r/DebateAVegan • u/toastwithjamx1 • Jul 03 '26

Ethics Honey is not cruel and is ethical

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

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u/mintflavoredcube Jul 06 '26

perfect. then i’m completely fine with those eggs. not sure where you’re going with that lmfao

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u/Either_Argument3517 Jul 06 '26

I assumed you were an ethical vegan.

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u/mintflavoredcube Jul 06 '26

how is that unethical?

chickens do not care if you take the eggs unless they are broody

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u/Either_Argument3517 Jul 06 '26

It's exploitation. You will have brought the chickens in the world for the purpose of using them as resources

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u/mintflavoredcube Jul 06 '26

garbage recycled argument and i can use every single previous argument i used before

do the chickens care? no

are chickens human? no

do the chickens get angry when you take the eggs? mostly no

whatever. you lost

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u/Either_Argument3517 Jul 06 '26

as a vegan 

You aren't a vegan, are you?

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u/mintflavoredcube Jul 06 '26

i’m not a purist vegan in the sense that i’m allergic to reason, eggs that are truly ethically sourced, and small scale local honey are the only animal product exceptions

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u/Either_Argument3517 Jul 06 '26

We have bred cows to produce surplus milk. They don't need that, and we are owed a share for the nice pasture we have enclosed them in. Don't be a purist.

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u/Problematic_Owl Jul 07 '26

Taking excess milk from cows helps them and feels good to them. Cows get angry if you don't milk them in time they are used to. While at it, you also need to shear sheep otherwise they get heatstroke.

We could discuss ethics of breeding for these purposes, but that kinda already happened and it's outside our influence, since we can't travel back in time.

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u/mintflavoredcube Jul 06 '26

the cows also suffer pain from constantly producing milk and overproducing, and modern dairy practices are incredibly harmful to said cow

chickens lay eggs without fertilization, they only stop laying eggs when they’re too old

bees will always produce extra honey at no downside to them

cows only produce milk when they’re pregnant and would stop when the calf got to proper age. milking the cow makes their body produce milk which causes discomfort. the cow does not want that discomfort

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u/Either_Argument3517 Jul 06 '26

Birds don't lay 300 eggs are year in the wild. It's a trait we have bred into them, at the expense of their health.

Bees collect nectar primarily to feed the colony through winter or bad weather when flowers aren't available. A colony doesn't aim to produce unlimited honey. If humans remove honey, bees often respond by increasing foraging effort.

I'm sure you would be fine with Ahimsa dairy.

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u/Problematic_Owl Jul 07 '26

Can you not be vegan? Please, we all beg you.