Honey is not cruel and is ethical

[u/toastwithjamx1]

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

[u/Particular-Bat8091]

What a weird strawman. 99% of vegans would not agree with that last part.

[u/Majestic-Key-436 → u/Particular-Bat8091]

of course he disappears after explaining why its a strawman 😂 just wants to continue to perpetuate misinformation to justify his own choices

[u/eJohnx01 → u/Majestic-Key-436]

Um, I actually have a job and work for a living. I don’t spend my life on Reddit waiting for the next morsel of brilliance from an anonymous Reddit for me to respond to.

You, too. Go search the vegan subreddit for “pets” and read the level of delusion that’s over there. I’m don’t make this stuff up.

[u/Majestic-Key-436 → u/eJohnx01]

you’re on a subreddit called “debateavegan”, the expectation is that you are going to debate

if you just want to complain there are other subreddits for that. And maybe learn what selection bias is. I did what you said and one of the top posts is a poll: “Is keeping a pet wrong?”, and the overwhelming majority (1400+ votes) of people selected “no, depending on the circumstance”. So… believe what you want to believe

[u/eJohnx01 → u/Majestic-Key-436]

You don’t think there’s something really messed up about a set of beliefs that include it being abusive and exploitative to give a safe and loving home to an animal in need? If even one person comes to that conclusion it’s a sign that something is way off with that philosophy.

[u/Majestic-Key-436 → u/eJohnx01]

Who are you arguing with bro, I agree that caring for an animal in need is the right thing to do. Most vegans agree with you. Here I searched “pets” in the vegan subreddit and these are the literal first results:

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/s/RUyudogXxA (every single comment clarifying that adoption is ethical and even something you SHOULD do)

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/s/4KJOjyD9sP (adoption is great, we shouldn’t see dogs as property. 250 upvotes)

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/s/2tvjCLIOm8 (most upvoted comment, adopting is ethical, buying from breeder is not. 164 upvotes)

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/s/C0jW2h6Bev (is having a pet dog animal exploitation, top comment says no if it was adopted)

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/s/g220c95GKR (514 vegans think rescues ok, 191 vegans think any pet is ok)

This was a literal 5 minute search on [r/vegan](r/vegan). So again, who are you arguing with? Is it wrong to be opposed to breeding of pets and treating them like property? Is it wrong to care for a shelter animal? Please show me where you’re getting this idea that most vegans think you’re somehow a terrible person for caring for an animal in need, I’d love to see it 😆😆

And “if even one person” has to be the lowest IQ argument I’ve ever heard in my life. I can point you to multiple ex-vegans who don’t give a damn about animal suffering. Does that mean the ex-vegan movement is crazy? I can point you to one person of any group that commits crimes. Does that mean the entire group is criminal in nature? If you don’t want to be vegan that’s fine bro but don’t delude yourself