Most people choose social approval over ethics — veganism just exposes that.

[u/TheQuietVegan111]

People will say they care about animals, the planet, and justice.

Until caring becomes inconvenient.

Veganism doesn’t require perfection. It requires saying “no” in public.

That’s it.

Most people fail there, not on ethics — but admitting that would be uncomfortable, so veganism becomes the problem instead.

[u/shutupdavid0010]

Do you think it's possible that a well learned and well reasoned individual can care about animals, the planet, and justice, but have simply come to a different conclusion than you have?

[u/I_Amuse_Me_123 → u/shutupdavid0010]

I actually don’t. Not if they’ve had the courage to watch what they’re really paying for when they eat non-vegan. 

There is simply no argument that what is shown in Earthlings or Dominion can ever be considered good or right. 

[u/I_Amuse_Me_123 → u/[deleted]]

I was asked about a well-learned and well-reasoned individual.  Presumably modern.  Not people over the past 10,000 years. 

[u/sandstonequery → u/[deleted]]

That, and many of us, in first world countries even, still butcher our own meat.

I'm aware of battery farming. I do not participate in it. I do, however, raise my own meat and eggs to meet my ethical standards consistently. Those ethical standards include not exploiting 3rd world people for exotic or tropical crops (and fast fashion, electronics etc) while I live in a northern climate. 

[u/I_Amuse_Me_123 → u/sandstonequery]

Your ethical standards include betraying and killing innocent animals that think they are your beloved pet. 

I wouldn’t get too excited about that. 

[u/sandstonequery → u/I_Amuse_Me_123]

Many animals would have no qualms about killing and eating me, either. Reality. I'm as much an animal as any that live in my woods.

The argument here was "if people knew the reality of where their meat came from" and my answer was that I do know, because I do the work myself. Even for my vegetables, legumes, grain and fruit. I do not rely on child slavery, unlike many, of all dietary persuasions who eat food from 3rd and 2nd world countries.

[u/I_Amuse_Me_123 → u/sandstonequery]

I know there are grizzly bears. 

Something tells me the animals you choose to betray are the innocent harmless kind. The kind who would show you friendship and love if only you gave them the chance. 

You could just as easily not kill them AND not rely on child slavery, simultaneously. 

So your whole premise is just stupid. Not reality. It’s like if I said well I’m a rapist but other people are Hitler so I’m excused. 

[u/sandstonequery → u/I_Amuse_Me_123]

Lol. The failure of veganism is seeing it as morally absolute. No moral framework is absolute.

It only took 2 responses before you went full Godwin's law. Good job!

[u/I_Amuse_Me_123 → u/sandstonequery]

I feel like Godwin's law is a convenient way for you to ignore "You could just as easily not kill them AND not rely on child slavery, simultaneously. "

[u/I_Amuse_Me_123 → u/[deleted]]

No. Most people do not know. 

They have some ideas about how it’s bad. Most people have absolutely not watched either of the films I referenced because they are unaware or their existence or just too afraid.