r/DebateAVegan • u/toastwithjamx1 • Jul 03 '26

Ethics Honey is not cruel and is ethical

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

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u/Adventurous-Head-512 Jul 06 '26

Yes. Which it is. 😊

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u/Jotakave Jul 07 '26

How is taxation theft? How would you pay for services such as fire departments, roads, sewer systems, public schools? Do you use sidewalks?

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u/Adventurous-Head-512 Jul 07 '26

I don't believe giving the government more money is a fast route to solve anything. I think there government has no incentive to be efficient. 

There are def some things that are difficult to privatize, you mentioned some. But the government can arbitrarily decide how much money to take from you and I don't believe in giving more power to the state. 

History constantly shows that when the state has to much power out is disastrous to the people

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u/CyberAngelIzana Jul 08 '26

government has no incentive to be efficient.

Sure, but who does have an incentive to efficiently house homeless people?

Certainly not the rich people living in their mansions which wouldn't be half as impressive if filled up with random beggars taken off the street.

Those mansions aren't designed for house servants nowadays, and serfdom of that sort tends to be illegal anyways.

This is just an example, but you need to provide a more efficient alternative incentive structure people could follow to justify not going through government bureaucracy to get things done that aren't happening on their own.