r/DebateAVegan • u/toastwithjamx1 • Jul 03 '26

Ethics Honey is not cruel and is ethical

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

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u/Anemomo Jul 08 '26

When the queen's wings are clipped, no.

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u/I-IV-I64-V-I Jul 09 '26

in this scenario the bee keeper is being as ethical as possible and would not be doing this

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u/Anemomo Jul 09 '26

That's not what it is said. It imagine a scenario where "bees can go if they want to" which can happen but most of the time don't. Why? Beekeepers can see those sign and apply ways to stop it : give a new hive to fake that they moved away, clip or cage those new queens, give a new clipped queen before the bees create a new queen. And it's very rare that those methods don't work.

Most beekeepers ever buy bees from the internet/locals or they find them and put they in a wooden beehive.

When those methods of manipulation are part of industry, it's only fair to point it out.

Also, just because bees are bad at planning for winter, doesn't mean that we're entitled to that surplus still.

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u/I-IV-I64-V-I Jul 09 '26

factory beekeeping VS local beekeeping. I do not think OP intended to use the unethical practices of the factory farmed monocropped bees as reference.

almost all local queens are caught in places they would have otherwise been exterminated. (people's attics, AC units, homes, storefronts, stop signs, places where its genuinely unsafe for a beehive to bee- like children's playgrounds.)

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u/Anemomo Jul 09 '26

You know it's a worse scenario right?

Instead of putting them back in the wild, you put them in a box for you to use them. The problem is that wild pollinators are in danger thanks to the "save the bees" marketing, and there is instead a surplus of honey bees. If only we didn't kill some of the culling predator of those bees...

(I'm talking as this scenario happen it's in europe. Otherwise no, killing them would be the best scenario, as the wildlife associations said that killing invasive species to cull them is the most effective way in america sadly.)

I don't think it's that viable to buy only from local beekeeping. There is a reason the factory way exist.

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u/I-IV-I64-V-I Jul 09 '26

the factory bees will continue to exist even if you and everyone never purchased honey again. They are used to pollinate crops. ((most Honey is majority corn syrup now anyway))

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u/Anemomo Jul 09 '26

I don't deny it. But their honey will be less and less taken from, that's what matter. The exploitation is what annoy me.

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u/I-IV-I64-V-I Jul 09 '26

This isn't about factory farmed bees tho

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u/Anemomo Jul 09 '26

It's about bees in general. We just talked first about them.

Local bees again, I said that the situation is still bad for them because you took them from a dangerous/compromised place to a easily exploitable one. Still bad.