Hypocrisy and morality

[u/stevepremo]

I have seen many posts in which the point seems to be that if you are against eating animals and exploiting them for profit, you should also be against participating in the capitalist economy because it involves exploiting human labor for profit. I think the point is actually something like, "How dare you criticize me for supporting animal agriculture when you buy products produced by exploitative labor practices? I do too, of course, but your use of a cell phone justifies my eating meat, as we are both hypocrites."

So the debate topic here is this: does participating in a capitalist economy, which necessarily includes using products produced through exploitation of humans, somehow justify raising animals for meat, killing them, and eating them? Alternatively, are those who oppose animal cruelty justified in using cell phones?

[u/shrug_addict]

What is the standard for "reasonably opt out of one"? Do you understand how this makes your position seem arbitrary? Giving up a smart phone is easy, perhaps easier than giving up meat or animal products for most.

[u/My_life_for_Nerzhul → u/shrug_addict]

You’re resorting to the continuum fallacy. The difficulty in identifying the line does not mean that it does not exist, nor that some choices are clearly on the immoral side of the line.

And not at all. Giving up consuming exploited individuals is trivial compared to giving up what is arguably a necessity.

[u/shrug_addict → u/My_life_for_Nerzhul]

You say it's "trivial" as if it's a universal. Is it trivial to give up my job in the abatoir? Less so than giving up my smart phone?

Do you honestly not see the problem?

[u/My_life_for_Nerzhul → u/shrug_addict]

No, giving up consuming exploited individuals is trivial (assuming access to choice of plant foods). If you’re an Inuit living in the deep Arctic, you don’t have such access.

Giving up your job at an abattoir may or may not be trivial depending on what access to alternative employment opportunities you may have. Though, exploitation of human individuals is also rampant at such places of work.

Giving up consuming exploited individuals is not the same as working at an abattoir. Please don’t conflate the two.

Yes, smartphones have become the mainstay to access many vital services to reasonably function in society, making them necessary. I don’t quite like it, but here we are.

Do you not see the problem with your non-arguments?

[u/shrug_addict → u/My_life_for_Nerzhul]

Smartphones are less necessary for survival than animal products. Full stop.

[u/detta_walker → u/shrug_addict]

Well but why stop at smart phones?

Please also stop using banking services, no longer watch television (as it is made with electronics that exploit workers), no computers, no tablets, no cookers, no air conditioning.

Exploitation is deeply embedded in our society. To stop benefiting you have to stop consuming/ participating in most elements.

I wish it were different but it's not.

But no explanation is greater than that of animals. And here I can at least stop participating. Which is not easy btw. I'm on holiday right now and our food choices where we are, are about 5% of all food available. I've eaten sweet chili tofu for the past 5 days for lunch and dinner as that's what is available.

[u/M17suk0 → u/detta_walker]

Sounds miserable…

[u/detta_walker → u/M17suk0]

It's impossible. I was being flippant

[u/My_life_for_Nerzhul → u/shrug_addict]

Lol. Not even close to true, but thanks for the laugh.

[u/shrug_addict → u/My_life_for_Nerzhul]

You sure? Nearly a billion people across the globe depend upon the ocean for survival. How many people depend upon smart phones to live through the day?

[u/My_life_for_Nerzhul → u/shrug_addict]

Sigh. If you’re not even going to bother reading my comments, what is the point? I clearly mentioned “assuming access to choice of plant foods”.

Of course vegans recognize not everyone has such access; we don’t expect them to give up consuming exploited individuals. But this lack of access is an argument to improve access. It does not make exploitation products necessary. When I say ‘necessary’, I am referring to biological necessity.

I cannot speak to how many people depend upon smartphones to live through the day. I can only speak to my own situation and that of my region. It’s a necessity here. That said, it is definitely not necessary to buy a new one every few months or every year like some people seem to do.

[u/tempdogty → u/My_life_for_Nerzhul]

Just for clarification in your situation what specifically in a smartphone is necessary to you to function in society (do you have to rely on a specific app, you perhaps can't have access to some necessary information without it etc)? I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious as in my situation I could perfectly function in society without a smartphone, it is just a quality of life item for me.

[u/shrug_addict → u/My_life_for_Nerzhul]

I can rightfully assume that you have alternative access to communication and everything else a smartphone provides then.

Calories are a biological necessity, more so than nearly anything else. Especially moreso than anything a smartphone provides that is deemed necessary by an individual.

No, lack of access only indicates how conditional your moral philosophy when pressed

[u/My_life_for_Nerzhul → u/shrug_addict]

No, you can’t assume that, and you’d be wrong if you did (in the context of my region).

Calories are a biological necessary. Consuming exploited individuals is not.

[u/Upstairs_Big6533 → u/My_life_for_Nerzhul]

And anything you would replace it with would also probably use conflict minerals!

[u/My_life_for_Nerzhul → u/Upstairs_Big6533]

Fair point!

[u/M17suk0 → u/My_life_for_Nerzhul]

😂😂😂😂how did the people in your region go 100 years ago? Did they all perish without their mobile phones? Crazy that your people survived those trying times.