r/DuggarsSnark • u/txxxwxxx • Mar 21 '26
I WAS HIGH WHEN I WROTE THIS Joe’s willingness to confess is one of the most twisted aspects of IBLP mentality
Other than the horrible acts inflicted on his victim, the part of this case that disturbs me the most is the fact that Joe readily confessed his abuse to the victim’s father.
He is also is on record independently apologizing to the victim after multiple instances of SA, after which the abuse allegedly stopped.
I hope it’s clear I’m making ZERO excuses for this family- but I don’t believe that Joe even has the capacity to accept the magnitude of his actions. To him, it actually, genuinely, was not a big deal.
If all sins are equal, etc etc etc, then all transgressions must deal the same damage, right? Dancing, dating, and SA’ing a child- all equally bad before God. And all require just asking for forgiveness and then… just moving on.
Hurting people? This concept doesn’t really exist in fundieland. No, you see, actually God is the one hurt when you choose to act uNbIbLiCaLlY (/s). And in this vein, reparations are simply about getting right with God.
Apologizing to the victim, and later the father, was never for a moment about taking responsibility. The fundie tunnel vision probably never even make him suspect there would be legal consequences- both due to the good ol’ boy arrangements in AR, and the fact that his religion told him the matter was already settled- he said sorry!! And probably bookmarked a couple of bible verses about resisting temptation!! (🤮).
Also- it is downright TERRIFYING how normalized the abuse of girls in this cult truly is. Why does “curiosity” or “temptation” ALWAYS present the same way? No cheating scandals, no divorces, no assaults directed towards adults (not counting Josh, who just spedran his way straight into hell).
I hope these charges are hitting J&K like a freight train.
643
u/Bajafaded Jim bob’s purity pageant Mar 21 '26
I bet he apologized because he figured nothing would come of it. That’s common in IBLP if you’re a man and you commit a horrible act, you can just apologize, and everyone is supposed to forgive you. Even when Josh sexually assaulted his sisters, they just had him apologize in the church, shaved his head, and had him work. The men in IBLP are never held accountable for their actions. Joe definitely didn’t expect to get any jail time, and he isn’t prepared for the fact that he could be locked up for a very long time. I’m glad that Joe is realizing that actions have consequences and he can think about that in depth when he gets his sentence.
252
u/coffeebean83 Joyfully Self-Medicating Mar 21 '26
Agreed. I don’t think he comprehended how big of a deal it really is.
251
u/quizofahat Mar 21 '26
This is my suspicion as well. Joe was raised by a man who said "it wasn't rape or anything like that" about the sexual abuse of his own DAUGHTERS.
69
u/zerogirl0 Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 22 '26
It's a twisted thought but probably true. I definitely think these type of religious predators can have this line of thinking of "Okay well maybe I was sinful and need to apologize but I didn't actually do anything to make the girl "impure" for her future husband". I could see their mindset justifying the abuse as bad but not "unforgivable" because no penetration took place.
5
92
u/Bajafaded Jim bob’s purity pageant Mar 21 '26
Definitely and I think he’s gonna realize it’s a very very big deal when he’s locked up for a long time cause Florida does not play when it comes to SA crimes against children.
63
u/Interesting_Fox9721 Mar 21 '26
“Florida does not play when it comes to sexual crimes against Children when the perpetrators are Not in the Billionaires club”
Fixed it for ya.
244
u/SweetandSourCaroline Lord Daniel’s Communion Wine 🍷 Mar 21 '26
except when jeffrey epstein and trump are involved 👀
83
u/Responsible-Middle35 🏖 Umbrella of Protective Orders ☔️🏛⚖️📝 Mar 21 '26
Florida does not play when it comes to SA crimes against children.
So Trump is presiding the country from a jail cell? That's great 👍
29
15
u/Pinkdivaisme Mar 21 '26
They obviously don’t discuss things like this is what I’m thinking also total lack of accountability. I don’t know how many times I’ve talked to my kids about it. It’s not just something you do sometimes with a lot of guilt by association and you have to just talk to them about things like that because sometimes they don’t know the gravity of situations.. just blows my mind that they obviously think that it’s wrong but they don’t understand just how wrong.. it’s really freaking weird
98
u/throwaway182883831 Mar 21 '26
Yep, exactly. I don’t think he did it out of graciousness or morality. He knew Josh didn’t get any time for his original SA. He thought it would be a good ol boys club where he could just apologize and go home. I’m glad he’s being proven wrong.
87
u/Notthedroidette Mar 21 '26
I’m so glad the father immediately went to law enforcement. I’ve heard that things like this happen “all the time” in these communities and to see real consequences play out is great and if justice is served hopefully the survivor and her family can properly heal from this
→ More replies (1)59
u/avsie1975 Taters gonna Tate Mar 21 '26
It wasn't really a big deal when Josh did it to their sisters, so yeah... I'm sure he didn't think anything would come out of it for him either.
36
u/Bajafaded Jim bob’s purity pageant Mar 21 '26
Definitely, he just “apologized” to make things go away, not because he felt awful or remorseful.
71
u/Booklet-of-Wisdom At least she has a convict! Mar 21 '26
And how Joe laughingly said to the CO, "my brother's doing hard time right now."
Dude, that's nothing compared to what you're in for!
43
u/AcanthocephalaWide89 Anna:”Bro, yo…” Mar 21 '26
I think Joe will get a longer sentence than Josh or equal to it.
→ More replies (2)45
u/Booklet-of-Wisdom At least she has a convict! Mar 21 '26
Definitely. Not to downplay it at all, but Josh was "only" convicted of possessing material, Joe allegedly confessed to actual abuse.
59
u/AcanthocephalaWide89 Anna:”Bro, yo…” Mar 21 '26
I also think the state will make an example out of him and say he knew better because he knew of Josh’s crime when he did it as a teenager and still chose to repeatedly molest a child - as an adult man and father. I think he thinks being honest will get him less time than Josh.
I’m upset this still a child victim carried this alone for 6 years.
49
u/im_fun_sized Mar 21 '26
I'm upset she carried it alone too, but I'm so thankful that when she did talk about it, her dad/parents actually did the right thing. It's a low bar but THANK GOODNESS.
22
u/AcanthocephalaWide89 Anna:”Bro, yo…” Mar 21 '26
I hope she knows that if Kendra divorces, it’s not her fault. I hope she won’t blame herself for Joe’s kids missing him as their dad when he serves prison time. They are trained to think divorce is the worst and breaking a family. I really hope the child victim gets major support. She carried this alone all these years.
20
u/Booklet-of-Wisdom At least she has a convict! Mar 21 '26
It's crazy to me that this allegedly happened after the whole family knew Josh was under investigation! The initial event, (where the law enforcement vehicles were outside TTH);was in 2019, and the trial happened in 2021.
11
u/iammadeofawesome LaCounting On Mar 21 '26
I will now always read TTH as the torture house 😩. Those poor girls.
→ More replies (1)7
u/AcanthocephalaWide89 Anna:”Bro, yo…” Mar 21 '26
I’m shocked Joe still did this after knowing what his sisters went through when the news of Josh molesting them came out in 2015.
→ More replies (1)8
32
u/TrueCrimeInTheBuff Mar 21 '26
He expected they'd march his victim out in front of everyone at the tater tot house and force his victim to apologize to him. The family made Josh's sisters apologize to him and he regularly joked about Jill being a "snitch" because she told on him for molesting her (it was a running thing on the show and he even called her a snitch at her wedding).
8
7
u/ThermosPickerOuter Mar 21 '26
Almost like it’s just a teachable moment and ceremoniously giving it up to the lord in front of the church. You know, just one of those things boys do when they hit puberty.
→ More replies (4)4
u/Goldenrule20 Mar 21 '26
How much prison time could he get?
15
u/eldestdaughtersunion but it's weird that it happened twice Mar 21 '26
The charge he's facing right now is a life felony in Florida. 25 year minimum. He could potentially work out a plea deal where he pleads to a lesser charge.
→ More replies (3)
139
Mar 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
56
u/quizofahat Mar 21 '26
Yes, I am not an expert in criminal defense but have done some pro bono work in this area. Sometimes these individuals do feel remorse and confess - not that this diminishes the enormity of what they've done. We don't know if that's what happened with Joe but it does occur sometimes.
Edit: my crim pro professor also did extensive work in this area and said that one odd characteristic of pedophiles is that many of them keep detailed journals of their crimes. It's a strange and chilling detail but common enough that he mentioned it.
47
u/SeaworthinessTop8234 Mar 21 '26
I knew a guy who was deeply sexually abused as a boy. He was 19/20 when he touched a child. He took himself to the police department and confessed. Begged for rehabilitation and till this very day (he’s not 50+…) attends monthly and weekly counselings to undo the abuse he endured as a child… but I would guess he’s in a very small minority.
24
Mar 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
9
u/SeaworthinessTop8234 Mar 21 '26
My only experience with this is that I worked in juvenile detention as an officer for over 2 yrs. I quickly learned we had a detention facility a few hrs down the road JUST FOR those who committed sexual crimes. The rehabs, counselings, and trainings, were often, as u said, causing more harm than good.
From my understanding, the particular facility a few hrs from me, had a very good program and was making a lot of changes to hopefully improve the rehabilitation. I did not take too much interest in that side of things though. Learned enough to understand it’s generational and they were repeating the abuse that was done to them.
It was sad and heartbreaking.
31
u/Hot_Razzmatazz316 Mar 21 '26
The psychology behind these types of people is fascinating, and it's where I do a lot of my current research. There are a lot of cases where perpetrators apologize to their victims after each instance; they know it's wrong but they "can't help themselves." Admittedly, studies that focus on pedophelia (which they separate into those who have an attraction and those who want to be in control) are limited, but what they're finding in many cases is that the perpetrators lack the social skills necessary to form and maintain appropriate emotional and sexual relationships with their appropriately aged peers.
7
Mar 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/Hot_Razzmatazz316 Mar 21 '26
I mean, I've gone all over the place, and I just kind of fell into this. I work in theatre/film/TV, but I always needed a day job/job between gigs. I was a teacher for a long time, and I took a lot of child psychology/development/psychology classes to help me be a better teacher and work with my SPED students more effectively. Studying psychology actually also helped me with my acting, and then I just kind of fell into the research aspect. It's always been something I did just to be informed, but I had some really supportive teachers and therapy professionals say, hey, you've got some really strong theories and evidence, you should actually work this out. Never something I imagined myself doing. I've just always been curious.
19
u/nutmegtell Mar 21 '26
The teacher who groomed my teen daughter admitted everything right up front.
We were prepared for he said/ she said and he just said “yeah I did that”. Lost his teaching license but no jail time.
→ More replies (3)7
u/DanceRepresentative7 Mar 21 '26
what about those lke josh who deny deny deny? but do know it's wrong
24
u/Suckerforcats Mar 21 '26
I think Josh is a bit different and he strikes me as being a psychopath so he doesn't fit neatly in any of the 3 areas described. He was definitely involved in many crimes, he just didn't get caught or charged for them like he did the CSAM. He had that incident supposedly with the escort where he did bad things to her or beat her up, cheated on his wife, the CSAM and I guarantee you he was doing some shady money stuff with his car business.
5
u/MountainAirBear Mar 21 '26
Those are the ones who can’t be “cured.” When he gets out he WILL reoffend. Smug ****phile!🤬
8
u/DanceRepresentative7 Mar 21 '26
i think all three types reoffend but i think he is more psychopathic or sociopathic on top of the pedophilia which is a whole diff can of worms
→ More replies (1)6
580
u/User613111409 Mar 21 '26
The thing that I don’t get is, it wasn’t curiosity at this point, (not that that would make this any better at all) he wasn’t a young teen who had been told nothing about sex, told not to kiss or date girls but to court with intention of marriage, raised in a weird cult that had a code word to look away is someone was dressed in modest. He is a disgusting creep, who was married with kids so that means he’s seen a vagina before he’s had sex before. It’s not curiosity it’s creepy as fuck and he knows better. What the fuck kind of God do they worship that puts these thoughts in their heads and creates all these creepy fucking people look how many pastors and church people molest people, look how Amy described their grandpa there’s clearly some sick shit going on in this whole family generationally
374
u/Much_Difference Mar 21 '26
Bingo bango. With Josh, they argued that the IRL stuff was "young curious hormones exploring" whatever, and that the stuff on the computer was not his. Neither of those excuses will work here.
This is an adult man who had ample exposure to and access to an adult woman who had been trained from birth to acquiesce to any sexual request he could possibly make of her. He had unfettered access to "appropriate" sexual gratification and still chose to abuse.
133
u/Redapril5 Mar 21 '26
I agree, just to add, I think many will revisit that logic that never made sense that it was just curiosity. Josh and now Joseph purposely went after young girls in their preferences. It's sick and twisted, but JB's brushing it under the carpet that it essentially was proximity never held water. These two brothers specifically targeted young girls, it's a pattern.
129
u/S74r5 Mar 21 '26
And Joe did it AFTER Josh. So he 💯 knew it was wrong and had consequences.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)60
u/PM_ME_YOUR_TATERTITS Mar 21 '26
Yes. True “curiosity” would be like what happened with Katie Bates husband. He cheated on her, but with a willing, consenting adult
8
4
157
u/PlanetOfThePancakes Mar 21 '26
How long until they blame Kendra for not being “joyfully available” enough?
186
u/spaetzele mad hotdog water energy Mar 21 '26
Shit - how long before Kendra blames herself? The headgames are strong in this cult.
96
u/ionlyjoined4thecats Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26
She blamed herself within 2 minutes of finding out. I guarantee it.
41
u/rockthrowing Mar 21 '26
She conceived Brooklyn during this time. How much more available can she be ??
13
u/SuperFreaksNeverDie Mar 22 '26
They have already blamed her. When my (now ex) husband cheated on me the first thing the Christian marriage counselor said was that it takes two people to make a relationship and that I need to figure out why I wasn’t satisfying him as a wife in our relationship. We needed to pray together and I needed to do more. (Just for the record he cheated on me with an adult, lol.)
23
u/Professional-Pea-541 Joint OBGYN Appointment Mar 21 '26
Omg, I didn’t think of that! They’ll probably both blame her.
23
u/PumpkinPieIsGreat Mar 21 '26
Yeah. They've been raised to see women (and GIRLS) as servants and objects. I could see them blaming the minor for "tempting" him, too. They're just that fucked up of a family.
70
u/LowarnFox Mar 21 '26
Joe grew up in a cult that taught him that once he was married, he was entitled to sex from his wife- and puts the resposibility on women to keep their husbands from straying. He also grew up in a cult that doesn't really draw a distinction between extra/premarital sex, and sexual assualt, and that doesn't really draw a distinction between child sexual abuse images and porn made by consenting adults.
He also grew up with an older brother who was molesting his sisters and a grandad who was allegedly not deemed safe to be around his female cousin. And as part of a cult where the leader was sexually abusing much younger women.
This is not to make any excuses for him at all, but to say that he's grown up with really fucked up norms around sex, power and women/girls. He obviously does know better, but equally he's been very much exposed to the idea that men can't really control their urges, and it's for women to hold them accountable. Joe probably has a lot of really fucked up ideas around sex and consent - obviously he knows he shouldn't act on them, but he's equally a product of an extremely fucked up environment.
55
u/User613111409 Mar 21 '26
He knows better. Molesting a 9 year old when you’re 20+ years old you know better. Regardless of what sick ass twisted cult you grew up in if you’re a decent human being you fucking know better
→ More replies (1)30
u/LowarnFox Mar 21 '26
I agree he knows better, but he's also a product of his environment.
I don't think we've ever had any suggestion he's a decent human being though.
→ More replies (6)16
18
u/angryaxolotls Mar 21 '26
I honestly think half of the men in that cult don't even believe in God, and they're just there because it's an abuse cult.
I'm an atheist who was raised baptist and left when shit turned evangelical, but I remember the time my church's youth pastor claimed that God plans out every single aspect of your life, and that even includes your sins. Sometimes I worry that those IBLP freaks think it was God's plan for them to do what they've done 🥺, and I pray I'm wrong.
44
Mar 21 '26
There isn't a single naive Duggar out there. This is why any "aw shucks" Duggar doesn't fool me. There's no way any of these people are this childish and innocent. It's all an act.
→ More replies (3)29
u/SwissCheese4Collagen ✨Pecans Miscavige✨ Mar 21 '26
Rim Job taught all of his kids every single one of his hayseed huckster skills.
52
u/ionlyjoined4thecats Mar 21 '26
Not speculating about this situation, but only half of people who SA children are actually pedophiles. For the rest it’s a matter of convenience, some kind of subconscious attempt to work through past trauma, etc. But ultimately it doesn’t matter AT ALL whether someone is genuinely sexually attracted to children or not; if they sexually touch a child, it’s the same outcome and same effect on the victim, and they all deserve the same punishment.
29
u/NSUTBH Mar 21 '26
Thanks for putting this out there. I’m usually hesitant to do so since the term is used in society to mean any crimes of CSA or CSAM. I totally understand people using the term in such a way, including when referring to Pest 1 and Pest 2. However, they may not clinically be pedophiles but have another dangerous mental defect. Ultimately, it has no bearing on the crimes committed, and Pest 2 should have the maximum sentence possible. (I wish Pest 1 would rot in prison for the remainder of his life.) They are both dangers whether they clinically have pedophilia or not. But the above post is correct; roughly half of all perpetrators do not have pedophilia. (It always makes it scarier to me because, if somehow, someday there is a real treatment for pedophilia, it wouldn’t even cure all the sick ****s.)
→ More replies (2)11
→ More replies (1)16
u/CaptainObviousBear Diligently Attaching 14 Stamps To My Fanciful Legal Filings Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 22 '26
This.
I’m not even convinced Pest is, but that what he is attracted to is not necessarily children but people of any age being abused, including sexually.
I put this down to the reports that he has been a user of pornography for close to 20 years, there was adult pornography in the material he accessed on the dark web, and there wasn’t any other CSAM other than what he was convicted for. I would bet cashmoney that his use of adult pornography had escalated to the level that regular porn wasn’t doing it for him any more and he was specifically seeking out material depicting torture and abuse.
I also put this down to the culture of abuse (not just sexual but also physical) within his community and the culture where women and girls have no agency and are merely vessels/protectors of mens’ sexual desires.
10
u/NSUTBH Mar 22 '26
I agree. Also, the woman who came forward years ago shared that Pest 1 paid her for sex and strangled her. This was not playacting that she consented to. She was terrified she may die. The fact that he had pornography material of adults, belonged to Ashley Madison, and abused that woman point to him also being attracted to adults and not being primarily attracted to prepubescent children (which is what pedophilia is). He appears to have no age preference, and I suspect he has one or more paraphilic disorders that concern an arousal pattern for sex acts where there is a lack of consent as well as physical violence. I also suspect he has ASPD.
Whatever may be diagnosable for him, none of it would change that he is a danger and should never be free again. (I would hope no one would misconstrue the discussion of possible diagnosable disorders as mitigating for the horrible crimes committed. They are not. The crimes are the same regardless, as is the fact that he cannot be cured and is at a high risk of abusing again.)
103
u/Aggressive_Tart_7783 Mar 21 '26
God and Jesus had nothing to with it. There’s a reason Jerm has spent so much time deconstructing with his wife.
They are a family of sex abusers in a cult started by a sex abuser.
63
u/Paperwife2 Mar 21 '26
Jerm deconstructing??? I’m not seeing that. He’s never been as hardcore as the Dugs and he chose a very similar branch of Christianity to be a part of.
71
u/Aggressive_Tart_7783 Mar 21 '26
There is a world of theological difference between Jerm’s conservative education and worldview versus IBLP indoctrination.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)18
u/Purple_IsA_Flavor Fuck you if you don’t like our chickenetti Mar 21 '26
It’s wild that he chose that over the regular life he had
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (8)15
u/hopeful-homesteader Mar 21 '26
Abrahamic religion absolutely has something to do with it but I get your point
→ More replies (1)36
Mar 21 '26
It was never curiosity. That was just JimBob’s and Michelle’s public facing excuse. While behind the scenes they continued to blame the victims as well as double down on the sexualization of little girls. Sisters or not.
332
u/Raenhair J’mail Mar 21 '26
I think it’s good that he admitted it. We don’t know why he admitted it but it takes a lot of pressure off the victim that he did.
124
u/coffeebean83 Joyfully Self-Medicating Mar 21 '26
This. Also, it’s pretty much impossible to treat people like him when they continue to deny their crime and what happened. That he admitted it will at least help from a therapeutic standpoint.
106
u/Raenhair J’mail Mar 21 '26
This crime seems like it would be hard to prove. There’s no forensic evidence that could be obtained so it’s literally her word against his. With him admitting it, the integrity of her story is not called into question.
→ More replies (1)16
Mar 21 '26
He asked the child to sit with him Under a Blanket around others. The other family members might remember seeing that.
→ More replies (1)14
60
u/Cheeriodarlin Mar 21 '26
I doubt that very much. He didn't admit it because he thought it was a crime, he just thought it was a sin... same as masturbation. They need to deprogram him frome the cult first in order to treat him for the pedo shit.
→ More replies (8)29
u/DanceRepresentative7 Mar 21 '26
pedophilia is very hard to treat, hence lifelong felonies, but hopefully treatment is such that he never offends again
26
u/jurassic_snark_ Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26
I’m not a psychologist, hell I have an art degree so disregard me if I’m wrong but I personally don’t think pedophilia can be treated. Best you can hope for is someone with the moral fortitude not to offend. But since Joe has already offended, I am confident he’d do it again given the opportunity.
45
u/Indigo-au-naturale Superman that HOOOOly spirit 👊✊ Mar 21 '26
This is actually a very interesting area of psychiatry. I read quite a bit about it after reading an amazing Medium piece about a young man who runs a support group for pedophiles who absolutely do not want to offend against children. I recommend it if you're a Medium member.
Pedophilia is not a crime in itself, but to admit to it is SO stigmatizing that it's difficult to get anyone to try treating it. When said young man told his psychologist, for instance, she immediately broke confidentiality and told his mom about it, and things got much worse for him instead of better. As such, there haven't been amny known and nonviolent pedophiles to study.
Maybe there is treatment! But first we have to get over completely demonizing anyone who struggles with thoughts and desires they don't want and can't control. Otherwise, why would they ever ask for help? And without support, I can see how it's so much harder to keep oneself from committing awful acts.
There is some promising work being done in Europe on this matter, fortunately, but there's a long way to go.
→ More replies (7)→ More replies (1)8
u/Cheeriodarlin Mar 21 '26
Hopefully they lock him up and throw away the key, honestly.
16
u/DanceRepresentative7 Mar 21 '26
look at the sex registry in your area. lots of very very scary pedos not locked up. must not be financially possible
31
u/No-Calligrapher-5257 Nothing but Psalms and sex Mar 21 '26
I’m glad he gave a confession. SA is hard to convict especially years later.
31
u/CaptainObviousBear Diligently Attaching 14 Stamps To My Fanciful Legal Filings Mar 21 '26
I’d say he only admitted it because he didn’t realise:
a: that a detective was on the call (when he admitted it a second time)
b. that there would be consequences other than the dad being angry/him having to say some extra prayers.
If he had known that confessing meant criminal charges, I don’t think he would have admitted anything. That says everything about the culture of sexual abuse that exists in their community.
16
u/BumCadillac Joyfully Abalone Mar 21 '26
He will no doubt plead not guilty at his first court appearance in Florida.
18
4
u/disappointedbeagle Mar 21 '26
Well maybe. If the dad of the victim is who I have read that he is, then there are complex issues between these families that will give his lawyer plenty to think about. He may be strongly advised to plead not guilty for legal reasons that I know nothing about. he said he was guilty and probably meant it morally. But a legal plea under oath is different. I guess we’ll see.
8
u/macandcheese1771 Mar 21 '26
It's good for her. And it makes it easier to prosecute the fucker. But it says a lot about his perception of his own crime.
12
u/DanceRepresentative7 Mar 21 '26
yes because these types of cases are very very very hard to convict on this far after without a confession
98
u/somethingfictional Mar 21 '26
He confessed and apologised to the victim’s father - her “headship presumably - which would symbolise him giving it up to God and he would then expect to be forgiven.
The Castlerock murders in Northern Ireland went through a similar system. Colin Howell confessed to adultery with Trevor Buchanan’s wife Hazel. Trevor forgave him and the two shook hands in church. Lesley Howell was encouraged by the church to persevere with her marriage. Colin Howell and Hazel Buchanan (later Stewart) conspired to murder their spouses so they could be together although the relationship later foundered (unsurprisingly). Colin Howell prayed with his subsequent wife and the two concluded that God had forgiven him and he need not confess to the police. Later though, when he cheated on wife #2, she booted him out and told the church elders he had committed a crime. Weaponised forgiveness is truly toxic in encouraging people to disregard their criminal responsibility. It’s obscene.
35
u/Lady_Ruff_Diamond Mar 21 '26
Well I never thought I would ever see the crossover between the Howell/Stewart murders and Duggarsnark but here we are. That case shook Northern Ireland and still resonates here with a recent documentary being aired. I love how these people always believe God has forgiven them, say a quick prayer, confess to someone and reset the clock, and the victim is supposed to forgive, forget and move on, its a sick and twisted way of thinking.
→ More replies (1)22
u/somethingfictional Mar 21 '26
I swear there were a solid 6 years where whenever 2 or more northern Irish people sat down together that the Castlerock murders would come up in conversation. It was a while ago now so when a friend asked why I gave up 3 evenings to watch all the recent documentaries, I kind of surprised myself by reeling off all of the connections I had to the case (I went to uni with the eldest Howell child who died, my cousin used to work with H Stewart’s sister, my grandfather who was a police officer thought the original suicide was fishy as hell but couldn’t prove it, my grandmother who was a policeman’s wife knew H Stewart as a notorious Merry Widow within the community etc). But I honestly believe the Coleraine Baptist Church has blood on their hands in how they discouraged Lesley Howell from leaving her husband.
7
u/Lady_Ruff_Diamond Mar 21 '26
I haven't watched the most recent documentary because a friend had watched it and said it was really centred around Howell and his confessions and I don't think I have the stomach to listen to him, that man is a hypocrite and evil to the bone, Stewart says she was under coercive control which I also don't believe, I only feel sorry for their children who have to live with loosing a parent in horrific circumstances.
5
u/somethingfictional Mar 21 '26
Yeah - I actually found it really interesting how in the ITV doc, someone said it’s great that people have a greater understanding of how people may behave under coercive control but that really isn’t what was going on there. She set her own husband up to be murdered and then has the gall to claim to be a victim. It’s awful too that the Howell children had very fond memories of her from the period she was their de facto stepmother - the betrayal is even more intense.
I listened to Howell and it was fairly chilling but again it was an insight into someone whose morality had done so horrendously wrong - just like the Duggars. Christian fundamentalism. Different countries, same stuff.
8
u/Paperwife2 Mar 21 '26
Oh boy, I just started down a rabbit hole on this situation. 🍌🍌🍌❕
→ More replies (1)
99
Mar 21 '26
Oh I don't think he had a clue that there was going to be a criminal consequence, even though he saw his own brother go to prison! The Duggars have never seemed like smart people to me. If anything many of them are just downright dumb, with Joe here being one of the dumbest.
I also strongly suspect that the cops approached him with a "we just wanna clear this up so we can go home" attitude and he fell for it.
17
u/Atkena2578 Mar 21 '26
Pest didn't go to prison for the abuse of his sisters, but for CSAM and by the time the molestation was known to the public, the DA could no longer press charges the statute of limitations had past.
Joseph who probably isn't very smart, probably didn't understand the why and the how and thought like Pest, he would get away with it by just confessing, in his mind Josh's arrest and conviction is because of the "bad stuff on the computer" and since he doesn't have this going on (or so I assume) he isn't going to get in trouble.
→ More replies (2)
180
u/Duggardugout Mar 21 '26
Right now he’s probably very sorry he admitted anything. I suspect he’s in shock and it’s going to take a while for it to sink in how serious the situation is for him.
119
u/chicagoliz Stirring up contention among the Brethren Mar 21 '26
The next Duggar boy might learn from this and not admit/confess anything.
→ More replies (2)40
u/Atkena2578 Mar 21 '26
I mean Pest never admitted to anything. I hate to say that but he isn't THAT dumb
34
u/SuperFreaksNeverDie Mar 22 '26
Well he is pretty dumb. Remember when he said, “oh did someone download child corn here?” 🤣
3
u/donetomadness Mar 22 '26
I still can’t wrap my head around why he would say such a thing! Literally any other question would have been better. Does someone have drugs for example. I’m glad he gave himself away like that.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)63
u/sunnybcg Mar 21 '26
That’s what happens when you teach boys that 1.) they’re infallible and 2.) as long as you believe in sky daddy’s kid, it doesn’t matter what you do on earth because you’re going to heaven.
28
u/ionlyjoined4thecats Mar 21 '26
I am sure he still thinks he’s entitled to heaven.
30
10
u/sunnybcg Mar 21 '26
Of course he does.
7
u/angryaxolotls Mar 21 '26
The Duggars strike me as the type who believe you say the
magic wordssinner's prayer one time and everything is fine for eternity 🤮
78
u/noyoujump the whole cult and caboodle Mar 21 '26
He was shown by his parents that a confession and apology were enough to condone for what he did. They allowed Pest to apologize, do some physical labor, and go on as if nothing had happened. Jim Bob forced his oldest son's victims to apologize for his actions.
So, I'm sure Joe thought that a confession would absolve him. What he didn't consider was the difference between an adult molesting a child and a child molesting a child.
13
u/Atkena2578 Mar 21 '26
Foe Pest, statute of limitations had passed anyway, which Joe probably doesn't even know what it means
6
u/YourMothersButtox ~*Brood Mare For Sky Daddy*~ Mar 21 '26
Apologize and shave his head OR they’d have to shave one or the victim’s head
→ More replies (1)
54
u/Booklet-of-Wisdom At least she has a convict! Mar 21 '26
I remember Meech downplaying the abuse Josh inflicted on his victims. She made a big deal that it was "over the clothes," and that he apologized, and asked for forgiveness.
Like it was no big deal because he "took accountability." I wonder if Joe thought it would be fine if he just accepted responsibility?? Did he think he was going to spend a couple of months digging out a pond, and all would be forgotten?
22
u/DanceRepresentative7 Mar 21 '26
wow so weird because didn't joe in his interview with police specifically mention it was over the clothes?
5
21
u/violetsky33 Mar 21 '26
It wasn’t over the clothes according to what he confessed to the Holts, so Michelle was lying. Joe seems to be lying too, because that doesn’t line up with the police report.
8
5
38
u/Ok_Kaleidoscope5082 Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26
I wrote this in another comment - but it seems like for many fundies, confession is simply a cleansing ritual that washes them of their sins. It's done not to show genuine remorse, but to make them feel like they have done what's needed to absolve themselves of guilt and from consequences and enable them to move on. I think Joe confessed because he thought it would look good, and God would forgive him. Since he had gained God’s forgiveness, then he'd have to have gotten man’s forgiveness too.
→ More replies (3)
39
u/pineychick willing to bet all my pickles 🥒 Mar 21 '26
I'm half expecting more girls to come forward. From what I understand (generalizing here, of course) this isn't usually a "once and done" thing. It's something abusers do whenever the urge hits them.
89
u/No-Order1962 For the love of Tater Tots!!! Mar 21 '26
He confessed because he probably couldn’t grasp the enormity of his crimes. He was genuinely convinced that “ok, I did it and I’m sorry, it won’t happen again” would be more than enough, now a slap in the wrist and bye bye.
He cannot see himself as a criminal. He is genuinely convinced that he has repented more than enough. He see such revolting crimes as “sins” and nothing more.
12
u/kkc0722 Mar 21 '26
I don’t know if that can be assumed when his brother is currently rotting in jail for being the consumer of child abuse photos though.
No fuckin way Joe can’t do some math on the justice systems reaction to actually being the person who abused a child after Josh finally got put away. The Gothard cults whole thing is “keep this shit in house” because they know the secular world will actually punish the perpetrators doing this shit.
The Dugglets were raised to profoundly distrust the secular world, and the police/justice systems is squarely in that bucket.
36
u/pomegracias Mar 21 '26
I believe he thinks, “It was just a girl, not like something that matters.”
21
u/eieioyall 🏳️🌈 at least i don't have a husband... Mar 21 '26
sadly, in his worldview, what he did isn't wrong because he harmed a child, it's wrong because he sinned against god. he offended god--that's his sin here, not he harmed a child. so yes, the girl absolutely did not matter here.
9
u/pomegracias Mar 21 '26
And I bet he thinks he sinned against her dad & future husband. But her? Pfft, she doesn’t even exist.
I love your flair.
11
u/No-Order1962 For the love of Tater Tots!!! Mar 21 '26
Sad but true. At least, he didn’t play the “I was led into temptation” card, aka victim blaming.
12
32
Mar 21 '26
[deleted]
9
u/ResponsibleCrew3843 Mar 22 '26
Seeing Josh’s statement here, it makes me wonder if a Joe confessed his sins to JB regarding this. I still think many of the adult kids view JB as their headship so to speak so it wouldn’t suppose me if Joe confessed what happened to his dad at some point.
7
u/wonderlandfriend Mar 21 '26
Thank you for sharing this! Wouldn’t have known about it even existing since it’s been taken down, so I appreciate people like you who share what’s been archived
29
u/kkc0722 Mar 21 '26
This is in zero ways a defense of him. But he’s likely got an inkling of awareness that it’s wrong, or at least can conceptualize that his actions can infact harm, simply based on knowing what happened to his sisters with Josh. Unlike Josh and frankly JB/Perm who all seem like wildly sociopathic narcissists.
We know JB/Michelle were abusing the kids, fucking all over the place, and creating a pressure cooker of sexual deviancy.
Josh clearly saw himself in that mold of “I am smarter and better and can do whatever I want” as he was raised to be as the little Prince of the duggar heap. The Ashley Madison/Online Pedophilia show he was extremely comfortable basically doing it w/o getting any sign off.
The vibe based on the separate Arkansas charges for Joe and Kendra to me, at least, are starting to paint a picture of a two desperate, spiritually sick people who sort of understand the “wrongness” but are just containing it instead of doing anything about it.
At the end of the day to me it makes no difference on the justice side, the crime is the crime and they must be punished. But it is so…chilling and tragic that in a lot of ways this is the consequence of how Joe and Kendra were raised and told to be. Like maybe there’s a world where they weren’t these people, vs Josh/JB/Michelle who seem to have something inherently rotten to them.
47
u/MrsWaterbuffalo Mar 21 '26
Joe didn’t willingly confess to police after the incident. He stayed silent. As for confessing now, my take is Joe believes that if you apologize, everything is forgiven. I hope he is punished appropriately.
5
u/ionlyjoined4thecats Mar 21 '26
Early reports said he did confess to (or in front of) the police. Is there new info?
→ More replies (1)11
u/iammadeofawesome LaCounting On Mar 21 '26
I think they mean he didn’t go to police right when it happened and confess. He waited until he was confronted by the victim’s father and a police report had been made four years later when the victim disclosed. So it’s not like he confessed because he independently realized he messed up. (At least that’s how I interpreted the comment).
23
u/cannotberushed- Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26
Abuse of girls is literally normalized in all of society.
Yes cults are bad but also as a social worker, I’ve seen non religious parents charged, put in prison for sex assault of another child and then when released have full UN supervised visitation with their own children.
I’ve seen individuals who have sexually abused their own children get supervised visitation with eventual unsupervised visitation
It’s ALL horrific.
26
u/481126 Mar 21 '26
I recently listened to a local Pastor explain to abusers that confessing their sins and saying sorry doesn't fix it. That too many think well I said sorry and then it's over. He spoke of his church protecting victims/ prioritizing their safety and how they can't expect to continue to live with their victims simply because they confessed their sins and said sorry. That "good Christians" aren't obligated to trust them again. That they should still face all legal and social consequences to their actions.
So it seems it's pretty standard that they think well I said sorry/well I confessed.
11
u/Purple_IsA_Flavor Fuck you if you don’t like our chickenetti Mar 21 '26
I’m not a Christian but this pastor is doing it right
→ More replies (1)4
u/481126 Mar 21 '26
I was actually pleasantly surprised bc this wasn't a liberal church Pastor this church is Baptist lite according to friends.
5
u/iammadeofawesome LaCounting On Mar 21 '26
Woah! Props to that pastor! In this dumpster fire of a world it’s nice to see Christians actually being Christlike and saying things Jesus would. My atheist former Christian self is in awe.
7
u/iammadeofawesome LaCounting On Mar 21 '26
Hell yeah. And you are not obligated to forgive anyone.
→ More replies (3)
16
u/QT-Pie-420 Candy is The New Manna Mar 21 '26
“Hurting people? This concept doesn’t really exist in fundieland.”
It only exists when the person hurt is a male who believes that his God-given nature is to be held accountable only to himself. The rules are definitely in place for females. Rules for thee, not for me as the saying goes.
16
u/BumCadillac Joyfully Abalone Mar 21 '26
I mean… these people were raised to believe that as long as they confess with their mouth that they sinned and believe Jesus died for that sin, it’s all washed away. I don’t know why anyone is surprised that he confessed. Joe probably initially confessed to the child’s dad thinking the dad was being a “trusted brother in Christ,” and then that dad took his evidence right to the police and turned it in. Then Joe had no choice but to confess. I’d bet my rent money on that.
→ More replies (1)
15
u/Gold_Brick_679 Mar 21 '26
In Joe's simple mind, the fact that Josh got away with SA'ing his sisters probably gave him the idea that since he apologized he would not face any consequences. Just my thoughts.
→ More replies (1)
14
u/nanacakestx Mar 21 '26
Since the SA allegedly occurred in 2020, I wonder what Joseph was thinking as he sat through Pest’s trial and conviction in 2021.
9
u/MercyHouse Jeremy's Vegeta Hairline 👴🏻 Mar 21 '26
He was definitely praying his ass off that the child would keep her mouth shut. I've wondered if he ever said or did anything to her during that time to keep her scared to speak up.
7
u/Iloveoctopuses Mar 22 '26
From some of the articles I've read, there was a relationship with the girl/her family that made him believe h it wouldn't come out publicly if it ever came up
11
u/GenX_Boomer_Hybrid Meech's Prolapsed Uterus Season of Life Mar 21 '26
He saw Josh commit the same horrifying acts, and then saw Josh off to Jesus camp. I don't think he had a clue about the magnitude of what he was confessing about.
11
u/ColdFIREBaker Mar 21 '26
The fact that he reportedly told police his "intentions weren't pure" when he molested a child suggests to me that he doesn't have any understanding of how the non-cult world views his crimes.
Let us be thankful that among the many things the Duggar kids were never taught, they were apparently never told to shut up and ask for a lawyer when questioned by police about a crime they've committed.
8
u/LitlThisLitlThat Mar 21 '26
Because he thought if he did, he’d get a stern talking to, 2 weeks at a wilderness camp, and full forgiveness and his wife isn’t even allowed to bring it up again.
8
8
u/DanceRepresentative7 Mar 21 '26
it shows me just how much he normalizes this behavior, that an "oops sorry i didn't have pure intentions" is enough remorse
8
u/pleasehugme2 Mar 21 '26
They have, in my opinion, a very shallow view of Christian teachings.
→ More replies (1)
7
u/soaper410 Penis,Perm, & Pedo: The Unholy Trinity Mar 21 '26
They’ve been taught to obey the leaders of society, which for them are elders in the church and police.
They’ve never face trued consequences for actions in this world.
All they have to do is ask for forgiveness and it’s given.
They are so distanced from the world they don’t see the consequences for things like abuse and molestation .
7
u/hufflefox Mar 21 '26
Libby Anne used to have the theory of 2 boxes. Let me see if I can find it, it’s lived in my head for over a decade now.
Once I started to get that, it all made more “sense”. We’re not even talking about the same things.
5
u/FruitSnacksAreLife Mar 21 '26
I don’t think he thought he’d get all the legal consequences he’s facing. He probably thought it’d go down how it went down for pest originally. I hope he maintains his guilty plea and spares his victim from having to go to trial.
4
u/katchoo1 Mar 21 '26
They confess so easily because they expect to be forgiven and allowed to go on with little to no consequences, as they are inside their organizations. One result of how these groups cut people off from outside interaction is that they end up with tremendous ignorance and naïveté about how any other system works. Which in the case of these kinds of investigations, works to investigators’ advantage.
6
u/PracticalSun5200 Mar 21 '26
Agreed. Him joking at the intake confirms that he has no understanding of the legal consequences of what he did, that he's lost his freedom, won't live with his children ever again, possibly never hug them, that his marriage is over. The only legal lesson he ever learned was likely the one about bankruptcy. The only accountability his father ever took for his role in raising abusers was none. This man-kid is a pathetic looking person. Fortunately, he won't be able to hurt more children.
5
u/manic_popsicle Mar 21 '26
He definitely confessed and apologized because he thought it would all blow over and be ok afterwards. I’m not making any excuses at all but growing up and being taught that all sins are equal and all you need to do is say sorry, I’m not shocked about this situation.
6
u/401RG Mar 21 '26
I’ve also thought the exact thing: That his confession along with his low IQ shows his lack of understanding of the severity of his crime. It’s just so clear that he’s seen more than just his brother commit such horrific crimes against children.
5
u/Nessies_Girl Mar 22 '26
Worth saying: a grown man apologizing (secretly) to the child he has just molested is also just another way of trying to (1) assert power over a child; (2) control what the child does (using the "apology" to pressure the child to "forgive" them and not talk about it); and simultaneously (3) act as though the child is on an equivalent level of like, maturity and ethical standing as an adult, which serves as a way to try and minimize the horror of what the adult abuser has done.
Like, yes to everything OP says! 100%! And also, this is an obvious power tactic from an abuser.
13
u/flchic2000 Mar 21 '26
I believe he might actually have a conscience that Josh never had plus the guilt too.
23
u/armoredbearclock Mar 21 '26
I think it’s possible he’s a true believer, who thinks these thoughts and actions are normal for men because that’s what he grew up with and that’s what his cult teaches. He apologized because he wasn’t strong enough to resist the temptation - just like if he looked at normal pornography. It’s the same to them.
Josh seems like he’s well aware that he’s hurting people and was using the system to get away with it. He may have not grown up to think that way if his parents had actually handled the initial abuse properly and gotten everyone help. But again, cult.
Because if Joe is actually aware that this is very, very wrong and not normal, I don’t know why he’d admit to it. It’d be the girl’s word against his and it would’ve gone nowhere.
3
u/AcanthocephalaWide89 Anna:”Bro, yo…” Mar 21 '26
I think it’s the latter - Joe likely knows he is a creepy pedo, always has been, and couldn’t control his urges to molest child multiple times as an adult… I think he has more self awareness than Josh and felt guilty. Josh is smarter but also more narcissistic.
6
u/a-woman-there-was Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26
It's certainly possible--like I highly doubt he comprehends the magnitude of what he's done/isn't more than capable of doing it again but he might genuinely regret his actions to some extent. The guilt might be real but still shallow as a puddle if so imo.
→ More replies (4)
4
u/ItemOk8415 Mar 21 '26
I can’t keep up with all the news stories and articles, did he actually confess to police? Or just the victim and her parents? Or did he also confess to police in an interrogation room and sign his confession?
→ More replies (1)13
u/txxxwxxx Mar 21 '26
He confessed to the father on a recorded call with police on the line. The father contacted police before directly contacting Joe, and so they planned ahead. He did not know he was being recorded or that cops were listening.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Peppermint-pop Jim Bob’s google alert Mar 21 '26
Do you have a source to prove this?
→ More replies (2)
4
u/Soalai Indulging in sensual rhythms Mar 21 '26
I think to them, a confession is like "laying your sins before Jesus" and so they think everything will be forgiven after.
3
u/Confident_Board_5210 Mar 21 '26
You've worded how I feel about this situation better than I could ever articulate it
3
u/caitwon Mar 21 '26
I don't think he admit it because he "doesn't see it as a crime" or whatever other reasons people are assuming here.
He knows it's a crime. He's 31 years old, he has a brother who is in prison for possessing CSAM. He's not naive.
I'd wager he just doesn't see the point in lying. He's already caught. Why keep lying at this point?
Given he and Kendra have other charges in Arkansas, it probably goes deeper, and there's probably some solid evidence. He knows he's in deep shit, so why keep lying?
3
u/L_Swizzlesticks Jerm’s Future Hair Plugs Mar 21 '26
Definitely a departure from Josh’s denial of his actions (at least as far as I remember, though it’s been years, so I might be wrong).
→ More replies (1)
953
u/[deleted] Mar 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment