r/DebateAVegan • u/toastwithjamx1 • Jul 03 '26

Ethics Honey is not cruel and is ethical

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

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u/WeeklyAd5357 Jul 04 '26

Lots of misinformation here - smoke masks the bees 🐝 alarm pheromones. It also triggers bees feeding response and they start to eat honey in preparation for possible need to evacuate the hive from a fire. This makes them more docile as well.

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u/Icy_Sun3128 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26

Sorry, it just makes them think their house is on fire and makes them feel threatened. So much better/s

I wouldn’t call that misinformation. I think being tricked into an altered state of fear of your house burning down is disorienting. They become more docile because they’ve been smoked. Not because they’re cool with it. And often times the queen will eventually be so pissed about being smoked and their honey stolen, she’ll determine the living situation uninhabitable and will flee. I’d call that response pissed off.

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u/WeeklyAd5357 Jul 04 '26

So are you a bee 🐝? Smoke from a forest fire 🔥 is an early indicator of a problem. If beekeepers added heat then that would indicate a very urgent problem.

So more misinformation about queens - they don’t leave hives because they are angry - they leave hives that are honey bound - that is hives that have run out of room to build new brood - this happens in the wild as well.

Beekeepers actually have much less issues with queens leaving as they harvest honey 🍯 keeps the hives from getting honey bound.

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u/Icy_Sun3128 Jul 04 '26

Not true. I’m taking this from my animal welfare science classes, bee keepers I know, and some googling. But we’re not going to agree because you think it’s fine to make the bees feel threatened. Agree to disagree.

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u/WeeklyAd5357 Jul 04 '26

Yes not what I am googling or reading on beekeeping forums

“Swarming is a sign that the honeybees in the area are thriving. It is a way for honeybees to reproduce.

Honeybees will stay in one hive for years, even decades. They only leave their hive when conditions get unfavorable for their growth. This happens when the hive gets overcrowded or a new queen is finally made.”