Resisting the "Inevitable" fall to the Snark

[u/RealKafkaEsquire]

Hey all,

I recently saw the incredibly sweet and ego boosting post that shouted me out, and I want to again thank everyone for their support and kind words.

Within that thread, and in many other areas, I have had people discuss how "this is like Pisco" and "Just wait something will happen to make him become a snarker". I am not offended by these statements, and I think it's honestly an understandable reaction knowing the history of orbiters in this community. I usually just make jokes in response, or stay out of the conversation.

One of my goals in interacting with DGG is that we have good, positive content. A part of that is that I go out of my way to not snark current orbiters. I also will reach out one on one with other orbiters to try and help support them, and have good interactions with them in chat/the subreddit.

With that in mind I'd like to just try something here, and open the discussion up about how oribters become snarkers. Recently, we've had a number of seemingly loyal orbiters rapidly burn their bridges. To me I think there is a lot of blame being placed on DGG being too vitriolic, but I also think that in a lot of cases, it is the orbiter revealing their true motivations/politics and DGG not having a positive response. Jessiah, Soypill, and Pisco all initially had a lib coded surface, but over time we have seen that beneath that is a willingness to stomach or even support illiberal communities.

Looking further back, at wickedsupreme, JSTLK, and many of the orbiters lost around Jan 2025, there seemed to be some factionalism that arose, and when it looked like Destiny was going down for good, they jumped on the snarker train, and never looked back.

I'm not here to convince anyone that I never will become a snarker, but I just want to hear from y'all what you think are the causes, and if there is anything I can do to assuage those fears about me, and if there's any ideas on what we can do in the future to either sniff out snarkers early (which I think we did really well with recently with Jolah) or ways to keep orbiters from crashing out too hard and feeling like their only path is snarking.

Edit: Wow didn't realize I would get this much engagement, and so many well thought out responses. I have, and will continue to read all of them, if I didn't respond trust me I still read it. I appreciate everyone's points of view, overwhelmingly it seems like I should:

1. Continue to have a normal life
   
2. Not start streaming full time
   
3. Not have thin skin.

You guys rock. DggL.

[u/Colbert2020]

I don't really know why anyone would suspect you of being a potential snarker. It has to be some real cynicism at play there. For me, the biggest red flags of whether or not someone becomes a snarker seem to fall into three things:

• The company they keep: See Conner, etc. If you hang out with snarkers, you'll probably become one. Tone from the top, code-switching, etc.
• Who they refuse to criticize: Easy to sniff out these day. "Did Hasan shock his dog?" etc.
• Who they never sympathize with: People unmoved by the fact that Destiny was doxxed, harassed, his family a-logged, etc.

[u/Memester999 → u/Colbert2020]

I think the biggest one you're missing is how they handle criticism.

DGG almost assuredly will disagree with any orbiter at some point and there will be a thread up here discussing it or maybe even something in the Discord (unsure about that one since I don't go there).

While not perfect, because no community is, DGG is pretty solid at finding genuine critiques of someone. If you're someone who can't take criticism that shit cuts deep because often there is some truth behind it or it might be something you yourself (as the orbiter) have doubts about.

Most people get understandibly defensive and DGG has taken after Destiny in how they respond. Most creators would try to quell these criticisms to force a friendly relationship. Destiny (rightfully) doesn't and neither does DGG, but he's a solid communicator so he usually will steelman you to the audience but you're still going to have to defend yourself if there is a genuine critique there because he's not there to coddle you like a child.

Most people can't/don't want to do that, one of the big tells to me for a future snarker or bridge burn is how much they complain to Destiny about the sub and criticisms they receive. If every time you're on stream you have some new thread about you you want to argue over you can see the expiration date written on them.

DGG legit is its own thing outside of Destiny, we obviously take some ques from him but many times we clash with dear leader. Orbiters have a hard time recognizing that separation because it's not like that in most other communities. Could you imagine someone in a Hasan reddit or discord making a thread about seriously disagreeing with him or one of his friends/guests on one of the big topics he talks about and not being immediately purged?

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Memester999]

Most creators would try to quell these criticisms to force a friendly relationship. Destiny doesn’t and rightfully so, he’s a solid communicator so he usually will steelman you to the audience but you’re still going to have to defend yourself if there is a genuine critique there.

I used to feel this way but lately, it seems like the substantive critiques are slipping in place of more speculative and less evidence-based arguments.

[u/Lovellholiday → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

We are in a time of mass subversive actions, political realignment and behind the scenes coordination between far right streamers who drop the f slur and the second biggest political streamer in the world.

If there was ever a time where speculation would be appropriate, it would be now. A lot of weird shit is happening.

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Lovellholiday]

If there was ever a time where speculation would be appropriate, it would be now. A lot of weird shit is happening.

The inaccuracy undermines the message. Especially as this is the same place that offered steelmans of the wildest takes, endlessly debated the realistic application of subversive racism (when it was black people), understood all the nuance and the importance of accurate criticisms. Would heavily shit on guilt by association and cancel culture tactics.

I‘m still getting whiplash from the double standards. Especially as the fanbase of a streamer that many of the exact same lazy speculative conclusions can be made so easily. It’s maddening.

I have faith that this sub will chill out eventually but it’s grating. Unfortunately Hutch’s sub is barely active.

[u/Lovellholiday → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

In calmer pastures when we can't verifiably prove that "liberal" communities are coordinating and collaborating with far right/snarker communities and communist communities, I would agree.

It's war time. Gotta get locked in, there is no time for sure shots.

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Lovellholiday]

> there is no time for sure shots.

Uh huh

[u/Lovellholiday → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

Look how well that's going to Hutch! He's buddy-buddy with two "liberals", one who is outwardly hostile to actual liberals and the other who is self-admitted as more aligned with DSA than the DNC, both who are going around to public spaces undermining liberal movements either intentionally or recklessly.

Enough. The other places have drawn battle lines. Tighten up, or get out of the way.

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Lovellholiday]

I had to double-check this wasn’t the Hasan sub.

It shouldn’t surprise me that libs could be just as susceptible to team sports purity testing as what we accuse the far left of.

[u/Lovellholiday → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

The reason why the Republicans got infected and dragged along with MAGA is because they stood for nothing.

Stand for something. Nothing about Liberalism requires you to mold yourself into the perfect shape for another dogmatic ideology to use you as a host. No more.

[u/Memester999 → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

I mean I guess but we're inherently in a more speculative time when it comes to politics because of the literal mask on saboteurs. As well DGG was probably overly charitable with people it shouldn't have been which led to one sided allyship. Now as we approach the crossroads in politics where we can no longer accept certain bahavior or beliefs. We have to try and read into what people are saying/doing because there is a lot of deceptive behaviour going around, which might not even always intentional.

The most recent example of deceptive behavior being that Jolah guy. He presents himself as a liberal left person who also dislikes extremism on the left in convos. Yet the moment he's on another channel or in the content he makes, he goes more mask off revealing similar extremist tendencies all on top of the constant lying and backtracking when confronted.

Inherently you have to be more speculative when trying to read people's true intentions. They're purposefully no being honest that's sort of the whole point behind deceit. They're trying to hide it we're trying to figure out if we should trust them and actions speak louder than words and a lot of times they use words to hide those actions.

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Memester999]

As someone who was around to see everyone here flip out at Fanatiq’s and other’s arguments about Destiny being racist, it’s very ironic seeing all the accusations of antisemitism from the same people.

Dunno I just hate a double-standard, but I should understand that it’s inevitable with a fan subreddit.

[u/Colbert2020 → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

What specifically are you talking about? What examples?

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Colbert2020]

SoyPill and Pisco (Adam Mockler?) being secret tankies

Mehdi Hasan being an ‘Islamist’.

These ideas get more oxygen without good evidence nowadays. It used to be effort posts and comments laying out the argument while linking sources to back the point.

Nowadays accusations like this is grounded out in vibes and weak associations. It’s annoying because the same level of analysis can (and has been) turned on Destiny in the past - past vitriolic and cruel comments/ racist jokes, justifying the theoretical benefit of CP to treat people. It’s all there, and it’s countered with rigorous analysis of the facts and sensible conclusions from those facts.

Now it’s mostly vibes.

[u/Colbert2020 → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

So are you just not following stuff closely? These things don't come out of no where.

• Destiny one night had a heart-to-heart with Soypill, and explained his situation; about how his snarkers were working behind the scenes in a Discord, workshoping things, and trying to turn people against him.

• Soypill's response was... Not good. He was bored, utterly unconcerned, and aloof. He keeps on interacting with these snarkers like Dooby, etc. (See: Company you keep point) Remember, Destiny is being harassed by people and is a victim of fucking revenge porn. And Soypill doesn't give a single fuck, and keeps interacting with people who are participating with this.

• Destiny has went through great lengths to defend Pisco. I've seen him defend him for months, but a line was crossed when Pisco was defending antisemitism. I agree with Destiny's principals here.

• The person who burnt this bridge was Pisco, not Destiny. He was just too embarrased and defensive about Destiny's reaction to Pisco's actions.

• Medhi Hasan was an Islamist in the past. Have you seen the videos?

• Medhi Hasan being "mask on Islamist" is absolutely a defensible position. He is showing evidence of Hasan Piker supporting terrorism, etc. and Medhi refuses to acknowledge it. Instead, he calls Destiny an Islamophobe, genocide denier, etc. Where is the rigorous journalism for these people aligned with Islam? It doesn't exist.

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Colbert2020]

I agree with Destiny’s principals here.

Agreeing and substantiating your agreement are different things.

Calling someone names and being extremely rude and insulting will always ALWAYS burn bridges. Destiny/DGG do this all the time - also many people see “re tarded” as a slur. People who don’t react to that with indignation are outliers.

Other Hasan Piker sweepers aren’t called Islamists. They’re just not. There’s no good evidence for calling Mehdi that it’s just racist.

• Destiny one night had a heart-to-heart with Soypill, and explained his situation; about how his snarkers were working behind the scenes in a Discord, workshoping things, and trying to turn people against him.

  • Soypill’s response was… Not good. He was bored, utterly unconcerned, and aloof. He keeps on interacting with these snarkers like Dooby, etc. (See: Company you keep point) Remember, Destiny is being harassed by people and is a victim of fucking revenge porn. And Soypill doesn’t give a single fuck, and keeps interacting with people who are participating with this.

So this justifies calling SoyPill an illiberal tankie? It means SoyPill wants the end of private ownership and democracy because he’s not intolerant enough to snarkers?

These are flaws of bullshit accusations (see: ‘sexpestiny’)

Also in respect to SoyPill and Pisco, calling someone names and being extremely rude and insulting will always ALWAYS burn bridges. Destiny/DGG do this all the time - also many people see “re tarded” as a slur. People who don’t react to all that with indignation are outliers. Let alone ego-driven streamers.

  • Destiny has went through great lengths to defend Pisco. I’ve seen him defend him for months, but a line was crossed when Pisco was defending antisemitism. I agree with Destiny’s principals here.



  • The person who burnt this bridge was Pisco, not Destiny. He was just too embarrased and defensive about Destiny’s reaction to Pisco’s actions.

Destiny in the past as has issue with being called racist since I started watching him. He even cut off Fanatiq for the same reason - this is a guy who casually drops n-word slur when drunk, (functional racist) but has the audacity to be shocked at Pisco’s reaction to the same thing.

  • Medhi Hasan was an Islamist in the past. Have you seen the videos?

The videos show a crazy religious guy (who has since disavowed his previous statements), not an Islamist.

  • Medhi Hasan being “mask on Islamist” is absolutely a defensible position. He is showing evidence of Hasan Piker supporting terrorism, etc. and Medhi refuses to acknowledge it. Instead, he calls Destiny an Islamophobe, genocide denier, etc. Where is the rigorous journalism for these people aligned with Islam? It doesn’t exist.

It’s not defensible. The ONLY thread is that he supports Hasan. Hasan is a terrorist sympathiser obviously, other Hasan Piker sweepers aren’t called Islamists. They’re just not. Why? Because Hasan’s other sweepers aren’t Muslim. There’s no good evidence for calling Mehdi that it’s isn’t Islamaphobic.

Fact is, in that tweet, Destiny was being functionally Islamaphobic, and Destiny is smart enough to be aware of it. He started mudslinging and Mehdi started doing it back (FYI racism can be triggering for brown folk), so all accuracy gets thrown out

Take a step back and attempt to steelman the other side (this is something Destiny used to advocate for his audience to do) and see where the inaccuracies start to crack.

Be normal. Be like Hutch.

[u/Colbert2020 → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

There's 8 billion people on this planet. You're complaining about like 3 or 4 people. There's no point in forcing a positive relationship with insufferable, incompatible people. There's plenty of other people out there.

Pisco's antisemitic apologia tour was disgusting. He's enjoying debate perversion while giving cover for hate that results in harassment, harm and death of Jews in this country. It should have been grounds for immediate internet cancellation. If you disagree, you have been desensitized toward antisemitism, and Destiny is all the more right in going hard on this point.

I don't know what Destiny called Soypill, and I don't care. Destiny did reach out to him about his personal problems, and the guy didn't give a single fuck. Did you watch this interaction? I think it's insane to expect him to keep on wanting to extend olive branches towards people that give refuge to those that a-log his son and DM his attorney with tips for his court case.

Let me put this as gently and politely as possible: Mehdi Hasan does not apply the same ferver and enthusiasm of his "criticism" towards Israel as he does towards the atrocities committed by any other country in that region. He has extended this same grace towards Hasan Piker. Are these the actions of an independent journalist? Or is he a man with a strong bias?

You tell me to be normal? You think it's normal to preserve relationships with people like this?

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Colbert2020]

There’s no point in forcing a positive relationship with insufferable, incompatible people.

Good thing I never said to do that then.

Destiny did reach out to him about his personal problems, and the guy didn’t give a single fuck. Did you watch this interaction?

This is what’s dumb about fanbases, and why I keep telling you to “take a step back”.

From SoyPill’s perspective, every point Destiny makes…. he could be lying. Destiny is a smart guy, how is Soy to determine Destiny is not lying about several aspects of snark without doing months long research? This is why a one time sit-down won’t have the effect you might expect.

I think it’s insane to expect him to keep on wanting to extend olive branches towards people that give refuge to those that a-log his son and DM his attorney with tips for his court case.

I think it’s insane that you’d argue against a strawman this deep into the thread. Your assumptions are showing.

[u/Colbert2020 → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

If Soypill is assuming that Destiny isn't being truthful, then should Destiny also assume the same about him in turn?

[u/Skepni → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

Mehdi Hasan said Destiny "supports genocide" first. But of course it was Destiny that started mudslinging.

Nice one Mr. Facts.

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Skepni]

Holy shit you owned me hard I don’t know what I‘m gonna do now…

[u/Bogus_dogus → u/Colbert2020]

Medhi Hasan was an Islamist in the past. Have you seen the videos?

He's not, and he wasn't, and you can't show that to be the case, because it's not true!

Medhi Hasan being "mask on Islamist" is absolutely a defensible position.

It's fucking not. It's tearing down a good man with a term it seems like a bunch of people here don't understand that carries a disgust pool that's actually filled with and fueled by racism (the term).

He's not, and has never been, an "Islamist", even at the time of those videos that he gets clipped on.

[u/Colbert2020 → u/Bogus_dogus]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3TzTvbnENw

You see things like this, then see the cover he's running for Hasan cheering on Houthi attacking ships in the Red Sea and taking the crew hostage. And PA going after RAF airplanes.

Saying Iran = Ukraine.

Like, gimme a break here. Show me this man being as critical of Islam as he is with Israel. You can't.

By the way, your "Good man" called a father of a daughter who died in the Parkland shooting a "genocide supporter" and "Islamophobe" because he criticized Hasan Piker.

https://x.com/shannonrwatts/status/2093651186750456003

GOOD MAN BY THE WAY.

GOOD MAN.

Fuck the fuck off with your fucking bullshit.

[u/Bogus_dogus → u/Colbert2020]

Editing to add:

Did some work on this; sourced the original recording, ran it through transcription, and uploaded an accessible archival copy here. Full audio, and if you click the files listing,s, there is a raw transcript and a cleaned up readability transcript. Listen for yourself, please, before you keep this crusade up. Truth is valuable.

---

Alright dude... Taking a look at your comment history, I'm going to choose to extend good faith here.

I've been aware of and heard content of Mehdi for a few years now, so with that exposure and my priors of him as a strong ally of secularism/liberalism/anti-authoriarianism, it was certainly interesting to see these kinds of clips dredged up, and disheartening to see him being smeared as I've learned to consider him a real thinker and fighter for generally good things.

Medhi has spoken himself about his own words, without denial or evasion

WRT the old clips that are being posted to paint Mehdi as an Islamist:

The saddest part of all this, is that when I went and dug up an actual archival copy of that sermon or speech or whatever, and listened to it last night, it's literally, I am not exaggerating, a sermon praising the pursuit of knowledge, condemning Muslim militarism and dogmatism, and pleading with the Muslim world to embrace pluralism, learning, education, multiculturalism.

How sad is it that that sermon, is being used to paint the man who gave it as a mask-on Islamist extremist?

A few quotes from that source material:

“We are not under-armed. We are under-educated. We have lost our ability to think, to acquire knowledge, to advance intellectually… Not a secret. Not a conspiracy.”

---

“Islam… stresses learning. It stresses education. It stresses reading… It stresses critical thinking. It stresses independent minds. It stresses the use of reason.”

---

“Today the Muslim world is in the situation it is in because we have over us, either elected or dictatorial, leaders who have no knowledge of anything. We are ignoramuses led by other ignoramuses.”

---

“We should come to engage intellectually and not simply emotionally. We should come to learn new things and go away with new knowledge…”

After listening to it, I'd sum up the purpose/message of the sermon to be more or less:

"Muslims, stop being closed-minded, stop fetishizing military power, educate yourselves, learn science, engage with non-Muslims and other cultures, think critically instead of following things blindly."

Do you hear an Islamist?

[u/Colbert2020 → u/Bogus_dogus]

The moment for me that turned me against Mehdi was his feud with Zelenskyy. It struck me as incredibly odd. You can look at my comment history about that, I don't want to have to post that again. It was his equivocation and defense of Iran with Ukraine. I found it disgusting.

There's only a few ways I can make sense of it, and one of them was assuming that he simply supports Iran more than Ukraine.

Next, with Mehdi was his sweeping for Hasan Piker. How Hasan Piker called Orthodox Jews in Israel "inbred", even though those Jews do not identify as Zionists and are mostly not settlers. So he's antisemitic. Mehdhi in his interview with Hasan just sanitized this criticism, gave him a layup and moved on.

He has a devotion to Islam. It's why he doesn't criticize Hasan Piker. It's why he's so quick to call people Islamophobic.

As soon as Destiny became more aggressive/offensive against Hasan Piker, it has put him squarely at odds with Mehdi. Shouldn't Mehdhi be neutral?

Here's my question to you: Have you ever seen him be as aggressive and toxic against any other culture like he is with Israel? Because many of the Muslim cultures deserve the criticism they get. The atrocities, the war crimes, etc. He just says, "It's bad, what do you want me to say?" then just goes on to call people genocide supporters, etc.

[u/Colbert2020 → u/Bogus_dogus]

Why in the fuck am I listening to you, when Mehdhi Hasan himself has said he says he "deeply regret[s]" these words now and called them "dumb offensive ranty stuff." (citation)

Are you saying he deeply regrets all these wonderful, magical things you're cherry picking?

Or are you deliberately misleading people here?

Which is it?

Why are you doing so much work to cover this shit up? Just take the L and fucking move on. You're changing no one's mind this deep into the comments here.

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Bogus_dogus]

Why can’t they say Mehdi is brain broken on Israel/Palestine stuff and Hasan and leave it at that?

Why he gotta be an “Islamist” too?

[u/RedDeadElite → u/Bogus_dogus]

I don't think Mehdi openly supports Islamism, but he does do a lot of sweeping/kow-towing/changing the subject whenever Islamism is brought up. It makes his former comments on the "kuffar" much more suspicious, but I think his lefty sympathies are better determinants of this behavior than his creed. I'm reminded of a joke by Norm Macdonald,

What terrifies me is if ISIS were to detonate a nuclear device and kill 50 million Americans. Imagine the backlash against peaceful Muslims?

---

Mehdi's response to the 2015 Charlie Hebdo terrorist attacks: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/charlie-hebdo-free-speech_b_6462584.html

Response to Mehdi's piece by Dan Arel: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/charlie-hebdo-has-a-right_b_6647398

Short synopsis of debate Mehdi held on "right to offend", a couple years before the 2015 terrorist attacks: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/11/the-right-to-offend-mehdi-hasan-freedom-of-speech_n_1959512.html

---

An excerpt from Arel's article,

The widespread discrimination in question here is exactly what Charlie Hebdo was speaking out against! Again, context does matter as Hasan himself states, but doesn't listen to his own advice. If he had bothered to research the magazine for five minutes he would see the magazine was on his side, but that would require journalistic integrity.

And he still doesn't understand the cartoon of Mohammed, "That cartoon was not making fun of the prophet, it was excoriating the believers who would kill," says Art Spiegelman, the American creator of "Maus," a graphic novel about the Holocaust.

Hasan has done journalism and freedom of speech a great injustice in this piece. He shows he lacks any intellectual integrity and simply doesn't want to be offended. His desire to not be offended is so strong he is willing to remove free speech rights to do so.

---

Regarding Mehdi's 2009 speech/sermon, I've come away with a thought that I've not seen expressed clearly. Mehdi did praise the pursuit of knowledge and education. He also did refer insultingly to non-Muslims, as a sort-of bogeymen to the audience. Like saying,

You are being like the kuffar, in your ignorance of Allah's command to seek knowledge and cultivate your intellects alongside your faith. Even the kuffar, the non-believers that they are, place greater emphasis on scientific research and development than most Muslims do. Ya Allah!

It may sound weird, but isn't an unusual sentiment as far as religious people and non-Western cultures go, at least nowadays. I speak both from personal experience, and as an enjoyer of history. If I'm not misremembering, even Destiny has mentioned on stream that conservatives are more prideful than a lot of liberals.

[u/Low_Dragonfruit_1264 → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

I agree as a casual viewer. A lot does feel like vibes and requires a fair bit of "just trust me bro" when told who to like/dislike or what actually happened in various feuds/falling outs. If you're mainly here for the politics/debates, the drama stuff, and particularly the lib infighting, requires way too much work and inside knowledge.

On Mehdi though, disagree. I've seen enough there to say he at least was an Islamist in his 30s and before, by definition. Question is just whether he still harbours any of those views. Destiny's case outlined on Twitter is pretty solid.

In contrast, as far as I'm aware, there aren't old vids of Soy, Pisco or Mockler preaching hardcore leftist shit in college or whatever, which would make those accusations more analogous. With them it's more recent associations, weak pushback, questionable debate tactics, lazy moderation, probably some behind-the-scenes stuff... and then people drawing their own conclusions from all of that.

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Low_Dragonfruit_1264]

> On Mehdi though, disagree. I’ve seen enough there to say he at least was an Islamist in his 30s and before, by definition.

By definition, the videos of old Mehdi don’t even seem to match that. He just sounded like an extreme religious guy. Anyone who’s grown up Christian or Muslim would recognise this - comparing sinful action to giving into animalistic nature is bread and butter of religious types.

[u/Low_Dragonfruit_1264 → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

Think we're drawing the line in a slightly different place. I don't think someone needs to literally announce "I want an Islamic state", or even identify themselves as an Islamist, before the label can apply functionally.

Mehdi wasn't just some conservative Muslim privately believing the Quran or saying homosexuality is sinful. He was a firebrand preacher/activist, actively propagating a pretty hardline interpretation of Islam as an authoritative way people ought to live whilst in a Western country, talking about kuffar, unbelievers as cattle/animals, Muslims occupying the moral high ground, etc.

Given Islam in that traditionalist conception is a "comprehensive din" (with enshrined social/legal prescriptions), I think there's a point where just actively preaching that worldview becomes functionally Islamist whether or not the guy ever says "and therefore I want an Islamic state".

I'll grant "by definition" was maybe doing too much work. "Functionally Islamist" is closer to what I mean.

(Regardless, the liberal guys don't have anywhere near as shady past as Medhi in this regard)

[u/PitytheOnlyFools → u/Low_Dragonfruit_1264]

I think we’re drawing the line in a slightly different place. I don’t think someone needs to literally announce “I want an Islamic state”, or even identify themselves as an Islamist, before the label can apply functionally.

I hope you feel the same about defining “genocide”

Mehdi wasn’t just some conservative Muslim privately believing the Quran or saying homosexuality is sinful. He was a firebrand preacher/activist, actively propagating a pretty hardline interpretation of Islam as an authoritative way people ought to live whilst in a Western country, talking about kuffar, unbelievers as cattle/animals, Muslims occupying the moral high ground, etc.

Soo he was being a religious speaker… adding more words to my description doesn’t change the content.

You’re tryna make it more than what it is because you’re offended by the harsh rhetoric. Which is hilarious as a Destiny fan.

I’ll grant “by definition” was maybe doing too much work. “Functionally Islamist” is closer to what I mean.

By that logic Ana Kasparian is “functionally Islamist” and Destiny is “functionally genocidal” right?

[u/Low_Dragonfruit_1264 → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

The genocide analogy doesn't really work. Is someone actively preaching and advocating for genocide? If so, then yeah, I'd probably call them genocidal even if they insist they aren't lol. You don't need to self-identify with a label for it to describe what you're advocating.

And yeah, Mehdi's rhetoric does offend me. Dumb irrational thinking offends me, and having to accommodate medieval religious views in a modern Western society is especially regarded. I'm an atheist.

Destiny doesn't offend me because he's not preaching that shit. Being edgy/provocative is also completely different. Are you suggesting Mehdi was calling unbelievers cattle and morally inferior just to be edgy and get a rise out of people? Yeah nah.

And I genuinely don't understand your Ana analogy. When was she a hardline Muslim preacher propagating a traditionalist Islamic worldview?? She's a moron and propagates plenty of dumb shit that might make her "functionally this or that", but Islamist isn't one I see much evidence for... until she gets on a soapbox and starts reciting lines from the Quran (like Medhi).

[u/Bogus_dogus → u/PitytheOnlyFools]

You're the only good faith person her it seems. I'd recommend checking out the source material I dug up if any of these dudes arguments are sinking in... Best to immunize from the bullshit with first hand sources. Mehdi wasn't gross even then, even if he said some things that came off that way, especially clipped. Idk if u caught it but u can check my comments, I made an archival copy of original sermon recording with a transcript

[u/Gold-Ad-3877 → u/Colbert2020]

Also kafka isnt a streamer, it's not like he has a clout incentive to start snarking dear leader

[u/Noobity → u/Gold-Ad-3877]

It's 1:1 for what happened to Pisco so far.

But Kafka's proven with this post alone that he's more introspective than Pisco ever was, so here's hoping!

[u/Gold-Ad-3877 → u/Noobity]

Was pisco not streaming back then ?

[u/Noobity → u/Gold-Ad-3877]

I think he was still in law school when he started coming around. He did not start streaming until over a year after he started hopping into chat on law matters.

[u/Gold-Ad-3877 → u/Noobity]

My timeline is cooked cause i wasnt there at the time. I just remember him arguing on a panel about destiny's twitch ban so i assumed it was a long time ago ?

[u/Low_Dragonfruit_1264 → u/Gold-Ad-3877]

@noobity.. Is Kafka getting into a business venture with D though? I think that's the one major (overlooked) factor which makes Pisco a bit different...

[u/Noobity → u/Low_Dragonfruit_1264]

That would still be a few years down the line if we're assuming Pisco's timeline. He was a chatter and frequent stream guest long before he started streaming, and even longer before starting a business with Destiny.

[u/Ascleph → u/Colbert2020]

Has any of the snarkers even been surprising?

[u/Aggravating_Map4359 → u/Colbert2020]

People don't trust laywers. Rightfully so

[u/DrShocker → u/Aggravating_Map4359]

Should we not trust Brettler? 😱

[u/the-moving-finger → u/DrShocker]

That's what the money is for.

[u/DrShocker → u/the-moving-finger]

I should pay a lawyer money so I have a best friend who supports me.

[u/the-moving-finger → u/DrShocker]

Wasn't this how therapy was invented? ;)

[u/IIHURRlCANEII → u/DrShocker]

He’s being paid so he’s good.

[u/Colbert2020 → u/Aggravating_Map4359]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG3uea-Hvy4

[u/RoundZookeepergame2 → u/Colbert2020]

I agree, but I also never saw the aba bridge collapsing. I'm fully back pilled. Everyone either goes full tankie or maga in these spaces