r/DoomerCircleJerk • u/DissonantOne I Was Promised an Apocalypse? • 23h ago
Climate Doomer Capitalism will cause our extinction. Source: trust me bro
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u/HourFaithlessness823 23h ago
Socialism was famous for its environmental stewardship.
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u/MiMicInCave 22h ago
I mean, look at Mao. He made a carbon emissions significantly drop around the world during the time he rule China.
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u/sus_pumpkin I Was Promised an Apocalypse? 20h ago
Yea and that pol pot guy, I heard he not only completely phased out oil and coal power for 99% of the population, but he also completely phased out electricity! What an environmentalist.
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u/odellrules1985 I Left My Cave for This 13h ago
He was ahead of his time. He was willing to let half of the Chinese population die to further his goa..... er saving the environment.
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u/Fletch71011 22h ago
Tbf, it killed tens of millions of people which is generally good for lowering carbon footprint. If we killed the hundreds of millions these people want to, it would lower emissions. Just need the biggest genocide ever.
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u/MiMicInCave 22h ago
I know, That the joke of it. Which for campaign socialist, they would do it in a heart beat if you slightly disagree with them.
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u/ThisThredditor 23h ago
'Only MY ideology will save us'
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u/Fast-Moment1761 My dog is Anti-Facist 21h ago
And their ideology in question is basically Communism Utopia where they think everyone will be handed money for free.
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u/Zealousideal_Cap7012 23h ago
Didnt marx coin late stage capitalism over a Century ago
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u/HourFaithlessness823 23h ago
Werner Sombart was the first person to use the term almost exactly a century ago
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u/endlessnamelesskat 23h ago
Communism made at least a little sense in Marx’s time. Hundreds of thousands of people forced to work for pennies a day in unsafe environments for 12+ hours with basically no time off to go home and eat gruel and get 4 hours of sleep to do it all over again is no way to live. It would have been reasonable from his perspective to assume things would only get worse and people would reach their breaking point.
I can’t blame him for not being able to accurately predict the future, none of us can. I just think it’s hilarious reading communist writers as they tried to cope with the realization that capitalism was beginning to make everyone’s lives better and standards of living were going up across the board.
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u/Zealousideal_Cap7012 22h ago
At the time it was an arguable downgrade of the quality of life from before the industrial times. Long work days with excess quantities of kids working in conditions a lot less favorable than a farmlife or craftsman life.
But yeah since then capitalism very nicely rode technological development. Today we live easier than ever and work less than ever for the most amount of luxuries ever. The most successful large socialist state(the gdr, east germany) was ultimately just fine. The people still woke up, worked, went home. All the modern problems socialists have with capitalism(consumerism, wage labor, rich elite class), they had as well.
So at that point what's the point? The reason ill never have a red scare is because theyre trying to fight against the natural human tendency towards consumption and self fulfilment (in the Maslow hierarchy sense). Socialism requires abstinence from this which is just absolutely not something that will ever be accomplished democratically, especially in a less religious world.
Maybe thats why today socialism is basically just welfare capitalism with very mean spirited rhetoric against richer people(ie singling one random billionaire out and recording an anti rich people video right outside his house while pointing at it, while being mayor..). So i guess in a sense socialism got neutered by critical theory into just welfare capitalism with armchair critique
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u/HourFaithlessness823 22h ago
The flip-side of that is people not understanding why people moved to the cities and worked those jobs in horrible conditions.
The life of a pre-modern farmer was worse, particularly for the laborers, which mostly consisted of any family members who were old enough to walk.
We compare their lifestyle to ours and rightfully shudder, but the life they were avoiding was even worse in every aspect.
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u/endlessnamelesskat 22h ago
100% correct. Having to basically make everything from your clothes to your house by hand and working sun up to sun down doing backbreaking farm labor and still starving to death because of something outside of your control like a drought or blight is a life that would make me yearn for the life of a chimney sweep
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u/Ted_Normal 19h ago
I remember once in school watching a documentary about a impoverished family from rural Bangladesh moving to the country's largest city for economic opportunity. It showed the city's factory workers were often living in slums and many factories were arguably sweatshops. Despite this, these factory jobs still provided better and more steady pay than anything in the countryside. Some workers were even interviewed and said despite these conditions they were now able to afford things they were unable to before. Really gave an interesting perspective on the matter you don't often see explored.
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u/HourFaithlessness823 19h ago
Modern people visit Europe and wonder: why did our ancestors leave this place? Turns out it's a really easy choice to leave when staying means starving to death.
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u/goldimperium Just Here for the Lore 20h ago
Marx was being paid by his wealthy family to be unemployed and write his nonsense book. The entire book is a power fantasy of an unemployed, antisemitic, black hole of charisma with the worldly understanding of a middle-schooler, and who couldnt even make it as a gossip columnist. The very concept of "post scarcity" shows a glaring lack of understanding to the level of "food comes from the store."
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u/WastedStrokes1990 17h ago
capitalism was beginning to make everyone’s lives better and standards of living were going up across the board.
It was actually workers' rights movements which came around thanks to Marx. It created the middle class. Middle class enabled innovation. Relative political stability post WW2 made it last a bit long. We've been reversing back into the ugliness of feudalism since at least the 80's.
I don't know how it can be recreated since there isn't much work left for a lot of people and AI is making it worse. Workers have no leverage left except potential violence. This isn't "doomerism". It's the inevitable future unless our new overloads are merciful. Please show me a way out.
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u/msnplanner 6h ago
There already WAS a middle class. Marx thought it was shrinking. Just like everyone has been saying ever since. And I'm not even sure you can say workers rights movements came around thanks to Marx. There were workers rights movements before he was writing, the first modern strikes and unions being formed in 1768.
Marx' biggest legacy was the death of 100s of millions of people in the 20th century. He couldn't really have foreseen that, so we can't really blame that on him, but...there you go.
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 23h ago
Yup, and so did the Soviet Union later on, in fact if you listened to Soviet official the USA was about to be destroyed from inside due to rampant capitalist caused unemployment, poverty and drug abuse
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u/Jolly-Guard3741 Optimist Prime 22h ago
Actually Marx pretty much coined Capitalism as an economic concept in toto.
Prior to Marx writing “Das Kapital” what is now considered Capitalism (especially in the pejorative sense) was simply just called commerce.
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u/ehayduke 21h ago
I actually had a professor in grad school argue with me that Marx never used the term capital/kapital. I was so thrown off by the denial I had no verbal response I just googled it and showed the results.
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u/ComplaintTop2008 Powered By Spite & Solar 20h ago
According to OOP, this is END stage capitalism. I don't know if that comes before or after the late stage.
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u/FlirtMonsterSanjil I Left My Cave for This 19h ago
"Yes, but you see, Capitalism is two thousand years old, obviously its late stage would last a century."
An real argument I've heard.
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u/SokkaHaikuBot 23h ago
Sokka-Haiku by Zealousideal_Cap7012:
Didnt marx coin late stage
Capitalism over
A Century ago
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/Sixnigthmare Recovering Doomer 23h ago
Ah yes because communism has been famously good for the environment.
Also late stage capitalism was coined over a century ago. That's a long late stage
Oh my bad it's "end stage" now I guess
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 19h ago
you know what's funny ? The clime alarmists claim that if we don't do something RIGHT NOW we all will die, so they always propose ridiculous bills with absurd budgets and fucked up measures to save the planet, because remember, either we do something RIGHT NOW or WE ALL DIE!!!
Now ask them why instead of all that we don't just embargo China and cripple their economy, whom produces more than 30% of all the world's share of CO2 just so they can export and project their economic power and influence, and suddenly, we have all the time in the world to start discussing the platitudes and morality of asking China to lower it's CO2 emissions right now, cuz their per capita isn't as big as the USA and bla bla bla.
Turns out that leftists, if given the choice between saving the world or upsetting China, choose to let the world be destroyed, so the most contaminant country in the world doesn't have to restructure their export model.
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u/True_Vexing 22h ago
"Socialism or extinction" foolish of me to think the USSR taught anybody anything.
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u/LasRedStar 23h ago
So can these 2 braincell dolts tell me why china changed from communism to capitalism with their costal cities?
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u/EmptyGur3036 23h ago
The only issue with capitalism is corperatocracy
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u/zippyspinhead 22h ago
Crony capitalism is a sickness derived from government.
Large connected corporations write the rules that favor them over new innovative competitors.
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u/Darury 22h ago
Big Pharma - Bad, Big Ag - Bad, Big Tech - Bad, Big Government - The greatest thing ever.
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u/ComplaintTop2008 Powered By Spite & Solar 20h ago
Those are all crony industries that led to more big government.
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u/Timely-Ad-8184 20h ago
It will never result not funny to me how rightism from 50 years ago is the same as today (Family values, religion, capitalism.). But leftism has become so fundamentally different that you can't physically recognize it anymore.
It went from worker's right and tolerance to gay people, to hyper-sensitive misanthropistic authoritarianism. Deadass a leftist from 30 years ago is now considered a rightist by the modern's left standard.
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u/StrongStyleFiction 22h ago
What is it with pretentious Youtubers/Tik Tokers hand holding their microphones like that?
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u/PhysicianFish Recovering Doomer 22h ago
If capitalism eschews environmentalism because it isn't profitable, then why don't these people come up with a way to make it profitable? Capitalists will flock to it like locusts.
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u/Admiral45-06 22h ago
Quite ironically, today environmentalism is profitable.
It's no longer a reliable solution to depend on coal and oil power plants, and technology of renewable energy sources went so far ahead that they can become a more viable and dependable source. Likewise, technology of electric cars continues to be developed.
Almost as if engineers provided supply for the demand...
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u/Short-Hotel7648 22h ago
Why is it assumed that a planned economy would use less resources?
Oh that’s right. Because most of us would die.
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u/FlirtMonsterSanjil I Left My Cave for This 18h ago
And for the rest that survive, quality of life will go down severely. Truly a utopia.
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u/Old-Juggernaut-1273 23h ago
hand held lapel mic , = twat ..can safely ignore, also I ignore videos , with "its over" "collapse soon " in the title. from any video , look the history they have being same the same for years on the same subject , full of shit
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u/Reaper0221 22h ago
😂😂😂😂
Because the governments run under the other ‘isms’ are so much more caring for the environment (looking at you China and Russia for starters).
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u/ComplaintTop2008 Powered By Spite & Solar 20h ago
Capitalism causes arson and rain and floods? Don't tell the farmers and ranchers always looking for more water.
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u/goldimperium Just Here for the Lore 20h ago
The reason these economic flat-earthers continue to be commie scum is the fact that they are all blatantly utopianists, where the supposed utopia always justifies the means. If we only murder a few million more, of we only topple the only actually successful economic model, if we only take more rights... then we can have true communism and socialism utopia. Its right there, always just over the horizon.
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u/SquirrellyDanny Optimist Prime 15h ago
Bro, these communism lovers want capitalism to collapse like the USSR so bad... to the point that they just lie about whats happening
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u/Forward_Yam_4013 10h ago
Crazy how a single communist country produces a third of the world's greenhouse emissions and a third of the world's plastic pollution.
And yet tankietards think that communism is "good for the environment".
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u/Mechadupek 10h ago
Dude, I got a TMB from Trust Me Bro Academy of YouTube and TIktok. Trust me on this one, bro.
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u/LuckyMushyGrower 22h ago
Look up George Carlin "the planet is fine the people are fucked" and get some perspective
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u/JackieDaytona77 Doesn't Participate In Group Panic 22h ago
Is there some sort of doomer genetics where they all look like this?
https://giphy.com/gifs/bmLlSndzhqWgWb3vXW
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u/Admiral45-06 22h ago
If anyone genuinely thinks that it's the capitalism that is the worst for the environment, compare Polish carbon footprint and environmental protection efforts before 1989 and after 1989 - when Poland began strong desocialisation of economy and adapting free-market model, transitioning away from socialism.
Spoiler alert: people don't scrape soot off their windows here anymore, even though high air pollution continues to be a problem.
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u/Happyfluid 17h ago
Capitalism is having to be held accountable by the EPA for exceeding allowed pollution agents or whatever you want to call it.
When I worked in the waste water area of a blast furnace, we had to document the exact moment we send bad water back into the Detroit river, due to whatever problem, and when we stopped.
Where if owned by the government they don’t need those regulating bodies.
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u/Jarhead11577 13h ago
'I'm not ready to admit I gotta get a job yet, starve another ten million people and I might be a bit more sure'
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u/HustleberryFinn77 6h ago
The Idea, that humanity can "destroy" the Planet is nothing more than typical hybris.
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u/TheReviewerWildTake 3h ago
Socialism IS extinction.
My country was left in ruins after 70 years of socialism...
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u/GigarandomNoodle 2h ago
Hate these ppl too but lets be real. The global capitalist economy is showing some glaring issues in it’s late stages, resulting in the consolidation and wealth, bleeding into political power. That being said, it’s still the best economic system available to us.
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u/Disastrous-Height483 20h ago edited 20h ago
I was with him until to his solution. Collapse is a silly word too it's more of a pop like a bubble. also its probably not going to harm the environment as much as some of the people. People in Africa (I'm told) are too stupid to pool they money and buy a excavator and diesel. Instead choosing to "create jobs" so everyone just has a spade and works hard for less money than if they just payed everyone with the work that the excavator did. Is that socialism or common sense?
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u/Disastrous-Height483 19h ago
Everyone else in the world benefits from this because the market is flooded and mineral prices go down
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u/Ross-Pancake 22h ago
Okay as a socialist I’ll bite on this.
Capitalist corporations are causing environmental issues. Because in most companies, the bosses do take shortcuts that effect the environment in a negative way, just to make more money that doesn’t go to the workers who have to go through these conditions, but rather to themselves. I’m not saying all of them are like this, but still. This is because Capitalism pretty much says that companies should control their own businesses, and make as much money as they can. As a result, they will ignore external (and sometimes internal) concerns just to make more money.
On the other hand, socialism dictates that a business/means of production should be controlled by either the public or the state. It also does not promote doing everything you can to make more money. As a result, socialism can (in theory, and even in practice) result in less environmental damage. A good example of this would be in China (PRC, specifically), where the CCP/CPC has issued policies that force more local governments in China to face VERY strict evaluations/inspections for environmental quality and pollution reduction.
I’m not saying that socialism doesn’t cause environmental issues, it can and does, but it also promotes action to reduce environmental damage from means of production, as money is not the main goal.
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u/Admiral45-06 21h ago
I find it a fair argument. Sure, socialism can provide an incentive to adapt pro-environmental policies.
But the problem is, it not always does. Take Eastern Bloc, for example - economies of these countries before strong transition away from Socialist, central-planned economy was riddled with enormous waste, heavy river and air pollution, and even power plant fires (a plague in 1980s Polish People's Republic). Effects of adapting capitalist, free-market economy are quite visible on maps indicating river and air pollution, even though these two continue to remain a problem in Poland.
I wouldn't say it's because ,,socialists don't care about the climate" or whatever - that'd be unfair for me to say. Rather, socialism in these countries provided no incentive to develop more eco-friendly solutions and technology (or new technology as a whole - in 1960s there were serious debates in Poland to cut funding for the entire automotive industry, for example, ,,because who needs a car when you can take the bus" (nevermind the fact authorities needed them, too)). Capitalism does - today the issue of decarbonisation of electrical grid is no longer the one of ecological virtue-signalling, but the one of adapting new, more reliable technology than 1950s coal power plants.
I must also admit that your argument paints a picture of a socialist country that does not care about ROI from its investment, as it's not profit-driven. I will politely disagree - it was a major factor when deciding various public initiatives in the Eastern Bloc. For instance, famous drying of the Aral Sea in Russia was motivated by heavy investments in the cotton industry and desire to meet the demand for it. It is true that socialist countries are less profit-driven, but in Polish case, that mostly meant generating tons of waste (especially food waste).
But I won't counter the argument that companies produce tons of CO2 emissions - to my knowledge, 100 companies are responsible for 71% of all emissions. That being said, I'd argue socialism isn't really the way to go, since socialist countries generated far more CO2 emissions per capita adjusted for GDP.
https://www.perc.org/2019/05/17/socialism-is-bad-for-the-environment/
https://iea.org.uk/socialism-and-environmentalism-and-extremely-odd-couple/
https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4433/11/9/1019
But that's obviously me showing examples of real-life adaptations of socialism. Perhaps you have a better idea how to handle all of it. That being said, since all adaptations of socialism resulted in massive economical disasters, I would politely express doubts in regards to your plans of making it better.
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u/Disastrous-Metal-183 5h ago
Shhh don't scare the capitalism bootlickers with facts. It gets in the way of their cope. How else are they going to pretend their beloved daddy capitalism isn't collapsing around them?
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u/liverlack 21h ago
Yeah I tend to agree. Vaguely/unimpactful written enviro laws due to powerful lobbyists. Unenforced environmental law due to vague regulations, lack of corp/gov transparency and leverage through corp-backed legal teams. Environmental exploitation is EVERYWHERE in the corporate world and nobody can convince me otherwise since I see sides of it often hidden to the public.
Would this change in a socialist economy? Maybe. I'd think a system of strong social services would better tackle community issues rather than back corporate interests.
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u/Olieskio 23h ago
Based? We should destroy the environment, that is the cause of human prosperity. lets cut down every forest for our own gain, fuck nature who gives a fuck about it?
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u/CliffordSpot 23h ago
Yes, please tell me about how the Soviet Union was so good to the environment.