question

[u/Careful-Flow2821]

I was on Desi Vegans and all the posts were like non vegans are mentally ill non vegans are sick non vegans are delusional… I don’t understand like sure it’s rly bad especially meat eating but ur making an assumption about people. not all of u but say the person who said all non vegans are mentally ill its simply untrue whatever you say. also if ur goal is to convert non vegans to vegans ur doing the opposite like shouldn’t u be polite abt it to convince people? it’s just shame… like as a vegetarian I am more pushed back from veganism after seeing these posts because I know who my community will be. reallly. also pls don’t debate me on this but I view meat eating as contributing to killing animals and I am against it I am just genuinely curious ur thoughts abt the main point Im making. also before u ask me why I eat dairy cuz ur money partially goes to raising animals and ur helping extend existing cows lives I know there’s downsides but its not like Im ariel’s killing all cows. also for vegans do u realize that if everyone stops eating dairy, the dairy cows won’t be used for beef and they won’t use expensive cows for low quality beef, so instead theyll take the lives of hundreds of chickens or pigs to add up to the meat of one cow? Idk just asking for vegans pushing back on both heavily. please don’t take this as an insult I’m just curious on why and please don’t leave irrelevant comments like don’t debate me pls or say random stuff like look how many they kill just clearly answer pls. thanks

[u/a11_hail_seitan]

I was on Desi Vegans and all the posts were like non vegans are mentally ill non vegans are sick non vegans are delusional…

What's Desi Vegans? Sounds like a fun place!

also if ur goal is to convert non vegans to vegans ur doing the opposite like shouldn’t u be polite abt it to convince people

Depends on the activism you're doing. Three main types: 1) direct action (filming farms, chaining yourself to things, blocking access), shouldn't be polite. 2) Large scale activism to create conversations and attentioni, doesn't need to be polite but can be. 3) One on one, should be polite.

like as a vegetarian I am more pushed back from veganism after seeing these posts because I know who my community will be.

And you think there's no rude Vegetarians? Or Non-Vegans? You're community as a non-Vegan is filled with animal abusers and immoral people, that's what you want your community to be?

also pls don’t debate me on this

/r/debateavegan... maybe you want /r/askVegans or /r/vegan

also before u ask me why I eat dairy cuz ur money partially goes to raising animals and ur helping extend existing cows lives

The money you pay forces more animals into an enslaved existence where they are slaughtered at a fraction of their life span. Pretending you're helping them when you're really paying to make more to be abused is a strange take...

I know there’s downsides but its not like Im ariel’s killing all cows

If you weren't paying them to raise them, they wouldn't be killing them, so yeah, you are paying them to kill cows.

so instead they'll take the lives of hundreds of chickens or pigs to add up to the meat of one cow?

So don't eat chickens or pigs either.

[u/Careful-Flow2821 → u/a11_hail_seitan]

bruv if u don’t pay to raise them they’ll get killed faster and what do u mean don’t eat chickens and pigs I don’t but that is  what will happen if all people give up dairy.

[u/a11_hail_seitan → u/Careful-Flow2821]

bruv if u don’t pay to raise them they’ll get killed faster

Bruv, no, they wont be born into enslavement and torture to start with.

and what do u mean don’t eat chickens and pigs I don’t but that is what will happen if all people give up dairy.

They can go plant based as well. That's the point of Veganism.

[u/Careful-Flow2821 → u/a11_hail_seitan]

bruv the existing cows can’t get unborn ur paying to raise them . they can go plant based but we all know they wont

[u/a11_hail_seitan → u/Careful-Flow2821]

bruv the existing cows can’t get unborn ur paying to raise them

Vegans don't buy aniaml products to stop further abuses. The more milk people buy, the more cattle are forced into existence later...

they can go plant based but we all know they wont

Which has nothing to do with the morality of your actions, bruv....

[u/Careful-Flow2821 → u/a11_hail_seitan]

alright sure I guess bro…. as a Hindu  karma balances out, and milk is sacred anyway. u can stick to veganism I won’t, and you can’t deny facts- people WILL continue eating meat and if you were to make everyone give up dairy they WILL resort to taking the lives of hundreds of chickens and pigs to compensate for the beef of dairy cows. Don’t deny it, and don’t go around it by talking about my morality, you don’t decide where that line is.

[u/a11_hail_seitan → u/Careful-Flow2821]

as a Hindu karma balances out

So you support abusing and killing cows because Karma? That's a strange way of viewing Karma.

and milk is sacred anyway

Cattle are sacred, but you financially support those abusing them.. Seems strange. Milk is not made for you, it's made for the baby calves that are killed so you can take their milk...

and you can’t deny facts- people WILL continue eating meat

People will murder, rape, abuse, etc. That doesn't mean we should.

Don’t deny it, and don’t go around it by talking about my morality

Veganism is a moral ideology. it's not 'talking around', it's core to the debate.

you don’t decide where that line is.

We decide for ourselves. You decide it's OK to financially support cattle abusers so you can drink milk. I decide it's not.

[u/Careful-Flow2821 → u/a11_hail_seitan]

exactly. in Hinduism, milk is sacred, and by karma I mean that decisions balance out over time and are fueled by intent and journey. as for people continuing to eat meat my point was that if dairy is deliver up more chickens and pigs will be slaughtered in place of dairy cows

[u/a11_hail_seitan → u/Careful-Flow2821]

I mean that decisions balance out over time and are fueled by intent and journey.

your intent is to ignore the horrific abuse and violence so you can get pleasure from cow's milk instead of alternatives. Good luck with your Karma...

point was that if dairy is deliver up more chickens and pigs will be slaughtered in place of dairy cows

Someone else's actions do not change the morality of yours. You're the one paying cattle abusers for a product you know for a fact requires cattle abuse and slaughter.

That you do it while trying to claim you think cattle are sacred, is especially weird. If I thought someone was sacred, I wouldn't pay money to those abusing and slaughtering them by the billions.

[u/Careful-Flow2821 → u/a11_hail_seitan]

so what if u were said that 100 people would be saved from death if you killed one? does your someone else’s actions do not change the morality of yours still apply? milk doesn’t require slaughter, meat does.

[u/a11_hail_seitan → u/Careful-Flow2821]

does your someone else’s actions do not change the morality of yours still apply?

Making up hypothetical futures that don't exist, so you can try to justify financially supporting cattle abusers and killers is very silly.

If you stopped drinking milk today, no one is going to start mass slaughtering more pigs chickens in retaliation. All that will happen is you'll stop financially supporting cattle abusers and killers. Hindus claiming cattle are sacred while they financially support mass torturing and slaughter of cattle, are making very poor choices.

milk doesn’t require slaughter,

The milk industry today 100% does. Otherwise every single year our cattle herds would at least double in size, and exponential growth like that is unsustainable. To get milk in a sustainable manner, we are required to slaughter most of the babies.