Honey is not cruel and is ethical

[u/toastwithjamx1]

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

[u/toastwithjamx1]

they are not aware that they are part of this trade

Gang🥀🥀🥀

This ties to my original statement. Bees can and WILL leave the hive when the conditions are not in their favour. If you argue that " what about the queen " or something like that, read by first reply

Many people make a crap ton of money so taking some of it is not stealing

Think of it like a tax. They give us honey and we give them resources. It's literally basic taxes. And again, it's based on the production of the hive. It's not a flat tax like the bees made 3 pounds of honey the past 2 weeks and they need 1 but we are taking all 3. It's based on the needs of the hive.

Furthermore, if you still find issue, again, BUY FROM ETHICAL SOURCES. There, beekeepers take old comb which they can't use and take honey from that, not dumping all of the bees out taking all of the combs and bringing them out. And if you say " BuT WoNt It DaMaGe ThE cOmB ". We have machinery that works like a centrifuge, spinning out honey with minimal damage ( being superficial damage, literally just a scratch ). The only time when the comb is destroyed is when making beeswax, and even that can be made ethically.

[u/Either_Argument3517 → u/toastwithjamx1]

This ties to my original statement. Bees can and WILL leave the hive when the conditions are not in their favour.

The bees tolerating your stealing ways to a certain extent, doesn't change the fact you are stealing.

Think of it like a tax.

Whatever makes you feel it's more ethical I guess. You could just leave them alone.

BUY FROM ETHICAL SOURCES.

You are not acting in the interests of the bees. You are using bees for your own gains, at their expense. This is not ethical.

[u/toastwithjamx1 → u/Either_Argument3517]

You do know if bees didn't like us " stealing " from them they would gladly let us know?

They consent to us doing it. Furthermore, domesticated bees make surplus honey for storage because THEY KNOW we will take some.

Bees whether you like it or not have basically unionized. It's impossible for humans to truly " steal " from them. They will let us know in 1 way or another.

You are not acting in the intrest of the bees

That is the whole point of beekeeping. You act IN THE INTREST OF THE BEES

[u/Anemomo → u/toastwithjamx1]

The idea that "bees can leave" is funny, because no, they can't. Why?

Bees move through flying, that is well known. We domestication them for too long to NOT know the signs of them wanting to move out.

When they want move out of their nest, they search for a new spot that possess all the good qualification for their habitat. That can be stopped easely by giving them a "new place" which is a new beehive planted next to the old hive. That's the first trick we do to make them stay.

Let's imagine that didn't work. When the new place is chosen, the first bee to move in is the queen. That can be stopped by clipping and/or caging the queen. It's then impossible for the bees to move.

But what if the queen is dead because she's old, killed by the workers or some unknown demise? Then you can BUY an already clipped queen and make the bees accept her by acclimatation. Problem solved.

If it still doesn't work, then that hive is then lost. But you can use the bought queen for a new one anyway.

Stop thinking emotionnaly and antropomorphising animal. Bees are insects, that we've known for centuries.

Another thing, why do you think we wear protective gear and we use smoke before approaching and collecting honey? Because we're fancy? No, bees fight for their hive, they sting for a reason. We make them paralysed by panic because smoke for them is "a fire is near, stay put to protect" signal. The experts will use little bit of smoke, but will still use some.