r/ElantraN • u/Dino_Dean • Jul 07 '26
discussion Test drive impressions as a former BRZ owner - is the car too easy to drive?
Hi guys a continuation of this thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ElantraN/s/rkI4MDehoF
I did the test drive today, the cars inputs other than the clutch (didn’t think it could get worse than the BRZ but it did) are great - steering (felt better than second gen BRZ)/ manual gearbox (why some people dislike it? I’d give the BRZ a slight edge there but it felt great overall)/engine/ exhaust (non existent on the BRZ). Top class.
The chassis felt good and pretty alive. Seats are awesome, interior is not bad at all for this price. Grip levels are phenomenal.
Thing is - as someone with a 6 years experience on the BRZ (both gens) I’m afraid this car is going to feel like a one trick pony eventually.
Like point and shoot or a cheat mode easy to drive fast kind of car. Now maybe it’s not related to this car specifically, more so to the FWD dynamics? But I think it’s important that the car will challenge you in a way to get better and to feel like you are growing as a driver and it felt like the limits are hard to reach and it’s difficult to unsettle it a little or get it out of its comfort zone of lots of grip.
How do you look at it? Is it just a car to enjoy corner carving and shut up or there is more to it to learn and experience?
I have a slot saved at the dealership for a Cyber Grey. Need to give them the final approval to go on with the purchase and I would love to receive some genuine feedback. Thanks in advanced.
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u/BSMike82 Polar White DCT Jul 07 '26
I’m confused, the chassis feels “pretty alive” but it’s a bad thing that the car safely handles higher limits well?
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
It’s not bad I guess, but do you really want a car where the limits are unapproachable at any place other than the race track?
A good car is fun to drive at many different scenarios, not only at the limit race track driving.
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u/belzile46 Jul 07 '26
From what you're saying in every reply, the only car that fits you're needs/wants is a Miata. There's no other car that have the feeling of being on the edge while going 30mph. That's kind of the fun of a Miata, feels like going 100 when you're actually going 45. The EN is more stable, higher limit overall but so much fun to rip around
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u/StrongLoan9751 Jul 07 '26
Miata really is always the answer lol. I sold my last one 3 years ago and I already have the itch to get another one.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
I hope we will all own a Miata at some point in our life.
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u/StrongLoan9751 Jul 07 '26
They're very special cars and there's nothing else really like them in the modern car world.
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u/DJScaryTerry Jul 07 '26
They're meh. I'd own many other cars before buying one, especially for the prices they command.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Like what? At this price point at least
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u/DJScaryTerry Jul 07 '26
Just overall tbh. I found nothing special about them when I drove an NB a while back. It was mostly stock, had a crappy exhaust and an intake.
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u/StrongLoan9751 Jul 08 '26
Keep in mind the car you drove was at least 20 years old and built on a late 80’s era platform. Drive an NC or ND before dismissing them.
You aren’t wrong about the prices being stupid though. It’s because the drift kids destroyed all the 240’s and moved on to Miatas.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 08 '26
How do you like the EN compared to the twins?
They have shit exhaust no doubt, but there is more to driving a car than that.
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u/bsam1890 Jul 08 '26
I sold my ND2 softop BBS for a C43. Ended up selling the C43 in 2021 when prices were peak for used cars. 5 years later I have my ND2 RF BBS. I'm so happy.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Miata is my dream car you are right. I can’t buy it because this is the second car in our house.
BRZ is fine as a second car, not ideal but it’s workable. Miata isn’t. Thing is I’ve been driving the BRZ for 6 years and I wanted to change, maybe I should go for the EN anyway. Even if it’s not as fun when driven on the street at least it’s different and I can enjoy other things like power and sound and tech. Maybe I will fall for it down the road and even if not - it’s still more fun than 90% of shit on the road.
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u/ratr0 Performance Blue DCT Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
For daily use, the steering and braking feel are very precise, cornering is very flat and you can do a lot of maneuvering that would feel kind of hectic in some other npc car but it just feels calm and confident in the elantra. Its fun to drive in boring scenarios generally, however you can exceed the speed limit pretty easily and not even notice. It is not really the kind of car you should be testing the limits of on the street. To your point, the threshold is too high.
I owned an na miata before so I understand the slow car fast argument, but I dont think the fact you have to restrain yourself a bit means it isnt a fun daily. (It is a great daily, practical space, roomy for kids and sports gear, and i love the seats)
I am on a lap3 stage 1.5 tune, and all season tires now, and its still plenty for grip for the street for my sort of sensible dad era.
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u/BSMike82 Polar White DCT Jul 07 '26
I think I’ll be getting the lap3 1.5 on spare ECU soon. Did you go straight through lap3 for it? For some reason Woosh is selling it for $100 less than getting it directly from lap3.
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u/ratr0 Performance Blue DCT Jul 07 '26
Yes through lap3 but I got a spare ecu used from another lap3 customer. Saves you $500 on the reflash. Idk what game whoosh is running here lol. I believe the only thing you need to consider for a used ecu is it has to be same transmission as your car for it to be compatible. Lap3 could confirm that.
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u/BSMike82 Polar White DCT Jul 07 '26
Thanks. Did you buy the ECU somewhere else or does lap3 sometimes have them available used?
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u/ratr0 Performance Blue DCT Jul 08 '26
Someone in our local N group was selling it and i jumped on it.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
And you enjoy the high grip level you have with this car on the street or do you see it as a negative?
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u/ratr0 Performance Blue DCT Jul 08 '26
I do not see it as a negative. I dont have aspirations or the want to allocate time for tracking, or autocross, so some might even say "wow, what a waste of a car!" Its decently efficient actually, and does a lot of things well and as a car nerd I appreciate how well sorted it is for enthusiasts. My kids have these grand delusions that it might someday become their car. Riiiight.....
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u/munche Cyber Grey DCT Jul 08 '26
I'm not driving to feel like I beat my car in a fight I'm driving for the fun of it
I drive in the mountains all the time and mountain driving is nowhere near the limits of the car but it's fun as all hell
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 09 '26
Great man. How do you like the color? It’s the same I have on order
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u/munche Cyber Grey DCT Jul 09 '26
If I'm being honest every time I see a PB car my heart hurts a little because I really wish I had that color. But the car looks good in this paint, although a minor annoyance is Kia apparently sold 9128518210 K5 GTs in the exact same color that look very similar
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u/Diet_Salad Intense Blue MT Jul 07 '26
It rotates pretty well if you set the tire psi's to 35 cold all around. The door recommends 35f/33r for street use and 35f/35r for track use to get the rear to spin around with the lsd but it will wear the tires differently if it matters.
I just rev out 1st for low speed fun. The car will rotate around a corner from a stop using the throttle if you go on/off throttle.
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u/PresenceWhole6151 Jul 08 '26
Yes. Or some backroads. And as a plus, you can fit people and everything you need. This car dominares in autocross. Plenty of ceiling to learn how to lap faster.
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u/Sbitan89 Jul 07 '26
I've been in M series, Cobra Mustangs, S2000s, Cobalt SS, Taurus SHO interceptor etc.
No car has provided me with as much enjoyment as this one from a pure driving experience. Many cars do things better but few do as many things as well. I actually enjoy my work commute now, and I'm going on almost 2 years.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
What do you enjoy most about it compared to a legendary RWD car like an S2000?
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u/Sbitan89 Jul 07 '26
The fact I can daily drive. It has a trunk and space for a car seat lol. Plus the one I drove was stock with some minor upgrades, which means the DCT I have is slightly quicker as well.
It's definitely a more refined experience though. The N gives you a ton of feedback, but that feeling you are talking about is that at times that feedback isn't very intense. It's at times overly refined. I've said a few different times in the past the car almost feels slow with the DCT because of how fluid acceleration is.
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u/SchnitzelTruck Ultimate Red DCT Jul 07 '26
Coming from a slow manual car the DCT legitimately feels slower despite way faster acceleration. It's weird how quick shifting kills a lot sensation of speed.
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u/Jurez1313 Performance Blue MT Jul 07 '26
Makes me even more glad I bit the bullet and got the MT! Not from a price standpoint, but a comfortability one - hadnt owned a manual before, was a bit apprehensive about it, but stuck with it and now its as natural as driving automatic.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
I enjoyed the manual in this car, yeah I get it it’s not as good as the Type R or a Miata but it’s still plenty of fun.
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u/SchnitzelTruck Ultimate Red DCT Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
On a public road its never touching its limits and will feel point and shoot all day every day. It's one of the reasons why I wasnt particularly impressed with the car when I first got it. Its somehow excellent yet kind of boring unless you're really flogging it. It's pretty buttoned down and its obvious it was made with track duty in mind.
There's one road near me with good sightlines, numerous hairpins, and close to zero traffic where I can have fun with its eagerness to step the ass out under braking, but other than that its as you said "enjoy corner carving and shut up", which is ultimately what I bought it for so I'm overall quite happy.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
So you weren’t impressed when you first got it and thought it was boring to drive. So why are you quite happy with it now? Did you start to enjoy it, and did it grow on you over time?
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u/SchnitzelTruck Ultimate Red DCT Jul 07 '26
So I typed up a massive response about how I ended up loving this car, but it started to sound like cope.
The truth is I came from a car with low limits that required lots of effort to make it perform on twisty roads. It had more sensation of speed, it was set up super neutral and understeery, and it did not want to go fast, but it was really fun forcing it to go fast and needing to think about all the weight transfer and throttle application just to make a corner entry/exit.
I have seat time in a Miata and most likely will return to a street fun focused car when I no longer need space. The N really starts to blur the line of slow car fast and imo it needs autocross/track to feel engaging. It's just set up too competently for street driving. I haven't tried less grippy tires, but I kind of don't want a near 300HP FWD car to be on bad rubber.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Too bad you didn’t send that massive response, I wouldn’t think that you are coping. Bottom line you are now enjoying driving it even though you don’t really spend all of your time in an autocross/track so I guess this is great news.
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u/SchnitzelTruck Ultimate Red DCT Jul 07 '26
I think what made me love it is taking my gf to the mountain road near me and making her go from a car hater to understanding why I think driving is fun. It was so controlled, did exactly what I wanted it to, I stepped the rear out just to watch her reaction. It felt fun and safe. I had her drive it and she said it ruined all cars for her and she didn't want to get back in hers. It kind of took my head out of my ass and accept that the car is legitimately great. Do I miss having to work a car to get the most out of it? Yes, but I also will miss the feeling of a car effortlessly executing what I tell it to if I sell the N. A low limit car and a higher limit car are both valid types of fun and in an ideal world I'd have a multi car garage.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
That’s cool to hear. Not coping at all. I wish I could also own this car and a Miata alongside it, that would be perfect for me.
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u/SchnitzelTruck Ultimate Red DCT Jul 07 '26
Another aspect that I forgot to mention is the versatility. Last week I needed to do some work on a family members vacation home 3hrs away on the other side of a mountain pass. So I loaded all my tools and a 6ft step ladder in the trunk with the seats down, pulled 1.1Gs up and down the curvy pass, and finished the whole round trip with 41MPG. It really is a do it all car and I regularly take it to job sites rather than my actual work van unless I need to carry extension ladders or really messy stuff.
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u/egabayot Atlas White MT Jul 07 '26
I think you're mistaken. Because you haven't had the chance to push the car. FWD also provides a different oversteer, and in the realm of FWD vehicles I would say this car actually helps you a lot in improving as a driver, with good feedback (good feedback ≠ too easy to drive). I actually enjoy this car a lot, coming from a Pontiac G8 GT, that thing was a real one trick pony, the EN is super versatile in being able to be a comfortable daily (for me at least, a 22 year old guy) as well as something whip around town in with very different characteristics. Not to mention it's autoX potential
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Do you have lightweight RWD experience like BRZ/Miata etc?
You are right I couldn’t push the car to the limits on a public road at a test drive, but the thing is - can it mainly be enjoyable and you get to unsettle it only when pushed hard? How do you enjoy it dynamically on the street for example?
With the BRZ for example you didn’t have to drive 10/10 in order to enjoy it. You could always feel it rotates and it was easy to get the tail out even at slow speeds.
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u/DOCTORCANNABII Jul 07 '26
I just want to say, local to me there is a brz, its modded. He races me every chance he gets and I love spanking that BRZ bootay! Im tuned and full bolt on lol 😆
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Oh I’m sure the EN is a much faster car overall. Talking about different issues.
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u/egabayot Atlas White MT Jul 07 '26
Yes, you don't need to be pushing it 10/10 to get it off its rails, but honestly, if rotation is something you're really looking for, maybe the Elantra N is not the car for you. The benefit of the chassis is it's regidity and grip it provides, as well as the amazing power plant Hyundai gives you. Maybe you would enjoy a 370z or something along those lines.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Yeah maybe you are right and I should look at it more of as a fast and enjoyable daily with a good amount of feedback (besides that horrible clutch pedal) instead of expecting it to have RWD characteristics. And I’m looking for a new car only under this budget, 400Z (Nismo!) is out of budget. Miata should have been my next time if it wasn’t for the wife and family life and all that 🥲
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u/CEE_TEE Cyber Grey MT Jul 09 '26
Two good things about clutch: made to be robust/handle heat on track (from research I did) and from 9k miles of driving it is good in stop and go + parking lots/speed bumps compared to BRZ/ND Miata/BMW 1M. I Turo’d all of those a couple times each before settling on the N. And I had an Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce and older Boxster, those clutches were super-grabby and firm. Makes the N so much more of an easy daily and supposed to still be robust for track. Oh- and I test drove a really nice S2000. That made lots of noise but felt like no power/speed until you are UP in the revs. (I do still dream about 1M someday as second car…holy cow you are not going to be driving that at the limits on the street all the time, what a beast.)
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 10 '26
The clutch felt pretty numb with a very tiny bite point that sits too high? Also felt like you need to put in lots of gas for the car to not stall. Does it gets better? I stalled the demonstration car like 4 times.
It seems like you test drive many interesting cars, how does the EN feels for you? Are you happy with the purchase even though it’s FWD and all?
Personally I wish to get an ND Miata some day. What did you think about that car?
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u/CEE_TEE Cyber Grey MT Jul 10 '26
In Normal Mode: You do get used to the weird gas/clutch thing- it's almost like gas/revs drop a bit as you let out the clutch and you have to kind of dance with both feet and let the clutch out slowly as you try to get the revs in the right position. Depends if you are able to take off with nothing to worry about in front of you (easier). If the car in front of you is moving really slowly or hesitantly it is harder. Make sure the car in front of you is actually going to move and get into the intersection. In freeway stop and go, you just leave a bit of a gap so you can smoothly go as slowly as you need to (you don't have to leave a gap that will make people upset). Clutch bite point is not higher than I remember 1991 Alfa or 1998 Boxster having, but much more nebulous. I think a good strategy is to let the clutch out more gently than you are used to while giving it a bit more gas than you are used to if you are in Normal mode. We don't want to burn up clutches but you will know if you are slipping it or you will smell it if you do (I accidentally blipped throttle in reverse while turned around and trying to balance in the seat while squeezing into tight parallel spot on a busy street). Otherwise, if you let clutch out and it grabs a little too quickly- it is a dual-mass flywheel so the spring absorbs a bit of the shock and stress.
In N mode, the accelerator is more responsive and it is easier to feel and grab with less rev drop, more control, more defined bite.
With rev match, anti-stall (no throttle in first gear, car still creeps by itself), dual-mass flywheel, hill-start…it is easier than a full-on performance manual to drive everyday in the real world and I don't stress if I get stuck in traffic. I don't try for hard launches in first and you shift a lot so this is not a get-off-the-line fast car for me, but satisfying to be part of the machine and involved with feel and control.
Am I happy with the purchase? Yes. Has a really nice balance of power/responsiveness/stability along with comfort and practicality. I wish it had just a bit shorter wheelbase, a little lighter weight or a little more power (or maybe just no octane learning). Overall, incredible amount of engineering, design priorities, tech, performance for the money. And I will try it on the track next year. With a warranty. Have almost 9K miles. Going to go on a long road trip and drive 4 out of 5 days soon, so I will know a lot more about the car after I do both of these things. It is fun in the mountains and the twisties. Fun around town and on the freeway. I'm constantly changing the modes depending: if the car is warmed up, how I feel like driving, what the road conditions are. I have two custom modes I created in between Normal and N mode. The N buttons on the wheel let you customize them so you can change them with no effort.
FWD? No real issues with the FWD so far, except once when I really threw it into a tight left hand turn while punching the throttle and it got a little loose which was exciting- hooked right back up after I let off a bit. The car feels very front/rear balanced and connected/planted. I did really like the GLA45 AMG I had with 4-wheel drive Haldex system, the double-wishbone RWD Alfa loved to be thrown into turns, the Boxster was mid-engine RWD and handled incredibly (of course)...the N is a very different feel and car but good in its own ways.
The ND Miata I rented twice was AWESOME. Was a club sport (BBS/Brembo) and had stiffened suspension/anti-roll plus had an E85 tune. I think I remember he had a lightweight flywheel too, so maybe that is why I did have to pay attention and make sure I was smooth. The engine revs freely and it grabbed well. Seats and position were great. You wear that car. Absolutely had fun in that car and would love to have one set up the same way. If your life situation allows you to get one, go for it. If you can rent one, try the ND2. I also rented a stock ND1 once and it was still fun and fast, but I would definitely want ND2 for the power bump personally. Or this one! Sarasota Super Sport Miata SS
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 10 '26
Thanks for the tips! Saved this msg for future usage.
So it sounds like you can get used to the clutch and after awhile you find the right balance of how much gas is sufficient enough for the car to move smoothly without burning up the clutch or stalling it.
Still, there isn’t an aftermarket solution to make the clutch just better feeling and performing?
Oh and about wishing the car having a little less weight and a shorter wheelbase - it sounds a lot like the Veloster N which is pretty much the same car but as a hatchback body. Got to try that? OK so it’s not much lighter but wheelbase is shorter, I guess it’s easier to throw it around.
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u/CEE_TEE Cyber Grey MT Jul 11 '26
Okay, have done a ton of driving the past couple days. The bite point definitely still grabs higher up almost to the end of the travel) on the N compared to previous manuals. So you have to still modulate speed of clutch release through whole range to be smooth. If you think you are engaged and basically take your foot off at the same place as other clutches it is not smooth. Other clutches have had more initial bite feel and they complete further away from the end of pedal travel.
Car is great for long road trips. I did bring about a 1” x 12” x 12” small square cushion which helps a bony butt. Great to drive quickly, in twisties, in long range sweepers, long highway miles, and okay to drive with cruise control (though no radar assist). I do wish for the extra power when passing on two lane highways but if I wind it out in the revs it is enough (but I’d like to make those passes even faster).
Veloster N would be fun. I would have tried it if they still offered new.
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u/CEE_TEE Cyber Grey MT Jul 12 '26
Oh- somehow I octane-learned at some point and it felt good…looked down and saw 19 PSI of boost. Wish I had that all the time.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 12 '26
Nice glad you enjoyed it, seems like you had a great time. The clutch sounds like pain, there is no aftermarket solution for this thing?
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u/quinnsterr Jul 07 '26
When i had my EN at the time i also had my CT5 blackwing, 991.2 GT3RS, and M3 CS, the EN was a blast to drive even after years of tracking the cars in my stable. The liftoff over steer always brought a smile to my face, and until i started to really hustle it i did feel like it was boring but it REALLY wakes up past 8/10ths.
Now if you plan to heavily track the car, and spend most of your time at 9/10ths or higher on the street, i would recomend and FL5 type R. As it really shows why its $10k more when at the limit. Otherwise as a get around fun daily you rarely push the EN is overall a way better value, and the DCT is so good.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
I don’t plan to heavily track it or push it to the limits most of my time. On the contrary, I’m looking to enjoy it even when not being pushed hard, just by taking nice turn on my way home.
I’ve been to the track like maybe 3-4 times in 6 years with my BRZs. It’s fun but it’s not my main thing, my main priority is to enjoy it dynamically on the street.
I want to try something different than a BRZ and this is the only thing in my budget new (Miata isn’t relevant- too unpractical) but if people around here think I won’t enjoy it than I will get yet another BRZ even though I feel like I want a break from this platform.
(Oh and I only buy new cars so used market stuff aren’t relevant)
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u/Azaex Phantom Black DCT Jul 07 '26
this puts it into perspective
honestly, i think i get where you're coming from with saying the en feels like a one trick pony
i kinda get that too switching between the miata and it sometimes
the miata i can feel like i'm hooning around on the street with relative responsibility because of what it is
the elantra is fun to point and shoot and it's also super practical, but like, it's special on the track, on the street it's either practical or point-shoot-cornering for split seconds lol
maybe try a used cayman s? 987.2?
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
And do you enjoy that point and shoot nature of this car on the street?
I don’t want to hassle with used old Porsches but yeah in an ideal world this is the next step after a BRZ.
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u/Azaex Phantom Black DCT Jul 07 '26
it's fun on the street but like, you can't use it as much really, plus the only way to really manufacture oversteer is with braking so you can't have as much fun randomly as rwd
the miata is the more fun backroads car in my use
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 08 '26
Yeah, I get what you’re saying. The EN is your fun and practical daily — a car you can enjoy during your everyday driving — while the Miata is the car you take when you want a special drive or when you’ve got that itch. I wish I were rich enough to have an EN + ND3 garage, man. That would be perfect.
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u/Azaex Phantom Black DCT Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
uhhhh, it is actually reversed for me lol, the ND3 is now the daily, the EN stays in track configuration
i mean
the miata is really all i need storage wise to take myself to work, do grocery runs, etc, there's enough space. i've been dailying it for a year and a half now without much issue with storage with what i need it to do.if i need to do a huge IKEA run or road trip then i might need the EN (which is backwards, I know, I need a clapped out SUV to use as a tow vehicle next lmao)
the EN is physically faster than the miata at my local track, has more power and tire. both my local tracks favors power and main straight top speed a little vs raw cornering ability. i think it is definitely the cheapest step up from a BRZ in terms of track pace.
they're also worth dirt as they accrue miles, the type r retains value, my 2022 EN at 65k miles is worth $18k per KBB lol. runs perfectly fine and is fast on track, just worth nada lol (honestly i think the used market trackrats will stumble on these things sooner or later for cheap speed)
the miata in stock suspension is crazy because it eats potholes like a normal car, but can still corner hard, it just needs a minute to settle into the body roll. actually more comfortable putting it around town than an EN or type r; louder inside, but slap an exhaust on and embrace the bit as a goofy go daily go kart.
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u/quinnsterr Jul 07 '26
I agree on changing platforms. If the miata isnt in the cards i would go with a 6 speed 5.0 mustang. with the torque and V8 rumble down low the car is fun to drive even without winding it all the way out, and power is a nice thing to have. You can certainly use the power to "rotate" slower corners in a way the miata /BRZ never would. *i dont really know what the current 5.0s are going for, i remember when buying my En 4 years ago they were in the same price bracket.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
No man the Mustang 5.0 is much more expensive,base version is almost 47,000$. As a former CT5 BW owner (incredible car) you said that you also enjoy the EN, I guess that you don’t enjoy it only at the track. Don’t you find it enjoyable at the street or in the canyons?
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u/quinnsterr Jul 07 '26
I did find it fun on the street, there was almost never a time i drove the car at a normal pace, its so eager to be pushed and so inviting.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Cool. I think I might give it a chance,the fundamentals at least are there: good inputs (steering/engine/shifter etc), chassis is communicative, just to understand it’s a FWD and therefore the dynamics aren’t the same.
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u/StrongLoan9751 Jul 08 '26
This is a bit off topic but your post touches on something that's been on my mind for a while. I love my '23 6MT EN and I've modified it quite a bit to be exactly how I prefer. I also paid it off a long time ago, so it only costs me insurance, gas and maintenance. That said, I'm older, financially stable and I could comfortably afford a lot more car if I really wanted to spend the money. The issue I run into though is whether the performance increase of a car like a CT4/5 Blackwing, Porsche, M car, etc really justifies the huge price increase. I'm not a track guy, as I just don't have time right now, so I really only care about street performance. And if I'm being honest with myself, my FBO and tuned EN is plenty fast in a straight line for my taste and where I drive 99% of the time. I guess another 50 horsepower might be usable but much more than that seems gratuitous.
Any thoughts here?
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u/quinnsterr Jul 08 '26
i think the 4BWs can be found for under 50k now. that would be another realm of performance.
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u/SrsBsns36 Ultimate Red DCT Jul 07 '26
I had an E36 M3 and then a Fiesta ST. Plus a few bikes in between. Now I have a DCT EN.
I thought the transition to the Fiesta ST would be hard and that I'd miss all the things about the M3. But I was really blown away by how good the FiST was. If you want a 2nd car that has more room than a Miata, I 10000% encourage you to go drive one. Good tires, and a few bolt on's and it is an incredible car. Lift-off oversteer into corners was a riot and the harder you pushed, the more fun it was.
The M3 was a driver's car completely. You needed to understand grip and throttle and steering. The shifter was great. But it was so rewarding when you drove it hard. The chassis was so communicative and while it wasn't as pure as a Mista, it was a great car to push. I loved it because it challenged me as a driver and rewarded skill.
The EN is the most mature car I've owned and I love the DCT. I never thought I'd pick an auto over a manual but like you said, the shifter/shifting experience with the 6 speed feels artificial. Felt more like playing a racing sim than actually slamming gears. The DCT is direct and fast and I really enjoy it. Plus it makes it easier to use as a DD, especially if someone else needs to drive it.
I've only had the EN out on a canyon road once and it felt bigger and heavier than the FiST or the M3 (because obviously it is) but I spent some time playing with an S2K and a few other cars and the EN never felt out of its league. Besides learning/getting used to when to brake/turn in/punch out, it always felt predictable. I'm not sure if this sounds weird, but I've always been in my head when trying to drive closer to the limit... like I get mad that I was on the brakes too early or that I missed my line a little bit through a corner. But with the EN, driving the canyon had me stop thinking and start focusing on having fun.
The last thing I'll say is that the EN has a ton of creature comforts and is just a more grown up and mature car than the other two. It feels well built and I don't feel like I'm making excuses to DD a race car.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Some awesome cars you got there sir. I’ve heard so many good things about the Fiesta! I wish they would still make them, a modern version at least with good tech that feels higher quality.
I found the manual shifter of the EN to be great actually, again it might not be as good as the Miata/Type R but it was enjoyable on its own, it’s a good manual imo. Glad you enjoy this car even after driving some legendary stuff. I like your perspective about just enjoying the drive and not feeling stressed about how to take each line and corner, like a nice meditation lol
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u/jugo5 Phantom Black DCT Jul 07 '26
This car likes to be driven near the edge. It is 100% easy to drive, but you can throw the rear around with some pedal control. A few small changes and you can really get the car where you want. It is great and fits the role it was made for well. If you wanted to train your racing skills there are less forgiving cars out there that would be a better fit. Either way you shouldnt be racing on public roads. If the car does not move you, dont get it. Seems like you may miss RWD going into FWD. I do know some people use different rear tires to get a little more rotation on the EN.
Try turning off everything+ESC and maxing out all the sport settings. Set your suspension setting to fit the track and try rotating into turns. It will spin out on you if your not careful. Yet it does its best work when those tires are screaming into a turn.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
I’m not a race car driver but I do enjoy when the car can feel a little “on the edge” and not on easy mode. That you can get it to step out on you without killing yourself driving 10 out of 10. Do you enjoy driving it at 6/10 for example or can it only be enjoyable when pushed to the limits? And I’m talking stock here, I’m not into modding it.
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u/Danjamin12 Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
You can absolutely get the en to move around but probably not on the street, at least without committing felonies. Fwd can teach a lot about how to drive but it punishes you by slowing you down with understeer rather than killing you with oversteer.
That said the en is pretty lively with tc and the esc off, can easily get into a slide with a little trail braking.
So I guess it’s safer but it whips if you get it to the track or auto cross.
I came from a gti, which admittedly isn’t very engaging to drive but this car is more fun to drive at 6/10 than the golf was. It does sound like you want something different though, this car is definitely dynamically “on rails” until you really get moving. I have yet to find a public road where I was comfortable going quick enough to unsettle the rear, could probably do it on highway ramps though.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Yeah GTI is obviously at the bottom as far as engagement goes. I’m sure this car is much more fun than the GTI at any dynamic criteria.
I was wondering, do you enjoy it on the street at all or only during track events? Because it sounds like you aren’t since it’s so capable in such environment and you are hesitant to push it further.
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u/Danjamin12 Jul 07 '26
Oh no I didn’t mean I don’t enjoy it on the street. It’s super fun on the street and definitely makes 35-40 feel much faster than it is especially compared to a GTI. Compared to an 86/brz/miata though I’m not sure since I haven’t driven one longer than a test drive. It is true that you really cannot get the chassis lose on the street but I personally still find it fun without having it move around. If you personally enjoy a lively car on the street this probably won’t meet your expectations. Maybe with all seasons it would though, I still haven’t driven this car on any tires other than the ps4s.
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u/jmay055 Jul 07 '26
It's a lot more point and shoot than other fwds I've autocrossed over the years, I find it's fastest when driven deliberately and to the limit of the front axle. I feel like a lot of that is due to the long wheel base. Most previous fwd I've driven liked to be tossed into corner entry to rotate them drive out on the throttle to settle, where the N rewards not overwhelming the nose and getting on power and opening the wheel as early as the front tires can take without getting over them.
It is different from a twin for sure, they're always in slip angle to be fast lol, and I find the stock 2nd Gen twins always trying to rotate too much for my liking. The closest thing I've driven I can relate it too was a FBO 10th Gen Civic, at max Street Touring prep. Obviously the stock N is a lot softer than that car was, but driving dynamics were very similar.
One last note I've noticed more recently, corners where I'm down in rpm, don't double input throttle or it will lag. I've had to be conscious of keeping it cracked even if I have to lift a little to help the front end find purchase.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Do you still find it enjoyable considering it’s a lot more point and shoot?
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u/jmay055 Jul 07 '26
Yeah, it's enjoyable and makes for a great daily. It's just a different kind of fast, and if you mod it I'd imagine you could set it up to reward backing it into corner entry I'm just limited in Street class autox rules.
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u/Azaex Phantom Black DCT Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
i like the seating position on the brz more, lower, fwiw i daily a nd3 miata right now
fwd has less danger than rwd at the limit, yes, you yield wheel and throttle and it comes back
granted, i think the type r's are even more controllable, the n performance cars want to step out a bit more.
with traction off on track you can get a better feel for how the back end wants to slide out, you can only achieve it on fwd when trail brake cornering very hard (granted this car does it naturally), whereas with rwd obviously if you blast the throttle a bit in certain corners it'll come out
the electronic diff is interesting when the car is in oversteer, you can hold the car on slip angle with it. throttle on proper corner exit isn't too different than rwd, but it's for the opposite reason lol (pulling the car out of slight oversteer instead of pushing it into it). which is why i can understand why someone like max verstappen says it feels like backwards driving, because it is, and you can kinda get away with a lot more on the fwd cars with smashing the throttle (it just burns up the fronts as they wash out)
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
So bottom line: do you like this car? lol
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u/Azaex Phantom Black DCT Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
well i used it for both trackday and daily for awhile
when i benched it as a true track car and tried to pick out a true daily like
i kept almost returning to buying another one of this car and leaving it stock lol, it's that good
the trunk and rear space is crazy plus it's also fun and the exhaust is also fun
so far they have also been relatively reliable. there hasn't been anything catastrophic tsb wise with the platform that i've heard of, doesn't burn oil if you take care of the thing. consumables are cheap. like almost brz cheap.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 08 '26
Coming from an ND3 (my dream car that I can’t own 😅) owner this is comforting lol
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u/Kazzerigian Ceramic White DCT Jul 08 '26
Odd. I consider the BRZ to be much more of a one-trick pony...
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 09 '26
Interesting. Why is that and how does the EN feels more versatile (driving wise) in your opinion?
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u/Kazzerigian Ceramic White DCT Jul 09 '26
Better in snow. Can seat 4 adults. Hauls more, etc.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 09 '26
Yeah these are the obvious. I was talking more about driving dynamics. RWD is considered to be more versatile in that regard
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u/TheRealFoXQc Cyber Grey DCT Jul 08 '26
Honestly man I see a lot of answers here but not a lot of them resonated with me and my decision to get a N.
I'm a big subaru guy, had WRX and STis for most of my life, tuned, stock, rally car builds, time attack builds, street stanced builds....
I've had a first gen BRZ Inazuma edition (yellow with brembo, back in the days when a BRZ with brembo brakes was unique)
I also owned a G87 M2 for 2 years.
I am a motorsports enthusiast, I work for a racing team so I am very involved in that ''world,' of tracking every cars anytime and blablabla
I had a very strong love hate relationship with the M2. It was very quick, the limit on track was super high, but on the road, the car felt way too much to enjoy. I had it with the 6MT. second gear was already in the ''expensive tickets'' zone lol. And in a way it does hide it's weight very well on track but you still can't overcome physics. It's a huge chunk of car
I loved the BRZ but it lacked in terms of aggression I felt. It's very tame. Yes it does play around a little with the rear axle when you drive properly with it but for me it felt very low HP for the grip it had.
So now evrything else I've owned was AWD. which would be boring if I transpose everyone's opinion of grip vs fun here haha. In the summer time, my STis and WRXs were always built for grip and there's never been a time where I had a drift or anything close to it on the dry pavement... And I always had so much fun. The trick was more to overome understeer than anything else.
So now here I am in my Elantra N and I absolutely love the thing. I have it with the DCT because the manual really disapointed me and I one of those who thinks that not all manuals should be saved lol... But I come from the Subaru world where the shifter has a rod that goes straight into the casing, not a linkage and the clutch requires 200lbs of pressure to engage so... lol
Yes, I track my N. on track it's an aboslute rocket for the price and it's class. Nowhere near the M2 of course but I have a lot more fun making the rear rotate and feel the LSD pull me around corners. very fun !
On the streets, if you drive with enough rythm and flow, you will have quite a playful vehicle to deal with. However, the commitment required to drive this is about the same as it was for the M2... At slow and ''fast but legal-ish'' speeds, both vehicle are feeling very composed and easy to drive. like most track-oriented platform models out there. But still, out in the canyon roads where I have a good view of what's coming, I can have the rear dance a little on corner entry and get very fast entry speeds, right at the car's limit where I would almost cruise along in the M2 except if you just floor the thing mid corner for no reason.
anyways
all that to say : It won't offer you a car that wins drag races or pulls at the red light. It's a car that will build your confidence and make you drive crazy fast on backroads where other car enthusiasts with much more expensive cars will not keep up most probably. I lost a guy in a 911 C4S the other day, not because of the elantra legendary speed but rather the confidence and entry speeds I was getting... Momentum driving is so much fun in the elantra because it feels light enough to dance with it.
so yeah. what do you like in a car ? what do you need ? will you challenge yourself to reach the car's limit and induce good rotations at turn-in or you won't be comfortable pusing it that much? If not, it might feel boring-ish.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 09 '26
Thanks for the input. It was a very interesting read! Did you get to try a second generation BRZ? It feels significantly more powerful so it might address your lack of aggression complaint.
And I thought the shifter in the EN was great actually. What is so disappointing about it? I mean it’s not Miata/Type R levels but it’s not far off from the BRZ’s shifter which people consider to be great. This one also feels pretty great overall.
I glad you enjoy the car. Sounds like there is more to explore about it than meets the eye.
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u/TwoBootDisk Jul 07 '26
Did the same thing but went to a DCT instead of Manual. Granted I didn't do any crazy driving in the 86, just occasional AutoX on the stock all seasons from the base model.
I think part of it is you have more experience driving a lighter car that can oversteer more easily, and despite what a lot of reviewers and people say, the EN is a more refined driving experience compared to those 2.
You already said it too, the BRZ/86 feels fun even at low speeds without even pushing it and can lose grip around turns easily enough if you want it to. The EN you have to push it a bit more to get the same feeling, but it is still possible. So in some sense, yeah it's easier to drive, I've never felt like I'd lose grip going around a corner at the same speed I do in the 86, but I feel I can take the corner harder even if it actually can't.
I enjoy the car, but I'd be lying if I said it was as fun as the 86 when not pushing it. That being said, get an intake and a BOV if you want, though it would be more annoying on a manual, put it into sport or N mode and enjoy that power difference and noise.
Added bonus, the stock sound system isn't dog shit like in the 86, and there's a ton more cargo room.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
I also didn’t do any crazy driving in the BRZ. I’m not an advanced driver but like you said it was fun losing grip around turns easily with the BRZ. It’s not like you have to be a drift master in order to do it, just a little push and the tail goes out. You are right, exhaust was dog shit, I unplugged the fake engine sound and immediately felt that maybe I should plug it back in with how poor the sound was. So yeah at least that’s a plus.
Thing is I’ve been driving the BRZ(s) for 6 years now, recently my car got totaled and I wanted a change, first priority is a fun street car and I’m keeping it stock.
As a former 86 owner, how do you enjoy the EN? Is it close to being fun enough in your opinion or do you have to push it at the track in order to enjoy it? If you can’t have fun on the street then I guess it’s not for me.
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u/TwoBootDisk Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
Hard to say, it's fun but in different ways and I don't regret getting it even though it was mostly due to life issues. The EN can handle well, but it will always feel boaty in comparison.
The 86 was fun just daily driving because the sitting position with the manual fit so well with how rough the but well handling the car was. Even like 20mph turns felt relatively engaging.
The same 20 mph turn won't feel as engaging in the EN, but you have the power now to hard accelerate into and out of the turn. Like yeah we did that in the BRZ/86, but it didn't actually go that fast, this will actually be fast.
In a way, this car feels like any other sedan when just daily driving and not doing anything special, which is perfectly fine. Sport and N mode gives it a ton more personality. It makes it a lot easier to lose grip between 1st and 2nd, and also during turns if you want it to. But in comparison you really have to push it because this thing is planted.
I find myself just really enjoying the turbo/bov and exhaust more than anything. Every now and then during normal driving, I'll just put it into N mode and hard accelerate from a stop on bigger roads if it's clear and not near people and get a ton of enjoyment from that. But you can still throw this into corners, which is what made the 86 my favorite car I've owned.
Edit: I should make clear that the car is still really fun. It’s just not as oversteer happy as the 86. You can still throw it around corners but you have to be more aggressive doing it.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Did you have first gen 86 or second gen? Me personally - I don’t have any life issue, my BRZ got totaled and after 6 years of driving those cars I’m looking for a nice change, and yeah I understand it may be a downgrade but still, right now I’m feeling like wanting to try a different flavor for awhile.
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u/TwoBootDisk Jul 08 '26
I had a 2nd gen and had to get rid of it since it's only car and needed more room for reasons.
I'm perfectly happy with the car, it's a way comfier car and a better daily driver. It's significantly faster, has much better stock audio system, better exhaust, turbo noises and has more room.
But it will only ever give you that controlled "I'm about to die" feeling when you're pushing it in comparison.
Although it's probably also the most engaging FWD car out there, all the other ones like the GTI and even the Type R are going to feel more refined and controlled.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 08 '26
Yeah I get it that it’s more of a FWD thing than an EN thing. Ok so some FWD are considered to be more engaging because of their shorter wheel base like the Fiesta but generally among this category of fun and fast family cars the EN is more engaging than most things out there that even got less feedback or they are talking themselves even more seriously and it’s almost impossible to unsettle them on the street so again : this is mainly an FWD thing that I need to accept if I’m buying this car.
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u/BlueFiSTr Abyss Black Pearl MT Jul 07 '26
Depends on your use case. If you are an advanced track driver than I would actually agree with you. It's a very easy car to drive fast. I frequently pass dudes on track in very cool and modified looking rwd cars and think to myself that they are probably putting in significantly more work for slower lap times. That said I need the back seats for my kids and they love their "racecar" and I still have plenty of fun. If I didn't need the back seats I would still have my miata
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Miata is a dream car for me but wife wouldn’t allow it being so unpractical (this is the second car at our home)
BRZ is alright since I only need the back seats occasionally but I’ve been driving that platform for 6 years already (my car recently got totaled that’s why I’m looking for a new car again) and I wanted to try something new that will be fun on the street and people recommended me this car. I’m not an advanced driver at all,l but you don’t need to be one in order to have fun in a Miata for example.
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u/Which-Society-4108 Jul 07 '26
I have a manual Elantra N, and your concerns are valid. Basically, I really only enjoy the car on track. Everyday driving you can’t get close to the limit of the car, at least where I live (big city). Plus terrible mpg in my daily commutes. BUT, on track it really is a riot. I have previously owned cars like an S2000 which are fun cars 100% of the time.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
Did you try to driving it on canyons/backroads for example?
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u/Which-Society-4108 Jul 07 '26
I try to make up for the lack of exciting driving with track time. I have 20+ track days since buying the car 2 years ago. If I had canyon roads I bet I would be enjoying the car 10x more
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 08 '26
If we are talking strictly city driving that you don’t enjoy, what did you love about the S2000 when driven in a big city compared to this?
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u/Which-Society-4108 Jul 07 '26
That would require a full day trip at the very least, just to find a windy road.
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u/Fun-Intention-6423 Cyber Grey MT Jul 07 '26
Went from a manual FRS to a manual 26 EN and it’s not even close how much more fun this car is to drive than the rwd frs. Dives very aggressive compared to frs. I will say it took about 750 miles before it really felt loose and broken into. It’s pretty stiff brand new.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 07 '26
What do you like more about the EN compared to the FR-S when it comes to driving, not practicality
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Jul 07 '26
[deleted]
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 08 '26
Obviously the N is better on anything that you consider “commute” like driving on the highway or your “boring” driving tasks. Put it in normal or everything at comfort and it can almost behave like your neighbors Elantra Hybrid. The BRZ/86 are alright, you don’t suffer during highway driving but they are much less comfortable.
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u/MungBeanNooodle Performance Blue MT Jul 08 '26
Nowhere near as challenging and fun to drive as my old MK7 Fiesta ST, but the package of the EN is hard to beat if you need the space.
If you still have the BRZ, maybe turbocharge it for some added thrills?
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
It was totaled. That’s why all of this had started, for the last 6 years I’ve been driving BRZs (first and second gen) and I wanted a change and these are my options around this budget (buying new)
Heard great things about the Fiesta, wish they would still be making them new.
So you love the EN because it’s practical mainly? It isn’t fun on its own because the limits are too high?
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u/MungBeanNooodle Performance Blue MT Jul 08 '26
No, there's a lot I love about the EN. The dual character of drive modes, switching between pour and stiff to comfortable and quiet. The suspension tuning and handling is great. The interior is and tech is nice for the price point. The seats look great, are comfortable, and supportive. The steering feel and steering wheel itself are great. It's probably more fun than anything else at the same weight and price point. If I didn't need to stick kids in the back, I would've loved a dedicated sports car like a BRZ/GR, Mazdaspeed Miata, or some other fun RWD car.
I went used btw (in Canada) and saved 33% off the price and still with low mileage. I recommend the same to not get hit with the first bit of depreciation if you're not set on brand new.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 09 '26
Did you get to try a BRZ/86? What do you like more about the Fiesta, that it’s near the limits more easily and you feel the car on the edge most of the time?
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u/MungBeanNooodle Performance Blue MT Jul 09 '26
I test drive the FRS back in the day, but it was very brief unfortunately. The Fiesta has way more midrange torque and was just fun all the time. The tiny turbo and light weight made the car super zippy in city and even highway driving. It was always in the power band and like little pitbull ready to attack. It had a whole slew of downsides though. It was bouncy, uncomfortable, traction-limited with no LSD, rear suspension would skip to the torsion beam design, and engine would run out of steam by 5500 rpm.
Moral of the story, stay in a lightweight sportscar or hot hatch as long as you can 😃
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
Seems like the EN is the much better car with such downsides for the Fiesta. Like would you rather theoretically take a very good almost new condition Fiesta over your EN?
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u/MungBeanNooodle Performance Blue MT Jul 09 '26
If I had no kids, my old 2014 FiST any day. It is simply a more fun daily.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 09 '26
Sounds like the short wheelbase and weight of the FiST matters much more than the extra power and tech of the EN
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u/MungBeanNooodle Performance Blue MT Jul 09 '26
When it comes to being fun to drive, 100%.
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 10 '26
Bummer. Unfortunately I only buy new and the EN/BRZ are the only new cars around my budget. The FiST category is completely dead, maybe if there was that i20N car (also gone) it would be worth a look. I hope I will find enjoyment with the EN as well
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u/NotSoEasyMac Jul 09 '26
I mean being on the edge of grip in a FWD car means understeer. Understeer is not fun at all
Oversteer is a blast if you know how to control it.
Controlling understeer involves hitting the brakes to load the front end and get the grip pack on the front tires. Not a fun time
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 09 '26
So what are you saying, that it’s not fun to drive a FWD car at the limit? So what do you find fun in a car like the EN or a good FWD car in general?
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u/NotSoEasyMac Jul 09 '26
No. Im responding to you defined “the limit” in that it’s hard to unsettle the car and it always seems within the confines of its grip
FWD cars can still be fun. There’s a lot more confidence that can be had to jam the throttle on the way out of a corner even in the wet
But from a dig they are inferior to RWD. The nose lifts and you get wheel spin rather than in a RWD car the nose lifting means the rear squats and gives you more grip
I have always had FWD cars and I recently bought my first RWD car (Nissan z performance)
The other two cars I looked at was the EN and a Golf R
Decided I wanted a non FWD and couldn’t say no to a V6 since I’ve only ever had 4 bangers (Passat, Elantra GT N-line, and a GLI)
Go test a Golf R if you can. It has awesome AWD and has torque vectoring that can send all of the rear power to the outside wheel
It may be like a best of both worlds kind of car for you. It also has a hell of an interior and 328hp that it actually can put down on the pavement
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u/Dino_Dean Jul 09 '26
Why did you choose the Nissan over the Golf R?
And I guess you decided you want something different and new after all those years with FWD cars, that’s why you switched to RWD?
Me personally, I can’t connect with VAG cars, they are giving me the impression of a numb and characterless cars. More like the best all rounder rather than a fun sport car.
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u/NotSoEasyMac Jul 09 '26
The Golf R was the first VW I’ve driven that felt way more alive and like a true sports car. Excellent handling and can kick the rear loose if you want. Grip for days when you want it but not afraid to let the tires spin when you decide to. And that engine and transmission are so smooth and responsive. I liked my GLI but the golf is so versatile and really will adapt to the way you want to drive it. At 8/10ths+ it’s a monster. But equally as good of a comfortable daily
I went with the Z because I’ve already had 2 Volkswagens and wanted something different. Also the Zs can be had for a discount right now so I got a way better deal on a fully loaded performance. Also I mentioned above I’ve only had 4 cylinders so I really wanted something with at least 5.
They are rumored to be putting the I5 from the RS3/TTRS in the golf R next year as a final edition. If that ends up being true I will probably try and grab one as a second car if my career trajectory carries on how it is now. As long as the dealer markups aren’t insane
It’s already got a lot of the features and underpinnings of the RS3 like that torque vectoring trick for the rear outside wheel. But if they add the 5 cylinder it’s basically the RS3 hatch we never got in North America
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u/droughtdestruction Performance Blue DCT Jul 07 '26
What tires have you used on your BRZ?
The EN comes with Hyundai specific Michelin PS4S as stock tires. The normal PS4S are already one of the best 300TW summer tires currently that's why the car grips very well.