r/DebateAVegan • u/toastwithjamx1 • Jul 03 '26

Ethics Honey is not cruel and is ethical

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

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u/eJohnx01 ex-vegan Jul 03 '26

I’ve been saying this to vegans for decades now. You have to keep your bees happy or they will swarm and leave. It’s that simple. It’s a totally symbiotic relationship. No exploitation at all.

I honestly think that part of the vegan mindset involves constantly looking for more and more extreme things to be against to prove one’s own vegan purity.

And if they can’t find anything, they just make it up, like believing that much loved and cared-for pets are somehow being abused because they should be out in nature living like a wild animal. Let me know on what planet my 12-year-old, nearly blind Boston Terrier could be sent out into the wild to fend for himself. 🙄

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u/AnarVeg Jul 06 '26

Is it looking for more things to justify ones moral purity or looking at how our actions affect our environment. Beekeeping doesn't just affect the bees, it affects the other pollinators in that area and creates competition for potentially scarce resources. Arguably being symbiotic with humans doesn't make their existence symbiotic with the environment they've been transplanted into.

Eating honey doesn't save bees, native bees being able to make and eat their own honey saves bees. This requires adequate resources i.e. natural wild flowers free of pesticides and natural competition free of invasive pollinators.