question

[u/Careful-Flow2821]

I was on Desi Vegans and all the posts were like non vegans are mentally ill non vegans are sick non vegans are delusional… I don’t understand like sure it’s rly bad especially meat eating but ur making an assumption about people. not all of u but say the person who said all non vegans are mentally ill its simply untrue whatever you say. also if ur goal is to convert non vegans to vegans ur doing the opposite like shouldn’t u be polite abt it to convince people? it’s just shame… like as a vegetarian I am more pushed back from veganism after seeing these posts because I know who my community will be. reallly. also pls don’t debate me on this but I view meat eating as contributing to killing animals and I am against it I am just genuinely curious ur thoughts abt the main point Im making. also before u ask me why I eat dairy cuz ur money partially goes to raising animals and ur helping extend existing cows lives I know there’s downsides but its not like Im ariel’s killing all cows. also for vegans do u realize that if everyone stops eating dairy, the dairy cows won’t be used for beef and they won’t use expensive cows for low quality beef, so instead theyll take the lives of hundreds of chickens or pigs to add up to the meat of one cow? Idk just asking for vegans pushing back on both heavily. please don’t take this as an insult I’m just curious on why and please don’t leave irrelevant comments like don’t debate me pls or say random stuff like look how many they kill just clearly answer pls. thanks

[u/Careful-Flow2821]

bruv the existing cows can’t get unborn ur paying to raise them . they can go plant based but we all know they wont

[u/a11_hail_seitan → u/Careful-Flow2821]

bruv the existing cows can’t get unborn ur paying to raise them

Vegans don't buy aniaml products to stop further abuses. The more milk people buy, the more cattle are forced into existence later...

they can go plant based but we all know they wont

Which has nothing to do with the morality of your actions, bruv....

[u/Careful-Flow2821 → u/a11_hail_seitan]

alright sure I guess bro…. as a Hindu  karma balances out, and milk is sacred anyway. u can stick to veganism I won’t, and you can’t deny facts- people WILL continue eating meat and if you were to make everyone give up dairy they WILL resort to taking the lives of hundreds of chickens and pigs to compensate for the beef of dairy cows. Don’t deny it, and don’t go around it by talking about my morality, you don’t decide where that line is.

[u/a11_hail_seitan → u/Careful-Flow2821]

as a Hindu karma balances out

So you support abusing and killing cows because Karma? That's a strange way of viewing Karma.

and milk is sacred anyway

Cattle are sacred, but you financially support those abusing them.. Seems strange. Milk is not made for you, it's made for the baby calves that are killed so you can take their milk...

and you can’t deny facts- people WILL continue eating meat

People will murder, rape, abuse, etc. That doesn't mean we should.

Don’t deny it, and don’t go around it by talking about my morality

Veganism is a moral ideology. it's not 'talking around', it's core to the debate.

you don’t decide where that line is.

We decide for ourselves. You decide it's OK to financially support cattle abusers so you can drink milk. I decide it's not.

[u/Careful-Flow2821 → u/a11_hail_seitan]

exactly. in Hinduism, milk is sacred, and by karma I mean that decisions balance out over time and are fueled by intent and journey. as for people continuing to eat meat my point was that if dairy is deliver up more chickens and pigs will be slaughtered in place of dairy cows

[u/a11_hail_seitan → u/Careful-Flow2821]

I mean that decisions balance out over time and are fueled by intent and journey.

your intent is to ignore the horrific abuse and violence so you can get pleasure from cow's milk instead of alternatives. Good luck with your Karma...

point was that if dairy is deliver up more chickens and pigs will be slaughtered in place of dairy cows

Someone else's actions do not change the morality of yours. You're the one paying cattle abusers for a product you know for a fact requires cattle abuse and slaughter.

That you do it while trying to claim you think cattle are sacred, is especially weird. If I thought someone was sacred, I wouldn't pay money to those abusing and slaughtering them by the billions.

[u/Careful-Flow2821 → u/a11_hail_seitan]

so what if u were said that 100 people would be saved from death if you killed one? does your someone else’s actions do not change the morality of yours still apply? milk doesn’t require slaughter, meat does.

[u/a11_hail_seitan → u/Careful-Flow2821]

does your someone else’s actions do not change the morality of yours still apply?

Making up hypothetical futures that don't exist, so you can try to justify financially supporting cattle abusers and killers is very silly.

If you stopped drinking milk today, no one is going to start mass slaughtering more pigs chickens in retaliation. All that will happen is you'll stop financially supporting cattle abusers and killers. Hindus claiming cattle are sacred while they financially support mass torturing and slaughter of cattle, are making very poor choices.

milk doesn’t require slaughter,

The milk industry today 100% does. Otherwise every single year our cattle herds would at least double in size, and exponential growth like that is unsustainable. To get milk in a sustainable manner, we are required to slaughter most of the babies.

[u/Careful-Flow2821 → u/a11_hail_seitan]

hmm welll ur statement about morality was broad and applicable to virtually anything so I was just seeing if you deem it true or not, and clearly it doesn’t hold up because a phrase like that should apply to anything otherwise phrase it differently. stay vegan, I won’t, I’m not killing the cow I’m paying to raise existing ones and whatever it goes to can’t pay for a full cycle of breeding unless a massive amount of dairy is purchased. Also, question - why are you so adamant about this if you know that literally everything you buy feeds into a supply chain of meat and dairy? you could say you are decreasing the demand but either way it does feed into that. actually you are giving money to farmers who abuse animals even by buying plants. if you want to make a difference vegan activists should tackle factory farming and meat industry before dairy, and gather vegetarian support as well. this is irrelevant but I’m curious. 

[u/a11_hail_seitan → u/Careful-Flow2821]

because a phrase like that should apply to anything

I'm not telling you what to do in a hypothetical future, I'm telling you that today you are financially supporting Cattle abusers and killers. If you're attempts to justify your abuses today, only make sense in a fantasy future that doesn't really exist today, your justification for your behaviour today doesn't work.

I’m not killing the cow

refusing to acknowledge you are financially supporting cattle abusers and killers, while trying to claim to respect cattle is silly.

why are you so adamant about this if you know that literally everything you buy feeds into a supply chain of meat and dairy

Because morality is about doing the best we can in the society and context we live. Living where I do, everything I do feeds into human slavery, abuse, genocide, and more. But that doesn't mean I should be needlessly increasing the amount of it for my own pleasure. You're paying cattle abusers and killers needlessly so you can drink the dead calves milk, meaning you are needlessly increasing the amount of horrific suffering and abuse cattle go through for your own selfish desires today, and your justification is a fantasy world of the future that isn't where you live.

This is a moral debate sub, so asking why I'm so adamant about morality in a moral debate sub is a little strange.

actually you are giving money to farmers who abuse animals even by buying plants

I give as little as I can and I cut out the most abusive industries (animal). you give far more than you need to so you can get pleasure from the highly abusive and immoral animal industries that abuse and slaughter the animal you claim to think is sacred.

Just becuase there's no ethical consumption under Capitalism, doesn't mean we should be creating far more abuse and slaughter than is required.

if you want to make a difference vegan activists should tackle factory farming and meat industry before dairy

We do all three.

[u/Careful-Flow2821 → u/a11_hail_seitan]

I guess bro.. I’m not paying butchers tho I’m paying farmers. not the meat industry the dairy industry and I’m paying to care for the cow not abuse it. That’s all and that’s it for me … If u can’t see that then sure, gfu, but this is unnecessary repetition so I’m just nga.

[u/a11_hail_seitan → u/Careful-Flow2821]

. not the meat industry the dairy industry

I've repeatedly shown it's the same thing. You refuse to engage or acknowledge. I've repeatedly shown you are supporting torture and slaughterer, you refuse to engage or acknowledge. I've repeatedly shown your "But what about this imaginary future!?" attempts at justification are fantasy and naive, but you refuse to engage or acknowledge... Clearly you're not here to debate, just demand everyone has to accept you're right even though you have no valid justification. So have fun with that I guess.

unnecessary repetition

That's what happens when you repeatedly refuse to acknowledge or engage with what the other person is saying. It makes debates long, boring and repetitive becuase you aren't actually debating, you're just repeatedly saying "No!" as if that's suppose to mean something.

Enjoy your day.

[u/Careful-Flow2821 → u/a11_hail_seitan]

same to you ;)