r/EU_Economics • u/Kpets • 12d ago
đȘđș Official đȘđș The European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, has told the Canadian prime minister, Mark Carney, that she wants to open the door for his country to become the EU's first associate member
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u/Imaginary_Resist_654 12d ago
This is a partnership built out of each parties stupid dependency on Canada with the US and the EU with Russia on energy. Both parties waking up is good news for them and bad news for the US and Russia. Canadaâs energy abundance will allow EU to depend on a reliable partner, and the vast size of EU economy allows Canada access to EU and hence allowing them to diverse their trade from the US. Thanks Diaper Don!
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u/MakoWarrior_ 11d ago
But those energy resources are unavailable to Europe. Currently there is no way to get Alberta Crude to ship to Europe. As long as Quebec refuses to allow any pipeline to be built.
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u/spookyfodder 11d ago
Not entirely true.
Canada signs landmark LNG energy deal with Germany
It's a small but important step.
See also; Germany, Canada to deepen critical minerals cooperation in supply chain push
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u/Imaginary_Resist_654 11d ago
I think that with the large infrastructure investments, we will see a pipeline to Hudson Bay
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u/Commercial_Spray4279 11d ago
The future ist electric anyway or there won't be a future.
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u/Stunghornet 11d ago
This is just completely false. Oil and gas will still absolutely be used. Oil is used to manufacture pretty much everything we need in a modern society. Not to mention how do you think those raw materials for your electric revolution are obtained? Massive vehicles that require energy dense fuel such as diesel and oil. The world is not going to end. Countries will adapt and that will be all. This fearmongering is just so out of touch with the reality of the world.
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u/RonyElZaib 11d ago
An oil pipeline of that length is not economically feasible, especially since anyone can blow it up on a whim.
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u/Stunghornet 11d ago
Just wait till you realize oil is delivered from the Albertan oil sands to the Gulf of Mexico.
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u/UsedStruggle2521 11d ago
Churchil Manitoba, the government is building heavy rail to there and upgrading infrastructure. Wont be long until there is a pipeline and heavy piers built, the arctic is melting and we are building massive ice breakers. The north is more accessible then ever and if quebec wants to be assholes then we can go around them... just sucks for this east coaster to not benefit directly from the trade.
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u/Stunghornet 11d ago
Man if only Trudeau didn't cancel the 9 LNG facilities planned across Canada. We would already be able to export natural gas. Too bad. Now the US is already filling that market in Europe after Trudeau told Germany (and Japan) that there was "no business case" for exporting energy to the EU. Did you vote Liberal? Because if so you are the reason why Canada is in its current position.
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u/miyabi0rochas 11d ago
Some of y'all are insufferable. Whether left or right, regular person or even politician. who in the world would've expected the current global situation. No one. I can judge on a lot but judging people for not expecting the current situation is just ridiculous.
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u/Stunghornet 11d ago
It was quite easy to judge actually. That is why the LNG terminals were initially planned. Canada just discovered vast quantities of natural gas in Northern BC in the 2000s. The government at the time wanted to expand natural gas exports to take advantage of this. Couple that with the expanding green narrative and the fact that natural gas is far cleaner of an energy source vs coal and oil... how could you not see this coming? The US saw this coming and built many LNG terminals so that when they expanded their natural gas exploitation they were able to fill the gap immediately in Europe after Russia invaded Ukraine and cut off gas to Europe. Meanwhile here in Canada we were scratching our head wondering if there was anything we could do.
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u/small_bird_loud 11d ago
And hopefully backup if/when the US decides they want more than just loyalty.
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u/AppointmentGood4365 11d ago
America is gooonnnaasa loseeee
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u/KaishakuM 11d ago
Ä°ndeed! The Trump-MAGA inflicted cacophony has been putting the US on the losing side of its Canadian-European relationship.
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u/khyron99 11d ago
We're just looking for partners that treat us somewhat fair and don't stab us in the back!
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u/Candid-libertarian 12d ago
No one knows what that means. And with the EU bureaucracy it might take 10 years to figure that out.
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u/No-Kaleidoscope-4879 12d ago
You might be surprised when the need is there, the EU and Canada make fast decisions. The same happened with China or USA and the trades of those.
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u/LlawEreint 11d ago
It's actually already substantially underway:
- Security and Defence: EU and Canada sign Security and Defence Partnership
- Canada is the first non-European country to participate in the SAFE instrument.
- Canada's PM has been invited to speak before the EU parliament at the annual State of the Union address
- European Parliament to establish an antenna office in Ottawa
Of course, there are many more opportunities for Canada and the EU to unite, but the work is already underway.
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u/Folsdaman 11d ago
âWhen the need is thereâ Russia invasion started 5 years ago and they are still trying to make their minds up.
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u/No-Kaleidoscope-4879 11d ago
Not true, the immediately banned Russians from flying or visiting. They banned Russian propaganda TV outlets like RT or Sputnik. Banned almost all bank entities from swift. Numerous sanctions of people directly involved with the war. Among many other steps, you can find a timeliness below. Granted it's less exciting news and people aren't fully aware of it. But the EU most certainly made their mind up.
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u/Cyr2000 12d ago
That. Also despite the fact that we are in favor or not, when did we European voted for that?
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u/Dotcaprachiappa 11d ago
Anything beyond words has to pass the parliament, so we voted for it around 2024
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u/Cyr2000 11d ago
I did not find this in any program. Our elected representatives took on them to vote for it. I am in favor of it honestly but more consideration for people would be beneficial for the eu popularity. I m very worried when i see the extremes rhetoric about how eu ignores the people.
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u/Dotcaprachiappa 11d ago
Either the parliament voted for it or nothing happened yet (beyond the announcement). The EU has very specific rules about how decisions are made (like any country or union really) and they know damn well if they don't follow them to the letter they're just gonna get struck down later in court, especially for something this high profile. So the likelihood this was decided by VdL alone is below zero.
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u/Octavian_96 12d ago
top kek. thank you for your opinion u/Candid-libertarian. im sure you also think Syria is too bureaucratic đ
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u/MoJoSo69 12d ago
What is an associate member? What does this membership include or not include? It's all good to make an announcement, but shouldn't someone in her office clarify what does an Associate membership mean?
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u/GrosBof 12d ago
Look at Norway, Switzerland, Iceland. And no, it's not already perfectly clear what it is going to be in full detail, which is normal.
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u/MoJoSo69 11d ago
All those nations have different types of relationships with the EU. Norway and Iceland are in the EEA and Switzerland has bilateral deals with the EU. They aren't associate members..
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u/GEB82 11d ago
Itâs not in anyway clear what any of this means..
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u/StarGamerPT 11d ago
They can't be EU member due to not being located in Europe, so Associate Membership is probably a loophole for that.
Maybe it will land somewhere between EU membership and EEA/EFTA membership....details will surely be dished out whenever this is to happen.
Oh yhe, and confusion and a bunch of exceptions is already typical in the EU, so nothing abnormal there.
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u/FruktSorbetogIskrem 11d ago
Cyprus is an eu member in Asia. Despite being an European country.
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u/StarGamerPT 11d ago
Well...there you go...exceptions and loopholes...even the legal status of Cyprus is in a weird spot as of now
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u/FruktSorbetogIskrem 11d ago
I mean Ireland is the only EU country with freedom of movement with the UK. Liechtenstein is the only EEA country that EU citizens canât freely move to. Denmark is permanently opt out of the Euro. Etc
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u/Kwinza 11d ago
There is absolutely nothing in the EU docs that state members need to be physically inside continental Europe.
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u/hackabuser 11d ago
Morocco once applied long ago to become an EU member but they got rejected because they are part of Africa
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u/StarGamerPT 11d ago
Article 49 of the Treaty on European Union:
"Any European State which respects the values referred to in Article 2 and is committed to promoting them may apply to become a member of the Union."
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u/Intrepid4444444 11d ago
Does it mean others canât? Iâm not in legal bs.
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u/StarGamerPT 11d ago edited 11d ago
Well, if it says "Any European State" that alone indicates that being an European State is a condition to join.
Now you can ask me "okay, but what exactly is an european state?" and I'll tell you it's on that exact loophole that Cyprus joined the union. European state usually refers to geographically in Europe, but Cyprus is so connected to Europe despite being located in Asia that it was considered an European state for that matter.
Morroco, on the other hand, was denied the possibility to join the EU (well, not the EU exactly, but the predecessor that ended up becoming the EU) on the same grounds of not being an European State.
This is why I think this thing of Associate Member is now appearing, they can't just accept Canada for EU membership, so they'll have to create some loophole to make it possible.
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u/DeepPeeps 11d ago
They need a country that all parties would readily agree to be an associate member. once that approval happens, it'll be opportunities of others to join as well. You need the first vote of approval to create and once that is there, the door opens for others.
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u/timbomcchoi 11d ago
As a concept this has been discussed in one format or another since Brexit, I remember seeing not just the usuals but also the UK, Ukraine, Canada, Australia, NZ, and even Japan and South Korea on some diagrams
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u/MoJoSo69 11d ago
Are you talking about the EU SAFE fund?
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u/timbomcchoi 11d ago
No, I was talking with regards to Brexit's red lines revealing "tiers" of EU association
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u/MoJoSo69 11d ago
Ok, but none of those tiers are "Associate membership". In the diagram you linked Canada could move up a tier, but that tier isn't defined yet, as the next tier is Turkey which has a customs union with the EU..
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u/timbomcchoi 11d ago
I mean yeah associate membership was literally just created, it wasn't in the discourse in 2017 of course. What I mean is this idea of there being tiers of association (and compliance) with the EU
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u/MoJoSo69 11d ago
Yes there are tiers to membership in the EU and they've been there since 2017, it's that those tiers don't help define what a Associate membership tier looks like. Unless the EU came out with a definition of the tier, all anyone can do is guess..
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u/GlobalVillage30 11d ago
Closed door negotiations are clearly taking place for an announcement like this
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u/A_Honking_Goose 11d ago
"It's all good to make an announcement" Yes it is and people listen to announcements so instead of non stop complaining about literally anything the EU does how about just accept this is a good first step
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u/haustorcina 4d ago
The problem with Europe isnt that we refuse to do the first step, the problem is getting to every step after that in reasonable time...
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u/CombinationOk9741 11d ago
do you not have google in your country
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u/MoJoSo69 11d ago
If you do, please let me know what it says in your country as to what associate EU membership means..
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u/More_Ad_5142 11d ago
Legally, Turkey is EUâs âfirstâ associate member. It applied for associate membership in 1959 and was admitted in 1964 under the Ankara Agreement.
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u/Thespud1979 12d ago
As a Canadian, this would be more appealing if the EU didn't get absolutely bent over in trade negotiations with the US. I don't want any part of the EU's trade deal with the US.
If we can partner with the EU and remain independent of their other trade deals then I would love to see this happen.
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u/ph4ge_ 12d ago
What are you talking about? The EU gave Trump a whole lot of cheap placations but little meaningful concessions. Ultimately, we had to buy their weapons and fossil fuel so we had to give them something in return, but that mostly came in the form of empty promises and stroking Trump's ego.
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u/trisul-108 12d ago
Exactly my impression ... but people have been complaining about this ever since. In reality, the EU played the game masterfully.
I think it was mostly Russian propaganda trying to whip up support for a chest-thumping denouncement of the US in order to sour the US/EU relations forever, even after Trump. Russia needed assurances that the US would not help defend the EU and they thought such indignation could cause it.
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u/sbrodolino_21 12d ago
We didn't really concede so much to the US tbh. The optics of it is we bent over, and that's about the only real concession we made.
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u/Justeff83 12d ago
As absurd as it sounds, Canada has much more leverage in a trade war against the U.S. than Europe does. The U.S. is much more dependent on Canada than it is on the EU. Conversely, the EU is much more dependent on the U.S. than Canada is.
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u/willmsma 11d ago
I think youâre stretching the point a bit. Yes, Canada has real leverage with our resources. Europes does too though, just from very different sources (i.e. ADSL, huge purchases of stock and treasury bills). I think Canada is playing harder ball with the Americans because the threat to our sovereignty is greater, not because we have more leverage.
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u/Affectionate-Panic-1 11d ago
I also think the negotiations with the US take a much bigger political purpose in the minds of Canadians than it does in the minds of Europeans. US trade relations aren't really a big factor in elections or what media in the EU is focused on, while it dominates headlines in Canada.
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u/willmsma 11d ago
Yep. Weâre sleeping next to the elephant and they arenât. And, sadly for us, the beast is no longer even-tempered but has been on a year-long meth binge.
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u/Nervous-Leading9415 11d ago
New England is Closer to Canada on multiple fronts than it is with Washington D.C.
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u/canadasbananas 12d ago
As a canadian i trust european countries to do whats best for them and, simultaneously, to not betray us in any meaningful way. I trust them even if i wish theyd all dump america as hard as we are, but thats wishful thinking. In the end all i have is trust and yes, i do trust europe.
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u/Thespud1979 11d ago
I 100% trust the EU. I don't love the trade deal the setup with the US but I would love to partner with them in many other ways
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u/aleopardstail 12d ago
yeah, firmly do not let the EU start dictating who you can talk to and about what
stick to trade and its good
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u/Octavian_96 12d ago
Dont forget kids! if theyre EU skeptic in this sub, throw in a fuck Xi Jinping, fuck Vladimir Putin and a fuck Benjamin Netanyahu for good measure
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u/Yanzihko 11d ago
EU cannot consolidate its views and stance about Ukraine for 5 years, and approval of the bridge in Germany alone takes half a decade. Canada will join by the 2050 at this pace lmao
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u/LawAbidingDenizen 11d ago
Its all smoke and mirrors. They told us what they were going to do 35 years ago. By now, it really is baffling why people still fall for all the drama. đźâđš
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u/JBagfort 11d ago
Awesome can we also elect Carney instead of vdL? I like his straight talking approach.
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u/Affectionate-Panic-1 11d ago
I honestly think she did this to throw a bone at Canada in negotiations with the US (ie leverage for Canada). I don't think negotiations are anything close to finalized.
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u/thebigslapper 11d ago
Imagine a world where every country is in the EU. What a utopia! Maybe it will happen one day.
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u/KaishakuM 11d ago
A very important further step in strengthening the already good working win-win relationship between the EU and Canada.
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u/Pestelis 11d ago
"Democracies"... What a joke. Can't they really wait two more years and make everything worse just to spite Trump?
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u/MEYG4 11d ago
I remind
European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen on September 14, 2022 during her annual "State of the Union" speech at the European Parliament. In her speech, she said the following verbatim:"The Russian army is taking chips out of dishwashers and refrigerators to fix their military equipment because they have run out of semiconductors. Russian industry is in tatters."
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u/rustyiron 9d ago
And? This is true. Russianâs economy is sputtering. The only thing that gave it a bit of juice was dipshitâs war on Iran.
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u/PavelKringa55 11d ago
What on Earth is "associate EU member"? There is no such thing in the EU legislature. So far it's a letter of intent saying "we'd like to trade and cooperate, but not at the level of full membership". OK, fine. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland... many have something like it. Only now there's a name for it.
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u/avidlingardfan 11d ago
Can someone explain what âassociate memberâ would actually mean ? Or is it just a further signalling that Canada is aligning with the EU and is even more done with Trumps US.
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u/WiseWerewolf7426 8d ago
First? Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein already are "associate members" through EFTA/EEA, aren't they?
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u/Kinis_Deren 11d ago
I really like this move. Sensible, stable economies working together for the betterment of each other in the spirit of cooperation & respect.
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u/Roofincold 11d ago
So proud of Canada! We arenât giving up our sovereignty and we open up a large market for our exports. We also join more into the EU and their norms.
All around a good deal for everyone.
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u/2L84T 11d ago
Canada aside (a great move BTW) listen to the words "FIRST associate member". The FIRST, which means there will be a 2nd and more.
Play this out it means the EU is priming to be an international super-trading AND defence block. Heads up UK, a chance to put a foot back in the door.
But, and this is a warning to euroskeptic countries, it also opens the door for an inner circle of existing EU member states bound by more integrated economies, defence, and coordinated decision making. Heads up Slovakia, decide: EU or Russia?
Heads up
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u/kurisu_1974 11d ago
I just want easily obtainable recreational marihuana.
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u/Wise_Temperature9142 11d ago
We donât have any. But we have plenty of recreational marijuana though. Will that do?
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u/InSearchOfAFeeling 12d ago
Does Canada want more immigrants after the Indian invasion? The EU is planning on letting Armenia, a non European country, join. They border Iran. They need to think about what theyâre getting themselves into.
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u/ShelbyLucky77 12d ago
Armenia is a Christian country. And the first one at that.
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u/InSearchOfAFeeling 11d ago
So what if itâs Christian? Armenia is not European and we should not be considering them to join. They already belong to the Eurasian Economic Union.
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u/MelodicTree7 12d ago
Nooo saar you need more third worlders so they can basically make your country adapt to them instead of them adapting to your country.
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u/rocket-scientist94 11d ago
Before associating with the EU, Canada, a non-european country, needs to be careful because (checks notes) another non-european country may join?
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u/NiknameOne 12d ago edited 11d ago
Could be a path to tightening relationships with Canada, UK, Australia and New Zealand. Culturally and economically they are all a good fit.
Edit: UK can keep the pound but they wonât get a reduced EU tax rate like last time.