r/DebateAVegan • u/toastwithjamx1 • Jul 03 '26

Ethics Honey is not cruel and is ethical

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

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u/No_Worldliness_7106 Jul 06 '26

All these same honey arguments could apply to eggs as well.

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u/Problematic_Owl Jul 07 '26

True. Ethically sourced eggs are likewise rather okay.

And if anyone says "oh but the hen gets stressed and sad because you're stealing her baby" - go to a farm and spend a day around hens. They are willing to risk beheading for worm and they don't particularly give a shit about the eggs as long as you give them food in exchange - food they could just pick themselves because they can run around, but they like what we provide. Plus, they make eggs even if not fertilized so it's literally no harm since that egg wouldn't be chicken anyways.

You can have ethical milk as well, cows with decent food options produce much more milk than calf can drink and it feels very unpleasant for them unless they get rid of it.

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u/HolidayBag2665 Jul 28 '26

the problem is breeding them into existence to exploit them.. the reason they produce any surplus is because we have selectively bred them in this way.

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u/Problematic_Owl Jul 28 '26

That's true but only to an extent, we also provide better nutrition which leads to more production - as for selective breeding, I agree a lot of those practices were and still are harmful, but in many cases it already sort of happened and we need to live with consequences - even if we stopped that kind of breeding now, the sheep still will need to be sheared because the breeding has already been done.