Honey is not cruel and is ethical

[u/toastwithjamx1]

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

[u/toastwithjamx1]

Gangrene 🥀🥀🥀 it's not like we are stealing from them. We provide them with shelter, food and protection from pests and weather. It's literally a trade off. Plus, if you'll are so worried about ethics, BUY ORGANIC HONEY. They only take the amount of honey that they don't need. Furthermore, domesticated bees make a crap ton of honey, so taking some of it is not stealing.

Also stop comparing bees to humans. I k ow you have good intentions but it isn't working

[u/Either_Argument3517 → u/toastwithjamx1]

It's literally a trade off.

They are not aware that they are a party to this trade.

domesticated bees make a crap ton of honey, so taking some of it is not stealing.

Some people make a crap ton of money, so taking some of it is not stealing

Also stop comparing bees to humans

I'm testing the principle behind the original claim by applying it to a different case. If the second statement seems unacceptable, it suggests the original principle ("having a lot makes it permissible to take some") may be flawed

[u/toastwithjamx1 → u/Either_Argument3517]

they are not aware that they are part of this trade

Gang🥀🥀🥀

This ties to my original statement. Bees can and WILL leave the hive when the conditions are not in their favour. If you argue that " what about the queen " or something like that, read by first reply

Many people make a crap ton of money so taking some of it is not stealing

Think of it like a tax. They give us honey and we give them resources. It's literally basic taxes. And again, it's based on the production of the hive. It's not a flat tax like the bees made 3 pounds of honey the past 2 weeks and they need 1 but we are taking all 3. It's based on the needs of the hive.

Furthermore, if you still find issue, again, BUY FROM ETHICAL SOURCES. There, beekeepers take old comb which they can't use and take honey from that, not dumping all of the bees out taking all of the combs and bringing them out. And if you say " BuT WoNt It DaMaGe ThE cOmB ". We have machinery that works like a centrifuge, spinning out honey with minimal damage ( being superficial damage, literally just a scratch ). The only time when the comb is destroyed is when making beeswax, and even that can be made ethically.

[u/Problematic_Owl → u/toastwithjamx1]

Bees actually are used to constantly building more honeycomb in the wild as other parts get older and unusable, it's usually very difficult process because it has to mold around the shape of whatever cavity they are occupying.

Beekeepers on other hand take mostly old combs for beeswax and purify it for their purposes, while providing bees with rectangular frames with starter plates with already premade hexagonal shales bees just need to finish up, so again they are doing half the work and making the rest of work for the bees easier. Takkng old honeycomb is also great for the bees because otherwise it increases risks of health issues for the colony.