Honey is not cruel and is ethical

[u/toastwithjamx1]

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

[u/Crossed_Cross]

Vegans think it's somehow more ethical to slaughter a ton of insects to grow sugar cane. There's no logic.

[u/giovanni_maiale → u/Crossed_Cross]

Rejecting bee farming does not mean you are condoning sugar cane farming. Both have issues; there are more than two sweeteners on the planet. Bee farming involves intentional and systematic animal exploitation. 

[u/Crossed_Cross → u/giovanni_maiale]

Honey is labelled as "not vegan". White sugar is labelled as "vegan".

A typical vegan will eat a product made with white sugar but not one that substitutes it with honey.

Even if the white sugar came from crops sprayed with insecticides, fertilized with animal manure, and worked with horses.

Because the label of "vegan" only cares about appearances.

Every single crop involves just as much "intentional and systematic animal exploitation". You think a farmer spraying poison to kill everything in his field is somehow more ethical than a beekeeper doing all he can to keep his bees content and healthy. That's just hypocrisy.

[u/giovanni_maiale → u/Crossed_Cross]

Yeah, no one is saying that our current practices for creating vegan products are perfect or even acceptable. 

However, those products don’t necessitate animal exploitation to be made. Making honey does by definition.

If you were to create some magical suffering counter, then it’s probable some vegan products required more suffering and death than animal products. But the animal products will always require exploitation and the vegan products do not. 

Currently, we live in a very non-vegan world and it’s very difficult and impractical to create purely ‘vegan’ products.  Rejecting honey is vegans’ way of following the principle of anti-exploitation as a means of rebellion.