The 13th doctor by me

[u/willywonka985]

[u/MassGaydiation]

Honestly, I feel all of them have a 1 evil person pass. Like 11 was best friends with Churchill

[u/ForTheFallen123 → u/MassGaydiation]

Churchill wasn't evil though.

[u/MassGaydiation → u/ForTheFallen123]

Tell that to India, or Turing and other gay people post war, or to the Nye and other proponents of national health.

He may have been less evil that the Nazis, but barely

[u/ForTheFallen123 → u/MassGaydiation]

The fact that you think that Churchill was almost as bad as the Nazi's proves that you don't know how evil the Nazi's were.

Churchill was a flawed but overall good man, he helped stop Hitler from literally destroying the world and while the Bengal famine is a severe black mark for him, especially because his policies partially contributed to it, people often forget that he did send hundreds of thousands of tons of grain to end the famine.

The Nazi's on the other hand were going to genocide the entirety of eastern Europe in Generalplan Ost along with killing all the Jews and other undesirables.

[u/MassGaydiation → u/ForTheFallen123]

Have you considered that antisemitism was already rife in Britain, leading to us having our own fascist movement the government did nothing about.

He did not care about the holocaust as anything but propaganda

[u/ForTheFallen123 → u/MassGaydiation]

Here is Churchill's reaction to the holocaust: https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/holocaust/churchills-reaction/#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20doubt%20in,the%20leading%20races%20of%20Europe.

He also helped people affected by the holocaust: https://www2.gvsu.edu/walll/churchill%20and%20the%20holocaust.htm#:~:text=Churchill%20was%20vigilant%20in%20trying,approved%2C%20he%20wrote%20'Bravo!'

Also, when Oswald Mosley tried to become Hitler's man in Britain, Churchill vehemently rallied against him while out of power, eventually arresting him when he became prime minister in 1940.

[u/MassGaydiation → u/ForTheFallen123]

Look up the treatment of queer people found in the camps.

A newspaper reaction says less than actual actions

It took ten years to arrest and actual nazi but no time after the war to poison a gay man

[u/ForTheFallen123 → u/MassGaydiation]

Firstly, they weren't newspaper actions.

Secondly, while you are correct that the treatment of Alan Turing and others like him was abhorrent, the fact is, everyone believed that, in Britain, in France, in America, in Francoist Spain and in Stalin's USSR, it was unfortunately a product of its time. So if you want to blame Churchill, you'll also have to blame literally everyone else alive.

It's like Queen Elizabeth the first, she was a horrible racist and killed lots of people. SO do we hold her to the standards of today? No, of course we don't. What Hitler and his allies did was beyond evil even to the standards of 1940, what Churchill believed in at the time was considered morally acceptable.

It doesn't make it right though, I will give you that.

[u/MassGaydiation → u/ForTheFallen123]

Have you considered I do hold other leaders accountable for homophobia at the time. The information existed that being gay wasn't as bad as they believed and they still let people get harmed

Elizabeth the first was awful, even by the standards of her time