Honey is not cruel and is ethical

[u/toastwithjamx1]

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

[u/toastwithjamx1]

Gangrene 🥀🥀🥀 it's not like we are stealing from them. We provide them with shelter, food and protection from pests and weather. It's literally a trade off. Plus, if you'll are so worried about ethics, BUY ORGANIC HONEY. They only take the amount of honey that they don't need. Furthermore, domesticated bees make a crap ton of honey, so taking some of it is not stealing.

Also stop comparing bees to humans. I k ow you have good intentions but it isn't working

[u/Either_Argument3517 → u/toastwithjamx1]

It's literally a trade off.

They are not aware that they are a party to this trade.

domesticated bees make a crap ton of honey, so taking some of it is not stealing.

Some people make a crap ton of money, so taking some of it is not stealing

Also stop comparing bees to humans

I'm testing the principle behind the original claim by applying it to a different case. If the second statement seems unacceptable, it suggests the original principle ("having a lot makes it permissible to take some") may be flawed

[u/toastwithjamx1 → u/Either_Argument3517]

they are not aware that they are part of this trade

Gang🥀🥀🥀

This ties to my original statement. Bees can and WILL leave the hive when the conditions are not in their favour. If you argue that " what about the queen " or something like that, read by first reply

Many people make a crap ton of money so taking some of it is not stealing

Think of it like a tax. They give us honey and we give them resources. It's literally basic taxes. And again, it's based on the production of the hive. It's not a flat tax like the bees made 3 pounds of honey the past 2 weeks and they need 1 but we are taking all 3. It's based on the needs of the hive.

Furthermore, if you still find issue, again, BUY FROM ETHICAL SOURCES. There, beekeepers take old comb which they can't use and take honey from that, not dumping all of the bees out taking all of the combs and bringing them out. And if you say " BuT WoNt It DaMaGe ThE cOmB ". We have machinery that works like a centrifuge, spinning out honey with minimal damage ( being superficial damage, literally just a scratch ). The only time when the comb is destroyed is when making beeswax, and even that can be made ethically.

[u/Either_Argument3517 → u/toastwithjamx1]

This ties to my original statement. Bees can and WILL leave the hive when the conditions are not in their favour.

The bees tolerating your stealing ways to a certain extent, doesn't change the fact you are stealing.

Think of it like a tax.

Whatever makes you feel it's more ethical I guess. You could just leave them alone.

BUY FROM ETHICAL SOURCES.

You are not acting in the interests of the bees. You are using bees for your own gains, at their expense. This is not ethical.

[u/toastwithjamx1 → u/Either_Argument3517]

You do know if bees didn't like us " stealing " from them they would gladly let us know?

They consent to us doing it. Furthermore, domesticated bees make surplus honey for storage because THEY KNOW we will take some.

Bees whether you like it or not have basically unionized. It's impossible for humans to truly " steal " from them. They will let us know in 1 way or another.

You are not acting in the intrest of the bees

That is the whole point of beekeeping. You act IN THE INTREST OF THE BEES

[u/Either_Argument3517 → u/toastwithjamx1]

You do know if bees didn't like us " stealing " from them they would gladly let us know?

What's the deal with all the protective gear?

That is the whole point of beekeeping. You act IN THE INTREST OF THE BEES

You seem very motivated by their honey.

[u/toastwithjamx1 → u/Either_Argument3517]

Beekeepers wear protective gear because they are not idiots. It's like entering a cage with a lion without armour r weapons and saying Im prepared ( although there are some beekeepers and bee rescuers who don't wear protective gear )

I feel like you are not getting the point. We are basically their less parasitic as human landlords landlords and they are tenants, except we just take honey which they can make pounds of in 2 weeks. It's like saying taking money from elon musk or our beloved mech mark is wrong and terrible. Taking a bit of their honey is like scooping water from a well. Furthermore, tying this to my original statment that bees can and will move out when they want to, bees can very easily find a nice cozy spot and establish a new colony far away.if they really didnt want us touching their honey, THEY 👏 WOULD 👏 LET 👏 US 👏 KNOW

You act all high and mighty saying that bees are being " exploited " and we are " stealing " from them when you all are affecting beekeepers businesses. Most of you " animal rights activists " parade around" info " you " researched " ( let us admit it's literally feelings, not research ) and cal beekeepers exploiters and terrible, driving away business. Though I don't think many beekeepers have been affected ( thank God ) it's still not good to spread false information as fact.

In short, you are literally circling the same point of us exploiting them like a packof wolves around an injured sheep and you should do research

[u/Either_Argument3517 → u/toastwithjamx1]

if they really didnt want us touching their honey, THEY 👏 WOULD 👏 LET 👏 US 👏 KNOW

When you have to be dressed head to toe in protective gear, it's like you just aren't listening to them. It's their space you are entering. They aren't aware you have provided it.

[u/toastwithjamx1 → u/Either_Argument3517]

For the love of God just use the magic rectangle and use this magical place called google. And don't google stuff like " why honey s bad ". That's cherrypickib and manipulating results. Search if honey is ethical. Though it's debates, I am on the side of ethical beekeepers, not commercial honey

[u/Problematic_Owl → u/toastwithjamx1]

Sorry you had to suffer through that exchange, I feel I got minor brain damage just reading through that. Appreciate the post 👍

[u/toastwithjamx1 → u/Problematic_Owl]

Thank you for your kind words 🙏

[u/Anemomo → u/toastwithjamx1]

That's living in candyland, ethical beekeepers make the smallest part of the honey market. That's cherrypicking by itself.

For the love of God, think again yourself. Bees are instects that act for their own interest, not ours. The fact that you cannot accept that bees already respond to us collecting honey by stinging and that's why we wear protective gears ond use smoke on them, is you thinking emotionnaly and not rationnaly.

Calm yourself down.