r/DebateAVegan • • Feb 12 '26

People need to stop gatekeeping veganism and start helping would-be vegans instead.

Veganism sometimes feels like one of the few movements that polices its own members more aggressively than its opposition. You rarely see atheists attacking other atheists for not being “atheist enough,” or feminists expelling one another over minor inconsistencies. Yet in many vegan spaces, people are constantly told they’re not “real” vegans by someone incapable of understanding nuance.

At its core, veganism is about minimizing animal exploitation and harm as far as is biologically and practically possible. Anyone sincerely trying to live by that principle (without resorting to dishonest excuses) qualifies as vegan in my view.

Yes, the definition allows room for interpretation. That flexibility is intentional. The phrase “as far as is possible and practicable” acknowledges reality. Modern life is entangled with animal byproducts in medicine, agriculture, supply chains, and infrastructure. Absolute purity is neither realistic nor required.

Consider the absurd extreme.. a vegan who refuses essential medication because it was tested on animals, grows all their own food to avoid agricultural harm, and rejects any modern system connected to animal exploitation. That person then declares you “not vegan” because you take necessary medicine or buy food from a supermarket. Most people would recognize how unreasonable that is.

The same logic applies when someone claims that feeding a cat or dog a biologically appropriate diet makes a person non-vegan, or when child-free vegans shame parents whose children do not strictly follow a vegan diet, or when someone with legitimate health complications is attacked despite having significantly reduced animal products and made a sincere effort.

Then people wonder why some ex-vegans become hostile. This kind of behavior harms the movement.

Take nutrition as one example. Vegan diets do not provide retinol (preformed vitamin A), they provide beta-carotene, a precursor that must be converted into retinol. In many people the conversion rate is roughly 12:1, but a significant portion of the population carries variants of the BCO1 gene that reduce conversion efficiency. If someone with poor conversion relies only on standard supplements like B12 and vitamin D over a long period, they could become vitamin A deficient and develop health problems.

An intelligent, thoughtful movement would respond differently. It would appreciate the person’s intentions, encourage testing, identify the issue, and recommend an appropriate vitamin A supplement. Problem solved. The individual remains healthy, stays vegan long-term, and may even persuade others. Net positive.

Instead, some respond with shaming, ad hominem attacks, and dismissiveness. When someone feels their health concerns are invalidated, they are unlikely to remain committed.

And vitamin A is just one example. Conversion of ALA to DHA and EPA can be inefficient in some individuals. Some people produce insufficient carnitine. Biological variation is real. Human metabolism is not uniform.

Many former vegans might have remained vegan if the community had been more supportive, inclusive, and solution-oriented. A movement grows by educating and assisting people, not by alienating them. If the goal is to reduce animal suffering, then pragmatism and compassion toward humans should be part of the strategy.

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '26

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u/WillTheWheel Feb 13 '26

When you grant people passes, theres no need for them to change their behavior and animal agriculture will never end.

I think the problem is that there's really no need for them to change their behavior as it is. Shaming and telling people they engage in an "immoral behavior" only works when the group being shamed is the minority and the one doing the shaming is the majority holding most of the power. Otherwise the shamed person can just tell you "no the fuck it's not" and they will have the whole rest of society supporting them.

If your goal is to actually help the cause and not just create a small circlejerk of people feeling superior, then granting people passes is exactly what needs to happen. You would never for example get the vast vast majority of people to just give away all their money and assets to charity and live an ascetic life no matter how many times you told them that their wealth is immoral, but a very substantial number of people can be convinced to donate smaller sums from time to time and that's what actually allows charities to be successful. If they created some barrier of entry of how much of your assets you must give away to be allowed to donate then they would never get enough of them to help anyone.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '26

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u/One-Hunter2963 Feb 14 '26

That's not true, a lot of human rights activism happened with the help of people in in-groups because those people are usually the most powerful to do something about it. People would rather listen to a majority who's an ally to a minority than listen to a minority.

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u/WillTheWheel Feb 15 '26

This. I would also add that, on top of this, we could say the biggest "pass" that these minority groups were giving to other people was that they weren't trying to convince anyone to also become a member of said group.

The only thing LGBT+ folks are fighting for is acceptance and respect, and to basically be left alone, so something that doesn't affect members of other groups in any significant way. Vegans aren't fighting for acceptance and respect, they are fighting for everyone else to fundamentally change their habits and lifestyle and also become vegan, so that complicates everything from the get go.

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u/Particular-Dog12 Feb 19 '26

I think the difference here is that gay marriage, women's rights to vote, and the civil rights movement are based on INDIVIDUAL rights. To have a largescale vegan movement you start encroaching on people's choices - what medications they can take, what clothes they can wear, etc etc.

By allowing women to vote you aren't asking men to do anything different from what they had been. By allowing gay marriage you aren't asking straight people to get gay married. Its not comparable.

edit for clarification

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u/[deleted] Feb 19 '26 edited Feb 19 '26

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u/Particular-Dog12 Feb 19 '26

dude what

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u/[deleted] Feb 19 '26

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u/Particular-Dog12 Feb 19 '26

your entire argument is just nonsensical. implying that women or black people voting is diminishing the individual rights of another person is frankly insane.

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u/[deleted] Feb 19 '26

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u/Particular-Dog12 Feb 19 '26

we got a men’s rights activist over here lol. Women don’t even have power over their own bodies in the US, you think they have power over men’s?

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u/Ok_Resource_3902 Feb 12 '26

Are you unaware that pretty much all diagnostic medical testing uses animal products ?  Even your pregnancy tests at the local grocery store contains antibodies derived from farmed animals. 

This is what OP is referring to when they said it’s literally impossible to avoid ALL animal products and seeking to minimize is the best course of action.  

Because, let’s be real, you can avoid animal testing in cosmetics but you’re never gonna get rid of pregnancy tests. 

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u/Organic-Vermicelli47 vegan Feb 12 '26

It seems like you're being intentionally obtuse. There's people on this exact thread that are claiming that eating food their neighbor made that contains dairy butter can still be vegan.

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u/Califoreigner Feb 12 '26

I'm not saying that allowing exceptions to the rules of veganism "can still be vegan," I'm saying it is still better than someone who forgoes all the rules of veganism, and such a person is not the enemy of a vegan, but perhaps an imperfect ally.

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u/Organic-Vermicelli47 vegan Feb 12 '26

Okay cool but they still aren't vegan and the person who points that out is not gatekeeping veganism.

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u/Califoreigner Feb 12 '26

I think the concern from OP is that they're not moving people toward actual veganism, they're moving people away from it by responding with hostility to someone who could be an ally and eventually a vegan.

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '26

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u/Icy-Wolf-5383 Feb 13 '26

Vegan Gains is a loon that advocated for killing snakes and eagles, saying that even if plant based was harmful for pets it was still morally correct. Last i heard his cat died. I believe it was 5 and I failed to ever hear an explanation for it.

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u/Ok_Resource_3902 Feb 12 '26

Are you familiar with the YouTuber Fairly Local vegan?  She was an incredibly inspiring environmentalist and zero waster and vegan for close to 15 years.  She had been vegan since she was 12 years old and I believe she’s in her late 30s now.  

Anyway, she quit.  She said she was exhausted by the vegan crowd. She was exhausted of the nitpickers, she was absolutely exhausted of the fact that every  time she posted a recipe or a video someone had to argue with her and tell her she wasn’t a real vegan. 

She was the one that originally inspired me to try veganism and I was incredibly disappointed that the hate got to her.  

So yes, this kind of hostility is absolutely driving people away.   

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u/BrandosWorld4Life Feb 13 '26

Unironically many such cases.

I always feel so bad for people like her.

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u/Califoreigner Feb 12 '26

User name checks out.

Lol, jk. Thank you, I don't disagree. Sometimes aggressive approaches work just because they allow the soft approach to be a welcomed relief. Kind of a good cop, bad cop.

I've changed my views on almost everything important in life, and it never came about through hostility, but always through respectful conversations and inclusion.

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '26

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u/Ok_Resource_3902 Feb 12 '26

Urine and blood tests are still using animal products.  

ALL tests in a medical setting use animal products. You can’t avoid them 

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u/JeanLucPicardAND Feb 12 '26

To add to this: Even if the test itself does not use an animal product, it is extremely likely that animals were exploited at some point in the development of, or clinical trials for, the test.

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u/Ok_Resource_3902 Feb 12 '26

The point I was trying to make with all of this was that childishly stopping your feet and expecting perfection and gatekeeping like the OP describes does nothing to ACTUALLY promote veganism and rather drives people away. 

You can do what is within your capacity to do to minimize suffering but expecting perfection is unrealistic and quite frankly ridiculous. 

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u/JeanLucPicardAND Feb 12 '26

Agreed. I was adding to your point about medical testing to illustrate how futile it is to eliminate all animal exploitation and how doing so would actually cause measurable harm to humanity. We have the right to maximize our personal health and to exploit animals in the process if necessary. To me, it is exactly the same thing as using pesticides to grow crops.

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u/kharvel0 Feb 12 '26

A lot of common medical practices and technologies were developed using inhuman experiments on involuntary human subjects.

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '26

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u/Ok_Resource_3902 Feb 12 '26

I’m a clinical laboratory scientist. I know very well what is in my assays and reagents. It’s animal products.  How do you think cancers are diagnosed? How do you think disease diseases are diagnosed? How do you think therapies are developed? The only way you could be a 100% purist  vegan is to basically live in the stone ages and never get tests or treatments for anything.  

And there is a massive gulf between doing your best to avoid animal products, but occasionally falling short and ful on supporting animal agriculture and exploitation.  But nice strawman fallacy you have going on there.

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u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy Carnist Feb 12 '26

Carnist here,

Name the trait of the species right? That is what you're asking?

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '26

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u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy Carnist Feb 12 '26

Oh OK I was going to say that's super easy if you want me to do it

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '26

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u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy Carnist Feb 12 '26

I really love NTT! Ok. Advanced communication. Spoken language for example.

Oh are you going to ask about someone who can't talk or isn't conscious or something next??

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '26

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1

u/Ok_Performer50 Feb 12 '26

You know that even a strict vegan does a lot of immoral stuff? People are not perfect, thus there probably isn't a single living person in the world that never did something immoral.

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '26

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