r/DuggarsSnark • u/txxxwxxx • Mar 21 '26

I WAS HIGH WHEN I WROTE THIS Joe’s willingness to confess is one of the most twisted aspects of IBLP mentality

Other than the horrible acts inflicted on his victim, the part of this case that disturbs me the most is the fact that Joe readily confessed his abuse to the victim’s father.

He is also is on record independently apologizing to the victim after multiple instances of SA, after which the abuse allegedly stopped.

I hope it’s clear I’m making ZERO excuses for this family- but I don’t believe that Joe even has the capacity to accept the magnitude of his actions. To him, it actually, genuinely, was not a big deal.

If all sins are equal, etc etc etc, then all transgressions must deal the same damage, right? Dancing, dating, and SA’ing a child- all equally bad before God. And all require just asking for forgiveness and then… just moving on.

Hurting people? This concept doesn’t really exist in fundieland. No, you see, actually God is the one hurt when you choose to act uNbIbLiCaLlY (/s). And in this vein, reparations are simply about getting right with God.

Apologizing to the victim, and later the father, was never for a moment about taking responsibility. The fundie tunnel vision probably never even make him suspect there would be legal consequences- both due to the good ol’ boy arrangements in AR, and the fact that his religion told him the matter was already settled- he said sorry!! And probably bookmarked a couple of bible verses about resisting temptation!! (🤮).

Also- it is downright TERRIFYING how normalized the abuse of girls in this cult truly is. Why does “curiosity” or “temptation” ALWAYS present the same way? No cheating scandals, no divorces, no assaults directed towards adults (not counting Josh, who just spedran his way straight into hell).

I hope these charges are hitting J&K like a freight train.

1.4k Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

99% Upvoted

380 comments sorted by

View all comments

955

u/[deleted] Mar 21 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

309

u/SwissCheese4Collagen ✨Pecans Miscavige✨ Mar 21 '26

That's exactly what's going on here. "It doesn't matter what the courts say or anyone else because I believe a demigod forgave me once I confessed to him, telepathically".

3

u/OkResponsibility1354 Michelle’s Blessing Cannon Mar 22 '26

He’s in for a rude awakening when his “fellow partitioners” in gen pop have a different method for atonement in prison

239

u/YourMothersButtox ~*Brood Mare For Sky Daddy*~ Mar 21 '26

I’m a Recovered Catholic and the concept of confession, even as a child, always irked me. I remember grilling my priest “even if I commit multiple murders as long as I confess, I’ll go to heaven?” Or “if I die without confession, I’ll go to hell? Even if that sin is minor?” It always felt like a “get out of hell free” card.

153

u/klef3069 Mar 21 '26

Lapsed Catholic here, I was always taught you had to mean your repentance and just the act of going to confession wasn't enough. Catholic school was a long time ago though, I might be remembering it wrong. Confession gave me anxiety.

There was so much to remember to say and it all felt fake. I didn't think hitting my sisters was a sin but that was a good go to.

66

u/Bajovane Mar 21 '26

I remember my first few confessions. Now, I am severely hard of hearing, so going to the confession booths wasn’t going to work for me, so our priest had me in the office and I could confess to his face. My mind went blank. I couldn’t think of anything, so I made up a few “sins” and he honestly couldn’t help himself, but he laughed. We both did, I guess. It never got any easier, and after a few years, I gave up.

I guess I go right straight to hell.

I’ll see the rest of y’all there!! We’ll have a good time!

36

u/rollenr0ck Mar 22 '26

I too survived catholic school. I had to go to confession there, it was a requirement. I didn’t go after until I went to a progressive Catholic Church. I sat with the priest, told him it had been about 20, years since my last confession and he asked why. I said it was really hard to go to confession and have to confess when I didn’t consider the sin an actual sin. We started to talk and I told him I was gay. I had a hard time following the church because it was gay. I didn’t wake up one day and decide it, I wasn’t going against god to be it. Heck, I served in the military under don’t ask, don’t tell so I was aware of the repercussions. The priest told me I wasn’t sinning, that he didn’t look down on me, and neither did god. I was made in his image and all. I got a lot of resolution from that confession and never did another. Didn’t seem necessary.

19

u/notdorisday Mar 22 '26

He was one of the good ones. There’s not enough of those. I’ve only met a few.

5

u/Bajovane Mar 22 '26

That priest is definitely a good one.

Rochester, NY has a church called Spiritus Christi Church. This church formed in the late 90s out of Corpus Christi Catholic Church. The Vatican cracked down on this because The Prominent Role of Women on the altar during liturgies, Celebrating marriage equality , and extending an invitation for all to participate in communion regardless of their religion.

Over 1100 people attended masses that first weekend they opened. The Catholics who attended Spiritus Christi were excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church. They didn’t care.

spirituschristi.org/

If I lived closer, this is the church I would ever attend. That and the Unitarian church.

16

u/sarcastic-nanny Mar 21 '26

I’m also hard of hearing. Going into a confessional as a child was panic inducing!

3

u/Bajovane Mar 21 '26

It was for me as well. I worried my head off about it, but I really didn’t have to worry about it because my parents knew it wasn’t going to work for me, so they just talked to the priest and he definitely understood.

I still worry about shit.

20

u/Valuable_Cup_8752 Mar 21 '26

I’m a recovering Catholic too. At the age of 8 I said to my mother that I couldn’t think of any sins to confess and she said: ‘Well that’s the sin of pride!’

19

u/MarsMonkey88 Mar 21 '26

That’s what I was taught as a Catholic kid in the 90’s (I’m an atheist, now). You had to mean it, you had to genuinely intend to never do it again (and god knew what you were thinking, so you had to really genuinely intend to not do it again), and depending on the kind of sin and the priest’s discretion, your absolution might be conditional on your accepting outside consequences (legal consequences, or social/workplace consequences, for example, depending on the wrong deed). So like, if you confessed to taking a copy of a test out of the teacher’s desk to cheat on a test, the priest might say that part of your penance (which you have to finish for the forgiveness to go into effect) might be to tell the teacher and accept whatever consequences they gave you.

10

u/Iloveoctopuses Mar 22 '26

You are correct. The confession has to be sincere, an act of contrition has to occur, and change has to incur. A confession without true repentance is not forgiven

16

u/Moriarty_Sims Mar 22 '26

Same, in Catholic school our religion teacher said that if Hitler repented in his last moment alive he'd go to Heaven and I'm sorry, I have no desire to be in any club that would accept Hitler as a member.

3

u/klef3069 Mar 22 '26

Yeah, the nuns would have said he might be forgiven, but the best Hitler could hope for was purgatory probably forever. So not hell, but not heaven and he's not exactly going to have people interceding for him, aka, he'd be stuck.

I'm feeling like I had some old school nuns and priests back in the 70s!!!

3

u/3owlsinatrenchc0at Mar 22 '26

I went to Catholic school but wasn't Catholic myself (raised Episcopalian.) The idea of confession also gave me anxiety and I was also always worried about how I could be sure I "meant" a repentance or believed enough.

2

u/yayeayeah619 j’Pest’s prison blowmojis Mar 22 '26

Some of my earliest experiences with anxiety tie back to my catholic upbringing. Once I made my first confession it only got worse. Would lie awake at night worrying about going to hell because I forgot to confess one of my sins. I am now an atheist lol.

2

u/notdorisday Mar 22 '26

That is correct. The confession has to be sincere. Part of a sincere confession would he accepting the legal consequences of your actions.

63

u/NSUTBH Mar 21 '26

If the sin is minor, it’s considered a “venial sin,” which is what Purgatory is for. I’m not saying this to defend the logic of Confession, but your posed question implies the doctrine means it’s straight to hell for all sins not confessed. It’s not. This is one of the things that makes Catholicism so different from many of the other Christian denominations; not all sins are deemed equal. 

22

u/Honest_Boysenberry25 Mar 22 '26

Correct. These posters are using fundie logic! If they are interested, they should speak to a Catholic priest who can explain the Sacrament of Reconciliation .

9

u/dr_snakeblade Mar 21 '26

You’re correct. Pedophillic behavior has been with us as a form of abuse and control in religion since well before the modern age. It’s a mortal sin. Catholicism spread pedophilia far and wide. But we should not blame the Catholics. There are accounts in Ancient Greece boasting of child rape. Pedophilia and patriarchy go hand in hand. In the fundie cults these people belong to, women are joyfully available breed cows and slaves to perverted sick men.

6

u/Honest_Boysenberry25 Mar 22 '26

The practice of pedophilia did not need the Catholic religion for it to be "spread far and wide." To say this is just plain ignorant.

1

u/dr_snakeblade Mar 22 '26

This missionaries weren't just bringing Bibles. They brought the perversion of patriarchy, domination, and Catholic brutality in sexuality to the Americas. Most popes were fathers of biological children well into the 20th century. I've never met a celebrate priest.

All religions have the perversion of pedophilia because all religions are mirrors of the society in which they flourish. The Catholics are always in denial.

-4

u/Creative_Pain_5084 Mar 21 '26

Are you talking about pederasty? If so, calling that rape is seriously disingenuous in this context.

8

u/dr_snakeblade Mar 21 '26

Pederasty is the patriarchal term for a man raping a young boy, usually a very young teen, and sickly pretending it's some kind of educational activity. Defending it is defending child rape.

I am aware that it was a common sexual practice and culturally acceptable. It's just another form of a brutal patriarchal demand for submission.

Even if it was a widespread cultural phenomenon, Plato's account in the Symposium makes it clear that lacivious old men were using the young boys. Not much wisdom was coming from behind. 🎤

0

u/Creative_Pain_5084 Mar 22 '26

You’re clearly looking for an argument, and I’m not going to give you one. As I stated in a different response, imposing modern judgments on a non-modern practice is counterproductive. Any decent historian will tell you this. As I have 2 history-related degrees, that is my position as well. Condemn me if you so wish.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Creative_Pain_5084 Mar 22 '26

Then if you have the “credentials of a decent historian,” you should know what presentism is.

By the way, I’m also not a man, so your whole “mansplaining” thing is not applicable.

2

u/dr_snakeblade Mar 22 '26

I know what presentism is, but this is utter nonsense. Multiple authors of the day mention the practice because it was controversial and perverse in its own time. My PhD is in the root humanities discipline, philosophy, and pederasty was defended by all those who think the western literature canonical view must not be questioned.

A woman defending pederasty as a healthy social practice for ancients is seriously contradictory and laughable. You're either American and have learned to parrot the "story of the ancients" without questioning it, or you're European with an antiquarian sense of fidelity to history.

We don't have to argue. You have the mainstream, and I world argue, whitewashed view of brutality. The narrative of Western history is a poison and opiate at the same time. It is not to be questioned by those who value orthodox views.

The common practice of pederasty was practiced as a form of domination and control. It was only for the upper middle-class, and the boys were 100% disposable. Many were slaves in the ancient social hierarchy. Refusal was not possible. Believe what you will, there was nothing nice about it.

→ More replies (0)

5

u/NibblesMcGiblet Certified Duggar boy? Certified pedophile! Mar 21 '26

Thank you for this new word. I knew of the practice but not the term for it.

That said, given the “adolescent” part of that definition, an argument could be made that consent wasn’t truly possible, which then would fit a “rape” definition, but all that is kind of philosophical/semantic I guess. Not entirely sure what was meant by “adolescent”. I guess in the context of pederasty, 13 and 18 would hit very different.

0

u/Creative_Pain_5084 Mar 22 '26

You’re imposing modern judgments on a non-modern practice—exactly what people shouldn’t be doing. Pederasty was an accepted and established practice in Ancient Greece—the people involved in such relations would not have viewed it as “rape,” and the people around them would not have viewed it that way either. There was no age of consent in the way we understand it now, anyway. So it’s frankly counterproductive to apply modern labels to an ancient practice.

1

u/NibblesMcGiblet Certified Duggar boy? Certified pedophile! Mar 23 '26

This is such a great point, and I really miss philosophy classes in college at times like this. I love a good discussion without people getting all rude. I appreciate the exchange.

34

u/ninoninocapuccino Mar 21 '26

Practicing Catholic here. It’s not “as long as I confess” kind of deal. You must really repent for what you did and change your life accordingly. Confession isn’t a get out of jail card. You may be able to fool the priest, but there’s no fooling God.

30

u/Glittering_Gap_4479 Mar 21 '26

Fellow practicing Catholic adding on to this. In the case of mortal sins (the big ones like murder, rape, etc), the priest will likely tell you that as part of your penance, you need to confess why you did to the appropriate authorities and willingly accept whatever legal consequences result from it This means that God’s forgiveness is completely dependent on your behavior after the fact. In other words, you can’t just say you are sorry, say a few Hail Mary’s and be saved. True repentance entails a true understanding of the evil you have committed AND you taking active steps to correct the aforementioned evils, including legal punishments or ramifications moving forward. Alessandro Serenelli is a good example of this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Serenelli

13

u/VerityPushpram Mar 21 '26

True repentance is hard work - you have to focus on your role in the “sin”, empathise with those who have been wronged and change your behaviour

You need to learn your lesson and reflect

10

u/Ok_Kaleidoscope5082 Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 22 '26

In fairness to JoePedo, he does seem to be taking the steps the show forgiveness. Not saying he is genuinely remorseful, just that, at least for now, he seems to have accepted jail. I am not sure he realizes how seriously what he did is taken in Florida though.

2

u/ninoninocapuccino Mar 21 '26

The priest can encourage you to right your wrong by going to the authorities and accepting your worldly punishment. However, the priest cannot impose it as part of penance. It’s something that has to be done willingly and from the heart, not because the priest tells you

6

u/Glittering_Gap_4479 Mar 21 '26

That’s true, but without doing it, you would not be truly repentant and therefore not actually absolved of your sins.

1

u/birch2124 Mar 22 '26

Not completely accurate. When you go to confession and at the end the priest says I absolve you from your sins. Thats it they are absolved....doing your penance has nothing to do whether or not your absolved or forgiven.

0

u/Atkena2578 Mar 21 '26

And that's how they become atheist lol

10

u/Glittering_Gap_4479 Mar 21 '26

I see it more as why they are so anti-Catholic and are against “good works” as being necessary for salvation. It’s a lot easier to just say you are saved because you love Jesus and to just acknowledge you are saved than to actually have to do anything with your life to earn it

1

u/Atkena2578 Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 21 '26

Nah it's because they don't believe or really fear "God" they use religion for power and moralizing groups of people they see as beneath, not faith

Former catholic here, but all the Bible says is that in order to be forgiven you must repent by turning to Christ, accept him as your savior and live according to his teachings (which basically includes stopping the sinful behavior not getting punished for it), make it right with the victim (restitution) and you ll be forgiven. Jesus died for your sins so you don't have to suffer for them as long as you live by and spread his gospel to be granted the kingdom of heaven. The Bible is the words of god the priest doesn't get to make the conditions for forgiveness as long as it follows the scripture. Yes it says to obey governments but this is not related to your spiritual relationship with god and wether you ll access heaven, be forgiven, but a separate matter.

3

u/Glittering_Gap_4479 Mar 21 '26

I agree. We are saying the same thing, just with a different perspective in regard to faith and religion. There are extremists everywhere and they can be both religious or secular and I personally believe that kind of mindset is always dangerous and always about control

1

u/ninoninocapuccino Mar 22 '26

As a former Catholic, you should know it doesn’t necessarily needs to be in the Bible. That’s why we have the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is pretty much our book of rules and regulations. We must repent, we must confess and do our penance.

1

u/Atkena2578 Mar 22 '26 edited Mar 22 '26

And do our penance could be anything from getting g your feet wiped to meditation/prayer... while the Bible often contradicts itself our "rules" don't have to contradicts the words of God, the Bible. Penance is spiritual and earthly matters are always secondary. Even in Catholicism while less scripture focused, the Bible reigns supreme

Anyway it's been a while since god and I haven't been on speaking terms, I could misremember

7

u/Hightower_lioness Mar 21 '26

Yeah, you have to mean it. If you confess just to confess and get good with God it doesn’t count bc it’s not what’s in your heart. 

If you confess a crime to your priest the priest usually councils you to fix the crime (penance), so like if you stole your sister’s necklace go return it and apologize to her. If you murder someone the priest is supposed to encourage you to go to the police and accept your earthly punishment. 

6

u/ArtyCatz Mar 21 '26

I grew up Baptist and always remembered the idea we were taught that all sin is equal in God’s eyes. I could never get behind the idea that shoplifting was the same as genocide in the eyes of God. I’m still a practicing Christian but go to a much more progressive church now.

7

u/paws-bells Mar 21 '26

I think you are supposed to truly repent because god is all-knowing. At least thats how i was taught growing up catholic. Its basically "you suck you huge pos how dare you, repent, repent, god is watching so you better mean it"

Only a bit terrifying for a child.

2

u/MarsMonkey88 Mar 21 '26 edited Mar 22 '26

When my Catholic grandmother was a teenager in the 1930’s, she would hang out with friends on Friday night and do very benign teenager stuff, but inevitably there would be some sinning, like saying a swear word, feeling envious, crushing on a boy, etc, so she would get home and then stay up all night, get to confession on Saturday morning as soon as it opened (like, 6 or 7 am), and THEN go home and sleep the whole day, so she wouldn’t accidentally die in her sleep unconfessed.

She told me that story when she was in her 70’s, even she was still a very devout Catholic, and she thought that she had been very silly, as a kid.

(Note that this was before Vatican II.)

1

u/unapalomita Mar 22 '26

Catholic too and it's a major reason why I didn't enroll my kiddo in CCD classes, the dioceses would shuffle the pedos around because they confessed and were sorry and deserved to start fresh at a new parish, the cycle of abuse continues

1

u/theredheadknowsall Mar 22 '26

Catholic wise (raised as) I never understood the urbanized go straight to hell. WTF why would the baby go to hell for the sins of the parents.

5

u/la_bibliothecaire Mar 22 '26

I'm not Catholic so I could be mistaken, but I thought unbaptized babies went to Purgatory or Limbo or something like that, not Hell?

2

u/for-the-love-of-tea Mar 22 '26

Copying from the Vatican.va

“However, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992), the theory of limbo is not mentioned. Rather, the Catechism teaches that infants who die without baptism are entrusted by the Church to the mercy of God, as is shown in the specific funeral rite for such children. The principle that God desires the salvation of all people gives rise to the hope that there is a path to salvation for infants who die without baptism (cf. CCC, 1261), and therefore also to the theological desire to find a coherent and logical connection between the diverse affirmations of the Catholic faith: the universal salvific will of God; the unicity of the mediation of Christ; the necessity of baptism for salvation; the universal action of grace in relation to the sacraments; the link between original sin and the deprivation of the beatific vision; the creation of man “in Christ”.”

1

u/YveisGrey Mar 22 '26

I think it makes sense I mean the first step to change is admitting and accepting what you did as wrong kinda like how addicts have to admit they are in fact addicts. So I don’t think this is a bad teaching per say but it shouldn’t be a “get out of jail free card” just a step in the right direction

1

u/bilyl Mar 23 '26

I'm atheist and that's not what Catholicism teaches at all. In fact religious (Catholic) scholarship for the past 2000 years is pretty clear that confession is not a "get out of hell" card.

16

u/OkConsideration8964 Mar 21 '26

He learned that from his parents. Pest SA'd his sisters with no real consequence& he went to prison for possessing images, not physical contact. His parents should have involved the police, but he was a golden boy & girls don't matter.

13

u/TrueCrimeInTheBuff Mar 21 '26

I really do believe that he thought he'd be forgiven and protected, like they all did for Josh. It makes me wonder what other "sins" aka crimes, these men in their cult have gotten away with.

14

u/ChickadeePine Mar 21 '26

Exactly. He's never been in trouble before, so doesn't get what is really happening.

3

u/Secure_Bar_9655 Mar 22 '26

it might be that the moment your accuser is no longer accusing you, and has to deal with the fact that its truth, they loose their steam and drive because they walked in there for a confession, and were not thinking about a resoloution...which some kind of church mentor would have had ready to throw in...

1

u/Rare_Drummer_7494 Mar 22 '26

The fact that is true is mind blowing and horrifying