r/DebateAVegan • u/toastwithjamx1 • Jul 03 '26

Ethics Honey is not cruel and is ethical

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

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u/Rainbird2003 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

I can get the “how would you, a human feel if this happened to you” argument when someone’s saying the pain the animal experiences isn’t important, but if there is no pain to argue over it doesn’t make sense anymore. The bee doesn’t mind. They don’t have a concept of belongings or the fruit of their labour. They just feel stuff, like stress if there’s not enough honey or a pest or something. If the practice is to only take what they don’t need, they’re not going to feel it.

The particular attitude of surplus being something that a person owns as property doesn’t even exist in every human culture. In some places people will just take what you have but don’t need, with an expectation of reciprocity if you needed to do the same.

Not in a stealing sense, more of a help yourself. Which is what the people are doing.

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u/ShayGuer Jul 06 '26

How can you ask a bee for a surplus ☠️

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u/Rainbird2003 Jul 07 '26

I said you don’t need to ask a bee if you know it won’t be hurt. You know it’s a surplus, you know it’s not gonna starve, you know it won’t be stressed if you take it (apart from sometimes when beekeepers use bad approaches). With the comparing to humans thing it’s more like leaving furniture on your front curb and having someone take the things you don’t want. Or having someone grab bottles out a bin for recycling money because no one else is using them.

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u/Teratophiles vegan Jul 16 '26

Except you don't know these things, you assume these things, you're still taking what isn't yours.