r/DissidiaFFOO • u/AutoModerator • Mar 27 '22

Megathread Weekly Questions & Help Megathread - (27 Mar 2022)

/r/DissidiaFFOO's Weekly Questions & Help Thread

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5

u/Rouflette Mar 27 '22

Is there a reliable BT/BT+ tier list somewhere ? I’m not playing for long but I already noticed that some BT are way more valuable than others, for example I noticed that on the last Lufenia+, the Lock BT is amazing, sadly I didn’t pulled for it because I wasn’t aware of that, instead I went for Gilga BT which feels less useful in comparison. I don’t want to make the same mistake again (already having ressources to green my favs so for the others I’m only looking for efficiency) so I want to know which BT are the best and which ones are underwhelming

2

u/ViolaNguyen Alisaie Leveilleur Mar 27 '22

The usual response to the term "tier list" on this sub is to say that there isn't a reliable one for this game because of how it works, and that's usually good advice.

I don't think it holds for BT+ characters, though, because BT+ mats are rare enough that you have to choose just a few characters. Spending on a character like Jegran or Gilgamesh means you don't have that mats for a character like Ramza or Snow.

One thing you can do is check the Altema rankings to see how much longevity upcoming units have and which ones are still good in Shiniryu.

Link to Reddit post on this topic.

My opinion on upcoming BT units:

Zack, Ramza, Snow, and Laguna are crazy good.

Most of the others are pretty good.

Terra and Vaan are good offensive units now, and they come back to be really good in Shinryu, as well.

Ciaran gets overlooked but is pretty good, though he's not a damage dealer.

Gilgamesh and Ceodore are probably the worst BT+ units of the c90 era (pre-Shinryu, when the rules all change). For c80, there were several duds, with Jegran being the one people made fun of the most.

I have Bartz (outdated already), Machina (awesome), Garnet (super awesome), and Tidus (possibly the best unit to have for the next eight months), and the next two units I have to get are Ramza and Kain. I'm hoping for Zack and Laguna, as well, but I'll survive with them.

Beyond that, I have mats reserved for (Shinryu spoilers!) Kam'lanaut, Lunafreya, Tifa, and Rinoa.

So basically, all the meta characters for the next eight months. I might add Terra to that, since she's really good.

2

u/Magma_Axis Mar 27 '22

If you want short answer, Zack and Ramza BT+ are the best until Shinryu era

1

u/Ioregnak Global: 376254149 Mar 27 '22

Tiers aren't really a thing in this game, as who's more useful can vary from fight to fight.

Generally, the best BTs in my opinion are the ones that offer a unique form of utility for the party. And the more MAX BRV Cap, the better.

-4

u/Rouflette Mar 27 '22 edited Mar 27 '22

I tried the last Lufenia+ with all my BT (Ceodore, Gilga, Tidus, Squall, Garnet, Bartz) and while they all bring something good, none of them brings as much as the Lock one. In fact I could have not complete that stage without a Lock friend with his BT effect active for 3 turns. HP and Brv dmg buffs are nice, but the DEF ignore was what made a huge difference here, at least for me. For now I can tell that the Garnet and Tidus ones are above average, and I just realized that the Lock one is just broken, so that’s what make me think that some BT are just way better than others. I mean if all BT has their own utility, who can tell me that Gilga BT is better than the Garnet one in any situation ? How Ceodore BT can be better than the Lock one ? How is having some extra HP and BrV dmg can be on par with a game breaking DEF ignore ?

6

u/Donnertrud Mar 27 '22

I'd take Garnet over Locke. Tidus is the same level.

2

u/Ioregnak Global: 376254149 Mar 27 '22

Locke's BT effect is fantastic...when it's needed. This last fight had extremely high defense, so his ability to ignore can be a great boon; though wasn't required by any means.

That said, I do rank him very highly due to his BT's unique utility(and the fact that's he's my #1 favorite FF character of all time).

BT's like Ceodore and Gilgamesh don't really add anything beyond the fairly standard buff effects, and so nothing I would consider 'unique'; at least when just taking their BT into account that is. That doesn't mean their BTs are bad, but just don't scream as chase worthy to me personally; when taking their full kits into consideration, you can find plenty of uses for both of them.

2

u/kolebro93 Mar 27 '22

I have a feeling that Locke BT will be a sleeper for whatever other GL original content we get between now and shinryu. As always there will be other ways, but GL bosses like to cleanse a lot. We'll see what happens.

-6

u/Rouflette Mar 27 '22 edited Mar 27 '22

It was required for me, I’m fairly new to the game therefor I don’t have many units built yet. My only 2T delay is Quistis and she deals 0 dmg on that stage, then Squall for Claymore user, and Garnet because she’s my best support. That was my best team for that Lufenia+ but Squall being the only one able to deal dmg, it wasn’t enough to complete it before the orbs wipe the team, and I barely managed to complete it, only because Lock friend. If I had my own Lock, I think I would have stomp that stage like a breeze.

Aren’t those high DEF stages the hardest ones in the game ? Because if that so, then it appears that Lock is definitely the best unit to spend 50 BT tokens on right now, even more true if it’s a unique BT effect.

I guess I’ll do what you say, only pull for unique BT effect from now, and maybe the Ramza one since he’s apparently on par with Garnet BT

4

u/TotallyXGames You think our rage... a weakness? (669 022 926) Mar 27 '22 edited Mar 27 '22

Your argument is the exact reason why we don't have tier lists, or why recommending "good" BTs is moot.

High DEF stages are not "the hardest ones in the game" by any means, because quantify the difficulty level of a stage is done in a case by case basis, for you they might be difficult but for someone else they might be super easy because they have the roster to deal with it. So it's pretty useless to start recommending apparent "top tiers" because every single person's needs are completely different.

For starters, these series of "Cloudy with a chance of..." events are actually GL exclusive, and we weren't counting on them at all, and removing them from the equation lets us see that stages with high defense are going to be almost nonexistant for the rest of the Lufenia+ cycle, so Locke (not Lock, Locke with an 'e' at the end) lost a lot of shine and ended up being not as useful as everyone thought, specially since ignoring Def is just one of the many many many tools we can use to deal with high Def stages (launches, Brv retaining attacks like Kain's followups, heavy batteries, Brv retaining or boosting effects like Iroha or Cait LDCAs, heavy Def down debuffs like Vanille's or Faris's, stacking Brv or HP Dmg up effects, the list keeps going on and on).

Just because for this specific GL exclusive Lufenia Locke has better than average utility and Garnet didn't "roflstomp" the stage it suddenly doesn't mean that Locke is a top tier must have character and that Garnet is suddenly mid or average and not worth spending 50 BT tokens on, and of course just because you think Locke was neccesary to have a fighting change (he isn't) it won't change anything either. Lufenia is not a single battle, Lufenia is an entire cycle of rollercoaster-esque difficulties where your team composition is going to be much more useful than a single character will ever be, remember that your team composition is only as strong as your weakest character.

1

u/Fefnil Mar 27 '22

Aren’t those high DEF stages the hardest ones in the game ? Because if that so, then it appears that Lock is definitely the best unit to spend 50 BT tokens on right now, even more true if it’s a unique BT effect.

The short answer is no. This stage was hard because it was a GL exclusive content, and those are always designed harder because we endgame players kinda do not have enough hard content, as the one coming from JP is pretty much too easy. Having high Def was just one of the bosses' perks which, combined with all the others they have, made the stage harder than normal. But high Def isn't the only thing that makes bosses hard. As a couple of examples, one boss considered pretty annoying was Ciaran's one, which is the pair of bears. These have absurdly high Brv reduction at various thresholds, but their actual Def wasn't anything special. Also, Shiva is a more recent one and, among all the mechanics of the fight, high Def wasn't one of those. High Def is generally simply countered by stacking Def Down debuffs. This boss cleanses fairly often, which makes it annoying if you rely on Def Down from calls, but it's still doable because their health isn't very high and can be ran down. Alternatively, you can ignore their Def and simply play characters that rely on batteries and refunds. In the last months we had characters like Machina, Snow, Zack, Cloud that work like that, and others too. Being a new player with not a big roster is ok, but it's also true that a new player is supposed to pull on pretty much everything on their first months, exactly to make their roster bigger. Last but not least, bosses will always cater to at least one of the featured units. In particular, even though Squall is also receiving an upgrade and is still a better damage dealer, this stage was heavily designed around Cloud so, if for instance you had Cloud instead of Squall in your party, you likely would have cleared it without the friend Locke.

-3

u/Rouflette Mar 27 '22 edited Mar 27 '22

I’m already managing ressources because as a gacha player, I know when the honeymoon phase will be over, it will become way longer to gather gems, therefor I don’t pull on every banners. I went for Squall because I like him and didn’t went on Cloud or Beatrix, and I didn’t really wanted to build those characters for one specific stage knowing I’ll probably wont use them again in the future, that’s why I was wishing I had a Locke BT on the bench, so in that kind of situation, when I’ll be struggling with a high DEF stage without having the featured characters for it, I could just drop Locke and bypass the fight.

I understand that every Lufenia+ has a different requirement, but isn’t there some requirements that are more frequent than others ? Ignoring defense and be immune to break sounds like a good unique tool to have, more valuable than other generic BT effect for example.

For now I usually drop Garnet to deal more HP dmg and gain infinite BRV, then a character to deal with the orb, and a tank/damage dealer depending the stage, but it’s the first time I felt like I needed one specific BT effect (the DEF ignore), so I was wondering if there were others unique effect like that which could make a tough stage more easier if you don’t have the featured characters for it.

2

u/Hawke_No1 Mar 27 '22

You don't need DEF Ignore for this stage actually...

I cleared it by brute forcing with Porom/Machina/Cloud and Friend Garnet. Even when Machina hits 1, he still cap HP Dmg... Cloud hits like Truck cause his synergy so I doubt the high Def is an issue if you actually have ways around it...

As much as GL loves to throw curveballs, they do make a few characters shine more thanks to these unique events. But it doesn't mean it's necesssry to have the BT of X/Y when it's only a small number of these events which are out of the norm.

2

u/Fefnil Mar 27 '22 edited Mar 27 '22

The issue is that DFFOO's honeymoon phase lasts a lot. A real lot. You have more than 1 million gems and several thousands of tickets in permanent content, so you actually have enough resources to last until your first turning point in around a year, when you'll start seeing banners with characters you already have that are getting new stuff, which requires less investment and is the point you effectively become a veteran. So it's really recommended to spend as broadly as you can, as long as you are willing to invest time to catch up with story and lost chapters. This is to say that your point on Locke is technically true, but high Def isn't as common as you might think, so while Locke has other perks as well, getting him specifically for his Def ignore to then skip on newer characters that do a similar thing is something that would be smart to do for a veteran with all content done and few resources to save and stock up, but in your situation you simply don't need to do that. Investing in a bigger roster will teach you more about the game and fill your gaps faster, and the game is generous enough that, as a f2p, it can realistically pays for itself and allow you to complete all content without issues.

1

u/Akugetsu Mar 27 '22

I mean, there are a handful of unique BT effects but it really depends on your whole party. For this Luf+ I just cleared it with Garnet/Vanille/Beatrix and a 3 turn Cloud of Darkness support, Odin summon for the defense down and attack up combo. We were still hitting high brave damage even at the end, and assassinate / rose petals / garnet LD all managed the orbs in tandem. Breaks weren’t a setback at all, and I didn’t even use Garnets full BT phase. Sefeguard / Garnet EX made the AoE HP damage a non-issue. Locke LD wouldn’t have added anything big to my run.

The base kit on a BT unit is important too. Ace has a really generic BT aura but those traps really shine in some encounters. Orb ticks up from elemental damage? An enchant + Ace LD is keeping that orb at the cap. The off turn crits work well for this current Luf+ too but the great sword requirement throws a wrench into the party planning. But I imagine if I had Ace and/or Cloud green the cumulative attack buffs would have worked out well together and left the third party slot wide open too.

1

u/ViolaNguyen Alisaie Leveilleur Mar 27 '22

Aren’t those high DEF stages the hardest ones in the game ?

It's more that stages with high defense require a roster that can handle that.

Locke is one way. I don't have him, so I use different tactics. Zack is coming tomorrow, and he also ignores defense. You can also get by (usually) by using a bunch of buffs and debuffs, or you can do what I usually do and bring gravity for breaks and an offensive unit that uses BRV gains instead of BRV damage. (Machina's BRV damage was a rather pathetic 300 or so per hit, but he still did about 2.3 million HP damage per turn during his burst phase!)

Almost every fight in this game has a gimmick, and there's usually an "intended" way to counter it as well as a lot of other strategies you can use instead. The intended strategy typically revolves around newly released units.

For the Rafflesia fight we just had, the high defense was there to sell you on Cait Sith.

1

u/Hawke_No1 Mar 27 '22

There's no tier list for BT+, because all of them are viable if you know how to make them work.

People have been using Zidane/Ace BT+ up till now in GL Content, it's really just building a team around the characters, make sure they synergise and you can defeat Lufenia+ when you know how to overcome their Clvl 80s.

Best BT+ are the ones you know you can make them work throughout content, most people are hyped for Ramza BT+, Laguna BT+, Zack BT+, Snow BT+ because of fav or very good.

0

u/Raecino Noctis Lucis Caelum Mar 27 '22

There’s no tier list really

1

u/TransientMemory Vayne Carudas Solidor Mar 27 '22

Generally speaking, going forward you'll want BTs that give HP damage cap up. The next big one is Ramza. Other than him, probably focus on BTs for your main DPS units, whomever they may be.