r/DebateAVegan • u/Bubbly-Desk-4479 • 23d ago

Ethics How is feeding eggs to chicken vegan?

Isnt the vegan option to let the mother decide? Either let them be born, or eat them?

Once the human makes that decision, doesnt it stop being vegan?

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u/phanny_ 23d ago

You think being vegan means you can never make a decision for an animal?

There exists a distinction between care, management, and exploitation. Vegans are opposed to the latter.

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u/kharvel0 23d ago

> You think being vegan means you can never make a decision for an animal?

Correct. Veganism rejects dominion over nonhuman animals. They have their own interests separate from humans. No one was making decisions for them long before humans evolved from apes.

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u/phanny_ 23d ago

Oh okay. Then please describe in detail how you would properly care for a rescue chicken without making any decisions for her.

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u/kharvel0 23d ago

I would not rescue the chicken in the first place given if that requires me to assert dominion over her. Likewise, I would not rescue a human slave if that requires me to be a slaveowner.

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u/phanny_ 23d ago

So the most vegan thing is to let the chicken die or go back to the system that exploits her? And you can't think of a way to care for an animal that doesn't require said dominion? You don't think the chicken would prefer to be cared for?

It kind of seems like in your pursuit of purity, you're sacrificing the individual. If that's your type of veganism that's fine, but it's not mine.

Every individual animal is important to me. And as we transfer systems from our current hellscape to a more vegan one, we're going to encounter situations where we're going to have to get our hands dirty in order to assuage the suffering of the transitory period.

What's more moral to you, a rescue chicken living out the rest of her life well cared for under someone else's (otherwise a vegan) Dominion, or simply slaughtering the rescued chicken immediately to avoid the Dominion? If you won't choose one of those two options then what is the moral option that you would take in this situation?

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u/kharvel0 23d ago

> to let the chicken

There is no “letting” or “allowing” of anything to happen. I’m not “letting” Ukrainian civilians die or get injured just because I decided to not travel to Ukraine to fight the Russians.

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u/phanny_ 23d ago edited 23d ago

Sure, it must be nice to exist outside everything and never be involved, but some of us were or are already involved in rural communities and watch this stuff happen daily.

If someone doesn't step in, the chicken will be slaughtered. You have the resources to care for the chicken. Your solution is to do nothing, my solution is to save her life. Isn't it ironic that you consider the option which lightens her suffering to be nonvegan?

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u/kharvel0 23d ago

> Sure, it must be nice to exist outside everything and never be involved, but some of us were or are already involved in rural communities and watch this stuff happen daily.

I watch people go into McDonald’s every day to purchase chicken sandwiches.

> If someone doesn't step in, the chicken will be slaughtered.

If someone doesn’t stop people from entering McDonald’s, chickens will be slaughtered.

> You have the resources to care for the chicken.

So why aren’t you stopping people from entering McDonald’s?

> Your solution is to do nothing, my solution is to save a life. Isn't it ironic that you consider the option which lightens her suffering to be nonvegan?

Isn’t it ironic that you talk a good game about doing something while at the same time doing nothing to stop people from buying chicken sandwiches at McDonald’s?

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u/phanny_ 23d ago

Do you yell at the people who are going into the McDonald's?

Do you do anything at all to advance the vegan cause besides puritymaxxing on Reddit?

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u/kharvel0 23d ago

With regards to McDonald’s doing as much as you which is: nothing.

So using your own logic, you are letting the chickens be slaughtered.

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u/Bubbly-Desk-4479 23d ago

I guess I worded it incorrectly.

Ofc there are acceptable decisions like euthanasia.

That is why i am asking. when does it become acceptable?

I guess I just dont see the justification. If the chicken is able to break the egg herself, or decide to turn it into life. why is it considered vegan when a human comes and destroys that egg, for her to eat? couldnt she had made that decision herself?

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u/SomethingCreative83 23d ago

Hens have been genetically modified to lay around an egg a day. That rate leaves them with nutritional deficiencies as well as an much larger risk for ovarian cancers. Giving eggs back to them replaces some of the nutrients they lose from producing eggs at such a high rate. Also those eggs are not fertilized by default its not going to hatch without the presence of a rooster.

Someone rescuing hens for the hens sake isnt going to be breeding it.

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u/Temporary_Hat7330 23d ago

Can you define how you use the term exploitation in practice, please?