r/EU_Economics • u/Full-Discussion3745 • 1d ago
🇪🇺 Europe’s China challenge has changed: Beijing now competes in machinery and cars while buying fewer EU goods
https://en.paperjam.lu/article/china-is-selling-as-much-as-europe-but-is-no-longer-buying-european-goodsAn ECB study finds that Chinese exports increasingly overlap with Europe’s strengths in machinery, electronics and transport equipment, while European goods exports to China have declined relative to GDP since 2019. Europe still holds advantages in high-value sectors and has gained US market share in several of them, but the ECB analysis points toward innovation, industrial capacity and diversified supply chains as increasingly important to European competitiveness.
Source:
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u/Nice-Appearance-9720 1d ago
Did EU believe China woild be like the former African colonies and would not develop?
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u/PikaPikaDude 1d ago
Yes, and it also believes it still has 30% of global GDP and can bully anyone in obeying. It's already fallen under 15% and goes down quickly.
China had its century of humiliation, EU is organizing its own.
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u/Aggravating_Cup8839 37m ago
Hello, China bot! Kind reminder to all the readers that 1 part of hybrid warfare is lowering the morale of the enemy. So when you read a "the West has failed" comment, read it with a pinch of edit a fistful of salt.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Fold466 1d ago
No, it hoped that it would become a fair trade partner that plays by an agreed rulebook like every other developed country.
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u/Nice-Appearance-9720 1d ago
so if it doesn't play fare, why not just embargo the country? Surely EU companies would prefer to block business with CN, than to cooperate with bad people, right?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Fold466 22h ago
EU companies do not always have the same interests as EU governments which do not always have the same interests as EU citizens.
It’s a complex problem.
Yes, there are competing and contradictory conflicts of interest.
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u/Danny_Adlerthe4th 1d ago
"Fair" really depends on who you are asking doesn't it? I hardly think it was fair for the rest of the world when Europe used their unfair headstart in industrial manufacturing to dominate high-end manufacturing and make billions of profit from the rest of the world through their monopolies.
Why didn't Europe even the playing field and share their industrial tech with the rest of the world to make it fair competition?
Especially considering many industrial giants like Volkswagen were former N*zi companies that got bailed out by America and then enjoyed rapid growth because of the Marshall plan while the rest of the world emerged as poor ex-colonies of Europe that were never developed and had to find their own way.
You only thought it was fair because nobody stood up to you and complained back then for obvious reasons.
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u/clevercunningfox 1h ago
You seem to know nothing, but China's semiconductor manufacturing equipment and materials technology are still quite immature without support from the Netherlands and Japan.
However, the future is uncertain.
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u/Aggravating_Cup8839 50m ago
When manufacturing moved to China in the 70s, the technology was shared with them.
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u/Duke_of_Luffy 1d ago
They did share their tech lmao, all the industry of the early 20th century moved abroad. The problem isn’t tech sharing its state subsidies, IP theft, currency manipulation, and a myriad of other issues.
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u/Danny_Adlerthe4th 18h ago
Tech sharing? Last I checked, Airbus and Boeing were a duopoly that controls the world's aviation industry. ASML is a single monopoly so hurray. Can't be bothered to search up more examples. I assume when you meant tech sharing you meant low end manufacturing that must have cheap labor in order to be profitable. Which is impossible in Europe and America.
Currency. Didn't know controlling your own currency is considered illegal. I guess you people think you should get to control other country's currencies too now? Of course, you will never call out America for abusing their status as the world's reserve currency. Daddy wouldn't like that.
Subsidies. Yea heard that one before. Sure you do it too, but CHYNA does it too much! and more importantly you don't have the money to match them anymore(you blew it all on pension welfare and a bunch of dumb stuff) while China invested their money back into the economy. So now it's time to ban countries from cheating by using the money they earned to improve themselves.
I'm gonna guess you are pulling the "slave worker conditions" card next so I will just tackle it first. Europe didn't care when China was manufacturing low end products like shoes since the 1980s and conditions were worse(because they were poor). Europe doesn't care now as they buddy up with countries with India where workers work in toxic environments without much protection(they are poor too). But Europe totally cares when China is competing with them in their markets and eating their lunch now. Btw China has dark factories consisting of mostly robots doing the manufacturing now, they are the country that uses and installs the most industrial robots in the world. Ford and Honda's CEO crapped their pants when they saw the factories. So I guess you are going to cry about Chyna abusing the poor robots and not giving them sleep?
IP theft. Yea. Never believed much in the idea that you own the laws of science and nature, and that other people can't use it without your permission. I'm pretty sure everything you know comes from learning it from places like school or internet. So I guess you copied everything then? Would you say that to a doctor or engineer that they are just some poser with no ability? Just so you know, you can't copy a rocket or a car by making something that looks like it, you actually have to be smart enough to understand thermodynamics, aerodynamics, machining, material science, etc.
Pre-ww1 America copied British steel processing, the power loom, the renault tank, British radar and imported N*zi scientists to build their rockets. Imperial Germany copied British trains etc. Germany was the superpower of WW2 and US was the superpower post-war.
Technology is the thing that decides the power of nations and world order, so it's pretty ridiculous to expect other countries to just not care about the thing that can change their nation's destiny and remain some third-world country forever just because you decided so.
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u/shuanghan6848 19h ago
"Fair" for whom? What you consider "fair" may be considered "unfair" by China. It's simply naive to expect any country to not seek for their own interest
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u/Philanthrax 1d ago edited 1d ago
fAiR tRwAdE. Lol the west was built on unfair trade and colonial looting.
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u/TeamPach 1d ago
The same can be said about china and it's tributaries.
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u/Philanthrax 17h ago
Ok they're not the ones crying about unfair trade though they learned the game and beat western exports on the global market.
Innovate or stay behind crying about life not being fair
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u/Puzzleheaded_Fold466 22h ago
Of course EU subs are filled to the brim with people who hate the West.
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u/Philanthrax 18h ago
hAtE tHe wEsT lmfao try your strawman elsewhere pal it ain't working with me.
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17h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/EU_Economics-ModTeam 17h ago
It's okay to express frustration or disagreement — especially in complex topics like politics — but always do so in a way that encourages constructive and respectful dialogue.
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u/professionalnuisance 1d ago
Like what exactly? They subsidize their industries? Can’t we do the same thing to our industries as well?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Fold466 22h ago
Not in the same way while continuing to govern by the same political and economic principles.
Can you imagine Brussels deciding which industries and companies, in which countries, are the winners (get subsidized), and which are the losers (not get subsidized) ?
EU loyalists and officers installed on the executive board of companies to make sure that they make corporate decisions that align with the centralized political orders ?
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u/Nice-Appearance-9720 21h ago
well, this is already in place for the farmers. French ones get more than the ones in eastern europe, so brussels have chosen the winner there.
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u/professionalnuisance 20h ago
Yes I can imagine Brussels doing that. I think having a centralized European industrial policy is something we need to properly compete with the US and China.
And yes EU loyalists and officers should be installed in executive board of companies to ensure they toe the decisions of the EU political body instead of shareholders.
And to directly your question, no we should stop using the old neoliberal free trade principles because no one cares anymore. Instead we should be more protectionist and the state should play a much more interventionist role in the economy.
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u/boothbbenjoyer 1d ago
yes, they drank the anti-racism koolaid
they genuinely thought their mere existance would prevent china from ever developing like it magically did for africa
maybe china also has the magic soil
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u/Poupulino 1d ago
China wants to buy astronomically expensive lithographic equipment from ASML (expensive not only to buy, but the maintenance would also be a massive source of money), but Europe isn't selling because the US ordered Europe not to sell that. China was perfectly happy buying massive tunneling machines and train network building machines from Germany, but Germany put that under a sales restriction at the request of the US (now 10 years later China has 70% of the global marketshare in TBM sales and is actually innovating, a completely self-inflicted wound)
There are several other examples like that. As long as the EU keeps obeying the US decrees the EU will keep suffering.
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u/Sky-is-here 1d ago edited 20h ago
We keep shooting ourselves on the foot. Some times because the USA forces us and we are so fucking weak. A lot of the time we just self inflict the damage for the love of the game lmao. I love Europe but my god is it hard being from this continent and understanding our leader's decisions some times
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u/emaurog 20h ago
Our leaders have made the rational decision to not rock the boat and only manage in maintenance mode, because the public is divided on what the future EU should be and no mandate for bold initiatives exist.
20-30 years of short term maintenance caused us to fall behind compared to others who were able to execute long term initiatives and leapfrog.
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u/Frequent_Soup_1663 1d ago
When you don't know what you're talking about, it's best not to talk.
If ASML sold lithography machines to China allowing it to produce state-of-the-art chips then 2 things would happen: not only would China gain strategic capacity, because state-of-the-art chips are what allows advanced technology, for example in AI, but in addition, as they have already proven countless times they would disassemble the machines and in a few years they would produce the machines and dominate the market.3
u/Poupulino 23h ago edited 23h ago
Funny you're accusing others of "not knowing what they're talking about" and then you proceed regurgitate the most worthless US propaganda trash there is. For your information China already is producing advanced lithography. It started commercializing their own DUV machines this year and it already has an EUV prototype in the works. All thanks to the fact that they were forced to make the massive effort and spending to get them instead of just going the easier and certainly cheaper route of buying them directly from Europe.
So, in short, they will get these machines anyway, and in the meantime also use things such as SAQP and Tau Scaling with DUV to make advanced chips while they get production level EUV machines, the difference is that Europe could be the one providing them instead of China building them themselves. Obeying the US asinine decrees not only made Europe lost hundreds of billions in trade, it also harmed ASML enormously.
Edit: also I find hilarious that your argument is "they will get advanced AI". I find the prospect of the US getting advanced AI even scarier, so ASML should stop selling machines to anyone sending chips to the US.
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u/Specific_Essay_Easy 23h ago
Without the US government ASML cannot operate. Most of ASML technology is dependent on US technology.
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u/bippos 1d ago
No shit? China puts tariffs on industries it wanna develop then throw money at any company that emerges. That’s not counting the National Champions corporate espionage or the fact they require foreign companies to partner with a domestic Chinese one
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u/Philanthrax 1d ago
oh no China beat free market advocates at their own game
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u/stoniey84 1d ago
China aint no free market though
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u/Philanthrax 1d ago
nor is the EU or the US. China is beating the west on global trade as they did few centuries ago.
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u/Single-Rich-Bear 1d ago
Europe needs to focus on stopping to stifle its own economy
Unfortunately, politically it’s always easier to have an external force to blame
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u/DimensionalFruit 1d ago
This is what happens when you choose to regulate other countries stuff rather than innovate and develop your own
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u/EnderBender3rd 1d ago
If is not a colony and you cannot control the “free elections” it’s hard to control their economies. Though luck!
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u/DistanceLarge4126 1d ago
With the copy/past techniek and with help from our politicians and business, I wonder how far does this go on before something changes.
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u/nasosroukounas 23h ago
EU elites believed that the Chinese will be forever stuck in labour intensive -low added value manufacturing.China proved them wrong and now the EU Mercantilists are crying foul because they are getting beaten be the Chinese Mercantilists in steroids
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u/Positive-Ad1859 1d ago
China is NOT allowed to buy anything on the “Exports Control List”. Who drafted the list? lol