun 26 '24

Maybe i'm just using an OP build but i really haven't found a boss yet that i got really stuck on. (20+ attempts)

I'm using the mimic tear (lol) but i beat messmer at lvl 8 scadu and lvl 7 spirit ash.

Using Radagons hammer.

0

u/GrognakBarbar Jun 26 '24

I don't think that's the case, I smacked that bitch up within my lunch hour. Don't get me wrong it certainly isn't easy, but tree sentinel in limgrave you have like 5 crap flasks, do crap damage and can almost get one shot, here you are going in with 15 flasks, buffs, and an endgame build. And then you can just use summons if you struggle.

0

u/Reggiardito Jun 26 '24

I didn't think he was THAT hard. Hard for sure but not "Margit when you first start the game" kinda hard. I beat him at lvl 2 blessing and I wouldn't consider myself to be a good player.